New line of Kenmore dishwashers...

[re563]

Thanks Appnut:

I've looked through the manual. I asked because in my manual for my bosch it has a cycle chart similar to what's in the manual. Mine makes no mention of an initial pump/out drain, but it does one for 15 seconds before it start's to fill for the soil purge at the very beginning of the cycle. So since these wash systems are based off of European types, I thought maybe the Ultra Wash HE did the same.

 

[magic clean]

There can be a brief

pump out at the beginning of a cycle with a Kenmore, KitchenAid, Whirlpool or Jennair HE dishwasher. All it requires is enough residual water to submerge the soil sensor and it will initiate a drain. This water can collect from the condensation drying & if you spill enough into the machine while loading the next dirty load. The soil sensor also signals to the control when to stop draining when the sump is empty. So it will abbreviate the drain mode when possible.

I run my machine with unrinsed and lightly scraped loads. The incoming water is about 125f, if I run the faucet. Otherwise the 1st fill is at room temp. We use the Smart Wash cycle with Turbo Zone & heated dry options enabled; generally it takes about 135 to 150 minutes. The control usually runs this sequence: Prewash, Rinse, Main Wash, pulsed rinse & final rinse. About 5 gallons of water consumed. If the Turbo Zone is not selected and/or there is lighter soil, it will skip the 2nd fill.

For the heck of it, I'll run a PNP, T-Zone, Steam Sanitize & heated dry to see just how long it'll go.

I check the filter monthly & mostly there is not much there. There is some residue on the fine screen that is easily rinsed away. You'll find solid bits of waste in the coarse strainer. I.E. green beans, bread bag tab closures, bone slivers etc. We've not experienced any unpleasant odors. Good enzyme detergent prevents that.

 

[magic clean]

O.K. ran a nasty load

on Pots & Pans with the following options chosen; Turbo Zone, Hi-Temp, Steam sanitize & heated dry. Started at 7:30 p.m., just turned on the cycle complete indicator @ 11:22 p.m. So that is just shy of 4 hours.

The cycle sequence: Prewash, rinse, main wash, full rinse, final sani rinse & dry. 6 gallons used.

 

[appnut]

A couple of points of interest on the new line. Only the top model, thus far future available, has Quick Rinse (or Rinse & Hold). The rest of the new line doesn't . The top two models have Smart Dry, which also includes FAN ASSISTED drying!!! I'm still not convinced about normal wash temp being 105 degrees and high-temp wash option being 120 degrees can be effective. And with phosphates ging away... There's gonna have to be more enzymes put in detergents since they do better at lower temps.

 

[magic clean]

Bob

the lower wash temps have been around now for 4+ years. It does fine. In fact there are several benefits to using a lower temp. I know its hard to get your mind wrapped around this, but it does work. I'm using phosphate free Cascade action packs at the moment and the cleaning has been equal to the phosphated version. That said, the water here is not that hard. It helps to use good detergents too.

 

[frigilux]

Lower wash temps: The "Quick" cycle on my LG uses a 104 degree wash, so I'm not surprised to learn that lower temps have moved into "Normal" cycles.

You'll notice in the top photo in Reply #26 (thanks for the links, Logixx) there is a "High Temp" option as well as a "Sani Rinse" option. I'm assuming the high temp setting boosts the wash temp to 120-140 degrees.

Leslie---glad to know someone else is getting good results with the new phosphate-free Cascade products in soft water. And as with other major changes in product formulation, the chemists at Cascade will probably be tweaking the formula to make it work better in hard water over the next few months.

 

[appnut]

Eugene, the high-temp option moves the set-point for the main wash to 120 degrees. The final rinse is 140 degrees, unless Sani-Rinse is selected.

 

[re563]

I have been using Great Value dishwasher detergent (Phosphate free) in my bosch with great results. I never rines, just scrape my dishes before going into the dishwasher. For the price I can't see me buying Cascade again, tho It has been my favorite for years, and years.

 

[logixx]

Same in Europe: the wash temps for the Energy Saving cycle (which has to remove spinach, milk, tea, ground meat and egg dried onto the dishes at 176°F) usually runs at 113 or 122°F. Bosch/Siemens (Europe) recently introduced their "Eco Pots&Pans" cycle that runs the main wash at 113°F. They say it's intended to be used with the newest generation of detergents from Somat or Finish that will clean / are activated even in 104°F water.

