thank you all very much for all the help. I'd love to be able to select wash temperature by actual water temperature--same with spin speed. but the average U.s. consumer is probably too dumb or just programmed for all cold water washing.
New Miele W1/T1 coming soon for US market
- Thread starter mielerod69
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@launderess, happy to pass on info learned from THS! As mentioned up thread, thought it was interesting Miele actually tailored this series to the American consumer, some.
@appnut, agreed, it’s nice to be able to select the exact temp instead of relying on what the manufacturer decides is said temp and keeping the actual figures a secret.
“but the average U.s. consumer is probably too dumb or just programmed for all cold water washing.”
That’s usually been my assumption as to the reason companies like Miele don’t offer all of the features they do in other parts of the world. Even my Little Giants don’t offer all of the options that are available in European models. Though I think the US obsession with litigation plays a part too.
@appnut, agreed, it’s nice to be able to select the exact temp instead of relying on what the manufacturer decides is said temp and keeping the actual figures a secret.
“but the average U.s. consumer is probably too dumb or just programmed for all cold water washing.”
That’s usually been my assumption as to the reason companies like Miele don’t offer all of the features they do in other parts of the world. Even my Little Giants don’t offer all of the options that are available in European models. Though I think the US obsession with litigation plays a part too.
launderess
Well-known member
It isn't all rainbows and unicorns with regard to cycles
You have heavy, normal and light soiling level options.
Heavy adds a pre-wash, but then you must use a liquid detergent, twindos or those caps.
If using pre-wash then one cannot use chlorine bleach.
[this post was last edited: 1/6/2018-06:36]
You have heavy, normal and light soiling level options.
Heavy adds a pre-wash, but then you must use a liquid detergent, twindos or those caps.
If using pre-wash then one cannot use chlorine bleach.
[this post was last edited: 1/6/2018-06:36]
launderess
Well-known member
Now the dryers may be a game changer
For many that until now have relied upon Whirlpool/Kenmore or other "compact" vented dryers. Here you'll have something in these heat pump dryers that takes a full wash load (8kgs/17.6lbs from matching washer) and will dry using a standard 120v/15amp circuit.
Have been through manuals for both dryers listed above and neither gives any sort of range of drying times. There is the standard advice for all condenser dryers about spinning wash at highest final rpms possible to remove much water as possible. Miele states that spinning at 1600rpms will save have an energy savings of 20% moisture versus 1000rpms.
Amps x volts gives us total watts. That means in theory max draw for these dryers is 1800 watts. But don't think they'll pull anywhere near. So in end will have a condenser type dryer that pulls nearly what my vintage Whirlpool with a 1400 watt heater does.
For many that until now have relied upon Whirlpool/Kenmore or other "compact" vented dryers. Here you'll have something in these heat pump dryers that takes a full wash load (8kgs/17.6lbs from matching washer) and will dry using a standard 120v/15amp circuit.
Have been through manuals for both dryers listed above and neither gives any sort of range of drying times. There is the standard advice for all condenser dryers about spinning wash at highest final rpms possible to remove much water as possible. Miele states that spinning at 1600rpms will save have an energy savings of 20% moisture versus 1000rpms.
Amps x volts gives us total watts. That means in theory max draw for these dryers is 1800 watts. But don't think they'll pull anywhere near. So in end will have a condenser type dryer that pulls nearly what my vintage Whirlpool with a 1400 watt heater does.
jerrod6
Well-known member
The restrictions regarding the prewash and chlorine bleach are the same as those on the 30XX machines which allow chlorine bleach, probably because they are using the same dispenser compartment for both.
If I was doing a prewash I would just dump the amount of whatever I want into the drum before starting the cycle( which is what I do now) and not bother with the prewash dispenser cup.
So far I am pleased with this offering and if I didn't have natural gas for drying I would consider the dryer.
If anyone is getting one of these please share your experience with us.
If I was doing a prewash I would just dump the amount of whatever I want into the drum before starting the cycle( which is what I do now) and not bother with the prewash dispenser cup.
So far I am pleased with this offering and if I didn't have natural gas for drying I would consider the dryer.
