New GE Dishwasher Line

[norgeway]

I dont give a hoot!

If its quiet, I would rather it be finished in 45 minutes and the dishes come out clean....like an old single arm Kitchen Aid!and who cares if it uses 15 gallons of water, thats cheaper than 2 hours of electricity, I wish someone would bring back a real dishwasher!

 

[washer111]

Actually:

If one considers that the old KA machines used a 1/2 HP motor (300watts), if I do a cost comparison I get the following versus a modern machine with, say, a 100w motor (probably too powerful!):

<ul>
<li>45minute KA cycle = 3/4 of an hour = (.3 x .22) x .75 = 0.0495 or around 4.95cents at my electrical rates (22c/kW/h) + 15 Gallons of water + Heating of this water in your water heater</li>
<li>2 Hour "Modern" cycle = 2 x 100W/h = .2kW/h = .2 x .22 = 0.044 or around 4.40 cents at my electrical rates. Less water used from water heater, but machine may heat its own</li>
</ul>
However, if someone could provide actual specs for a New machine versus an old KA machine (for example), then we can calculate that again. 

 

But getting on topic: I think the bottle wash is a cheap idea. Really how many parents are there in the market, and how many CARE for this feature? Not even an older machine could achieve these results. 

This is just another gimmick to encourage people into newer machines, much like those new Frigidaire OrbitClean's with 'Sahara-Dry.'

 

[tomturbomatic]

Thanks for the videos

I remember unloading our Mobile Maid with the pink interior one morning and noticing that my sister's bottles were not cleaned. My father instantly said that it was not a bottle washer, even though we had always had clean baby bottles come out of the machine. Then I looked over and saw that mom had not closed the top of the detergent dispenser and that was why the bottles were not cleaned. They were always loaded along the edge of the U-shaped opening in the top rack and except for that one time always were cleaned with no trace of the cooked-on milk.

Did you notice that the upper wash assembly stopped when the lower wash arm started?

Reversing wash arms--I remember the Tappan reverse-a-jet wash arms. I guess you might need this feature if the spray nozzles were too small to create water jets powerful enough to wash both sides of plates as the wash arm rotates. Weak sprays might be the reason why the bottle wash jets are needed. Lawn sprinkler is an apt comparrison.

 

[volsboy1]

two hours for a modern cycle?Not my L.G. it takes at least 3 just to wash but I don't rinse at all.The cost would be much

higher for our house.We have been replacing dishwasher's every 4 years or so when they used to last 14 or more.

When our Maytag went or caught on fire it has been a ever 4 year some times three years when something would burn

out like the motor or control panel.They have been falling apart on us ever sense and now this L.G. is going down the

tubes.Miele is the only new one I would bother with...

 

[henene4]

But what I have to say is that german Miele dishwashers don't have that good reputations as well. We now have BSH dishwashers since, yeah, since we have our kitchen and it is 27 years old. Now we got our 3rd diswasher in there since 2 years and it got 2 PCB's replaced. It is a slimline version so we probably won't get a Miele next (1000€ or more), but probably try ELux, and with that probably IKEA since they provide 5 years warranty for free (good deal at all).

 

[chris74]

I like the bottle spray nozzles

But as always there is no chance to have that here in Germany because present dishwasher builders are rather conservative with new features. Though they do change cycle times and water consumption over the years...

 

[machinehead]

1000 Euros?

This is probably an idiot question, but are Miele's sehr toyer in The Old Country as well as in the States? A lot of currency for something billed as TOL in design and construction...

 

[chris74]

2.000 euros more likely...

...I'd say. Madness!

 

[henene4]

They go from 900 bugs upward up to 2500€ on some of the home modells which are indeed pro modells. But I always thought U.S. applaiences are damn expencive over all. Let's say you buy a dryer for 1000$, and it is vented TOL modell with all whistles and so on. If I pay 1000€, I get the best Miele condensor dryer, or, the 111 Edition heatpump dryer, or any other TOL heatpump dryer, for 750€ representing 1000$, I would get the matching Panasonic heatpump dryer to our washer. A 800$ SpeedQueen BOL modell I think coasts as much as the average washer sold here.

 

[chris74]

You'll have to admit...

...that there are BOL washers for 200 Euros, too.

 

[henene4]

I generally talked about Miele. But I never found a brand new dryer for 300$. I mean, the US is expensive, the EU not that much. It can be, but mussnt.

 

[chris74]

Míele

Has always been more expensive than other brands, regardless of origin.

 

[henene4]

Yeah, but US machienes are ALL, no matter if E.Lux, Samsung, LG or others more expensive. And that means, a TOL US dryer coasts more then a TOL dryer here in the EU.

 

[foraloysius]

Could you define that please? What is TOL? And how can you compare European dryers with American dryers? They are not the same, American dryers are much bigger.