Am wondering where that Steam Sanitize option went. With the heating element almost touching the bottom of the tub, it would be easy to just fill some water in the sump and then start heating.

Thanks for running that super-heavy P&P, magic_clean. Was just looking at some Bosch/Siemens dishwasher (our Euro versions) and their 158°F Intensive cycle runs 2:20 hrs with sani rinse. I wonder what exactly causes that four hour cycle.

Alex

 

[magic clean]

Alex

about an hour and half was alotted to the main wash. The T-Z option added 20 minutes or so. That accounts for a long wash. Then the steam final rinse takes another 35-45 minutes. Plus you've got dry time.

We always use Smart wash with T-Z & heated dry. The machine gets everything clean & dry in 2 to 2.5 hours depending on the soil level and load size. Generally we run the machine in the evening and unload the next day. So the longer cycle times are of no consequence. Especially since the machine is very quiet. You really only hear it when it drains....the sink gurgles. Otherwise you forget the machine is on.

If we are pressed for time the 1 hour cycle does fine too. Just not as water efficient.

 

[jerrod6]

Alex

What versions of DW detergents from Somat and Finish are designed to clean at 104F or 113F?

 

[peteski50]

New line of Kenmore dishwashers!

I personallly would not want this dishwasher for 2 reasons. I want a 140 degree wash cycle and these long long cycles are idiotic. Also I dont care how the new detergents work I want to have control over the cycle selection. (Bring back the older designs)!
Peter

 

[logixx]

Leslie,

I see, thanks. I suppose these dishwashers would be a lot faster if they could have more powerful heating elements. Our sanitary rinse just takes 15 minutes.

Jerrod,

Somat 7 and Somat 9 have a "Low Temperature Activator" claim right on the front of the box. It says "Thanks to the low-temp activator you can clean your dishes at 40°C, which is gentle on your dishes and glasses whilst saving energy."

Bosch/Siemens "recommends" (= promotes) Finish All-in-1 and Quantum.

 

[pierreandreply4]

i think that on these models you also need to use the high temp option with the chosen cycle.

 

[jerrod6]

Thanks Alex

I have not seen SOMAT 7 or 9 available for the USA, but I do use Finish All-in 1 and Quantum. Do these detergents in the EU contain phosphates?

 

[logixx]

The main ingredient in Somat is Pentasodium Triphosphote. Can't find the ingredients for Finish now but I think it has phosphates, too.

 

[jerrod6]

I checked a box of Finish all in 1 non phosphate tabs and it recommends a temperature of 125F to 140F so I guess it is not intended to be used at 104F or 113F. I used it today to clean a full load of dishes with stuck on dried potatoes, egg and greasy stuff - with excellent results - although I don't know what temperature was used in the wash. Some the newer Dw have longish programs so perhaps that is going to be required if you use a temp of 104F and non phosphate detergent.

 

[logixx]

Just checked all the boxes of dishwasher detergent in the local super market and they all have ">30% phosphates" - except for Ecover.

 

[1972lkdishwash]

My 2010 Ultra Wash Ken. Dishwasher, NEW

OMG! I hope that it is built by Whirlpool, has a big wash impellar, on bottom,#1774, model to be built in, in place. For my Mother's kitchen, hope this one has a filter and cleans very well. She plans on loading it from the breakfast t, direct, and just scrape off, maybe not so much pre-scraping. After reading all of these, and the TOL Elite Kenmores,@$1700.00, glad we spent $750.00 and thought we had a good Cleaner, HOPE SO....WORRIED ABOUT THIS PURCHASE and I took out the 5 year warranty with it. My Mother is 93 and has Help, but wanted one that was Easy to USE, and load, touch cycle buttons on front. I Read that it was very efficient for Cleaning and made by Whirlpool....HELP..!!!

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[appnut]

Calm down Harold!! It's a whirlpool produced product. And it has the OLD (ha ha) UntraWash system (like my 3 year old Kenmore Elite) that has a soft food disposer.