If anyone is getting one of these please share your experience with us.
rolls_rapide
Well-known member
Reply #16
I found it interesting that www.test.de lists the "Maximum liquor temperature in the 60°C label programme". (Near the bottom of the test tables; scroll down. Some machines don't have this, I assume they were tested before this parameter was introduced).
And boy, are there some revelations!
The Candy Grand-O achieves 51°C. (Hoover/Candy was previously slated by UK Which? for washing at 43°C temperatures).
The Panasonic NA-148XRW gets to 38°C. (A footnote says no longer available).
And the AEG L8FE74485 has a maximum temperature of... (fanfare)... 26°C!
Ye Gods!
http://https//www.test.de/Waschmasc...ersteller^Candy|AEG|Panasonic&sort=hersteller
I found it interesting that www.test.de lists the "Maximum liquor temperature in the 60°C label programme". (Near the bottom of the test tables; scroll down. Some machines don't have this, I assume they were tested before this parameter was introduced).
And boy, are there some revelations!
The Candy Grand-O achieves 51°C. (Hoover/Candy was previously slated by UK Which? for washing at 43°C temperatures).
The Panasonic NA-148XRW gets to 38°C. (A footnote says no longer available).
And the AEG L8FE74485 has a maximum temperature of... (fanfare)... 26°C!
Ye Gods!
http://https//www.test.de/Waschmasc...ersteller^Candy|AEG|Panasonic&sort=hersteller
Laundress
Drying times are about an hour give or take for a 4kg/8lbs load, more towards longer though. A full load should take about 130min, or about 2h give or take, given that the load comes from a matching washer.
That however is for the Cotton cycle. Some cycles can take far longer in relation to load size. The denims cycle is excellent (our old Miele dried all jeans extremly carefully, but even mangaed to get the thickest seams completly dry), but takes about 2h for a half load.
But then again, even the fullest loads use less the 2kWh and dry incredibly gently.
Given that for a full 8kg load, you really would be stuffing the drum of both washer and dryer, half load scenarios are more likely to be common.
The QuickIntense wash should blow most peoples socks away. If they didn't tinker much with that cycle, it should give A-class wash results to EU standards with loads up to about 10 pounds.
10 pounds would be equal to a loosely filled drum. The drum volume should be in the corner of 2.2-2.4cuft on the washer.
The prewash compartment has a permanently installed syphon for use with bleach.
Given that the bleaching option is supposed to add 10min of wash time, I am wondering if the normal Cotton cycles even have been altered much or if they still are the 2h monsters we over here have.
The Eco cycles of Mieles over here do limit their heating. PowerWash 2.0 however does somewhat offset the need for reduced heating temperatures across the board. But that technology does appear to not be implemented on the US versions.
Drying times are about an hour give or take for a 4kg/8lbs load, more towards longer though. A full load should take about 130min, or about 2h give or take, given that the load comes from a matching washer.
That however is for the Cotton cycle. Some cycles can take far longer in relation to load size. The denims cycle is excellent (our old Miele dried all jeans extremly carefully, but even mangaed to get the thickest seams completly dry), but takes about 2h for a half load.
But then again, even the fullest loads use less the 2kWh and dry incredibly gently.
Given that for a full 8kg load, you really would be stuffing the drum of both washer and dryer, half load scenarios are more likely to be common.
The QuickIntense wash should blow most peoples socks away. If they didn't tinker much with that cycle, it should give A-class wash results to EU standards with loads up to about 10 pounds.
10 pounds would be equal to a loosely filled drum. The drum volume should be in the corner of 2.2-2.4cuft on the washer.
The prewash compartment has a permanently installed syphon for use with bleach.
Given that the bleaching option is supposed to add 10min of wash time, I am wondering if the normal Cotton cycles even have been altered much or if they still are the 2h monsters we over here have.
The Eco cycles of Mieles over here do limit their heating. PowerWash 2.0 however does somewhat offset the need for reduced heating temperatures across the board. But that technology does appear to not be implemented on the US versions.
launderess
Well-known member
launderess
Well-known member
The European Miele ones only draw 1,100 watts
Don't see how that would work in USA.
From THS gleaned the washer's heating power is 1050 watts. You can only pull 1800 from a 120v/60amp circuit and that is total which would leave about 750w for dryer.