 

[henene4]

Of course, but on the other hand, EU dryers are way more complicated in terms of construction and they need way more electronical components as long as we talk about codensor/heatpump dryers.
TOL=Top p the line
BOL= Bottom of the line
And even if you compare dishwashers: A Standard US diswasher may coast as much as German modell, but the german ones already have a watersoftener, a special heater intergrated into the pump etc. The most expensive Bosch coasts 1000€, the TOL Bosch in the US 1500$, 1140€ today, and it hasn't features like Zeolith, The lcd screen and so on.

 

[foraloysius]

I know what TOL and BOL means. I wondered what features make a dryer a TOL and what they lack if you want to call it a BOL.

It's hard to compare TOL dryers, perhaps it's easier to compare BOL ones, although it's still comparing apples and pears.

As for the Bosch dishwashers, the TOL model in the Netherlands is 1499 euros. The TOL USA model is 1499 dollars. Maybe less features, but the most expensive American model is way cheaper than the most expensive Dutch model.

 

[henene4]

It is taged 1379€ on the Bosch site, but every store sells it for 999€.
What makes a dryer TOL? The same things that make washers TOL: Efficency, Capacity, Cycles and Options. Even with BOL: The very basic BOL Indesit condensor dryer coast, lets say, 300€, should be arround that. Lets take 2 of them for the same capacity: 600€. Now a standard BOL, lets say, GE dryer (I think should match in quality...):549$. But has it a display to show time remainig? No. Jeans cycle? No. Delay start? Nope. If you want that, you have to pay 900$. And then, again, these are vented dryers. Thats nothing more then a heater, a drum, a motor and some sensors with a little calculator conected.
And thats not comparing apples with pears, then you couldn't even compare yours dishwashers with our dishwashers. I don't see why that's uncomparable...
And what are these features the US ones miss? These expencive features: Zeolith, the LCD-Display, uses 60kw/h and 600l water more each year. Ok, have to admit fits 2 place settings more, but, has nearly the same interior racking, so, how does this work?

 

[foraloysius]

Zeolith expensive? Perhaps Bosch charges a lot for it, but basically it's nothing more than a sort of clay!

If you compare prices, then compare them on similar sites. I used both the Dutch and the American Bosch sites.

What do you mean by " then you couldn't even compare yours dishwashers with our dishwashers."? I'm in Europe too! I assume you mean between European and American dishwashers?

Why are condenser dryers cheaper in Europe cheap? That's because they are very popular here, so they can be manufactured for a low price. If they were more popular in the USA, they would be cheaper there too.

Water and electricity are way more expensive in Europe than in the USA. A little less efficient is hardly interesting.

I can compare too:

Cheap American dryer:

http://www.sears.com/kenmore-6.5-cu...p-02661402000P?prdNo=2&blockNo=2&blockType=G2

Cheap European dryer:

http://www.mediamarkt.de/mcs/product/BOMANN-WT-5016,48353,459522,582367.html?langId=-3

The American dryer is much bigger and has a bigger heating element.

Perhaps it makes more sense to compare what the average European pays for a dryer and what an average American does.

 

[henene4]

Zeolith is a really nothing expensive AS IT SELF. And no, it is not clay, it si a mineral. BUT dishwashers with Zeolith are more expensive then these without.
Yeah, I know that you life here, too. Bzt the US is just a state as any other. So, the Netherlands are a nother state the Germany, too. These are the same things you criticesd, didn't you?
Yeah, and vented dryers are the most common type in the US, condensors the most common ones in the EU. Take a vented dryer, and they are even cheaper. I couldn't see how much the Kenmore coast, but it should be arround the same price. And just because it is bigger: How much coasts a kg of copper or tungsten or whatever is used for electrical heating elements. Mow take a 10 of it as you dont need that much for a double sized heater. Some steel (the drum of the kenmore isn't even stainless steel). And you are at approx the same size. And as you said, condesor dryers are cheaper because they are more common the vented ones. Now bigger heaters and drums are also more common on th US market, so they are cheaper, too.
And no, it doesen't make more sense to compare what they paid for there dryers: You know the price-for-value system I guess. Now take the same price and compare the value or take the same value and compare the price. See:

This is the cheapest full size vented dryer Amazon has:
http://www.amazon.de/PKM-WT6-15C-Ab..._3?s=appliances&ie=UTF8&qid=1378237256&sr=1-3

On amzon US, this is the cheapest dryer thes have:
http://www.amazon.com/Amana-NED4600...3?s=appliances&ie=UTF8&qid=1378237452&sr=1-23

Now, we have ones 220€ for the PKM and approx 280€ for the Amana. Now look at the control panel: The PKM has more features and options , while the Amana has a bigger heater and drum. Now they are both approx the same money for value.

 

[henene4]

Lets move on to mid range dryers.
A normal, brand named vented dryer in Germany:
http://www.amazon.de/AEG-T75175AV-A...7?s=appliances&ie=UTF8&qid=1378237728&sr=1-27

And in the US:
http://www.amazon.com/Maytag-MEDX60...0?s=appliances&ie=UTF8&qid=1378237766&sr=1-50

Now again, the US modell is arround 50€ more expensive the the German modell.
And if you look closer, the modells are nearly the same heigth on options etc. while the US modell is again bigger. Again, nearly the same price-for-value, US just slightly ahead.