This matters since Miele as usual markets the W&D as set meaning both in theory could be in operation at same time and circuit. Something therefore must give power wise and cannot see drawing full power (1800w) for the three or whatever hours it takes to complete cycles.
Of course once the washer heats water and thermostat is satisfied that should be it far as that power draw is concerned.
Don't see how that would work in USA.
From THS gleaned the washer's heating power is 1050 watts. You can only pull 1800 from a 120v/60amp circuit and that is total which would leave about 750w for dryer.
This matters since Miele as usual markets the W&D as set meaning both in theory could be in operation at same time and circuit. Something therefore must give power wise and cannot see drawing full power (1800w) for the three or whatever hours it takes to complete cycles.
Of course once the washer heats water and thermostat is satisfied that should be it far as that power draw is concerned.
Heatpump usage
The power draw by the dryer should be activley regulated, with 1000W being worst case. Normal running power should be lower then that.
The power draw by the dryer should be activley regulated, with 1000W being worst case. Normal running power should be lower then that.
A glance at the installation instructions in the dryer manual shows that Miele will sell a connection adapter. It will convert a 4-prong dryer outlet into two regular 15 amp outlets.
launderess
Well-known member
Which is what one meant
Cannot see how two appliances pulling nearly 1000 watts each can go on same circuit to run at once. Something has to give some where.
Cannot see how two appliances pulling nearly 1000 watts each can go on same circuit to run at once. Something has to give some where.
brisnat81
Well-known member
You need to remember that whilst an individual appliance is limited to roughly 1800 watts the circuit isn’t necessarily the same. In AU we plug a 2400 watt washer and 2400 watt dryer into a circuit shared with the kitchen, dishwasher at 2300 watts that is 240v 20amps for a total of 4800 watts capacity. For years I ran a 1970s 3200watt Miele and 1990s 2400watt Miele and and 2000 watt iron and 2000 watt dryer on a 15amp 240v circuit at Michaels mums. As long as the elements were all cycling on and off at different times and intervals, it was never a problem.
A 120v 20amp circuit should be capable of supporting 2400watts over the entire circuit, that is less than both machines theoretically pull. Aren’t modern houses by code in the US required to have a dedicated 20amp circuit for the laundry? I realize the 80% loading rule, but none of these appliances continuously pull maximum wattage.
We regularly can pull over 6.5kw over a circuit rated for 4800watts. A breaker doesn’t trip the second it hits the maximum capacity there is usually a delay that varies based on how big the overload is. With resistive heating The load will always cycle, so the washer won’t pull maximum wattage for 30 minutes if it’s hot and cold fill.
A 120v 20amp circuit should be capable of supporting 2400watts over the entire circuit, that is less than both machines theoretically pull. Aren’t modern houses by code in the US required to have a dedicated 20amp circuit for the laundry? I realize the 80% loading rule, but none of these appliances continuously pull maximum wattage.
We regularly can pull over 6.5kw over a circuit rated for 4800watts. A breaker doesn’t trip the second it hits the maximum capacity there is usually a delay that varies based on how big the overload is. With resistive heating The load will always cycle, so the washer won’t pull maximum wattage for 30 minutes if it’s hot and cold fill.
launderess
Well-known member
Yes love,
But the Miele plugs for USA are 120v/15amp, which means much less power.
15 amp at 120v gives total of 1800 watts. While the same amps at 20 goes up to 2400 watts.
At least here you can plug a 15amp 120v plug into a 20amp socket, but not vice versa. If Miele is specifying a 15 amp power supply one assumes that is what people are going to move with.
Twenty amp circuits on 120v are normally used for air conditioners and refrigerators, in fact IIRC code may specify such. Think it is due to the amount of power such things draw and or at start-up. Such "dedicated" circuits however usually aren't supposed to have anything else going at same time.
One assumes all this palaver comes from Miele now being totally gun shy about deviating from the standard American 120v power supply found in a majority of American homes. Having tried for years to get Americans to come around to 120v/220v "dryer" plugs and seeing their sales not move much (for washing machines), they've given up that track mostly except for the professional/commercial lines.
But the Miele plugs for USA are 120v/15amp, which means much less power.
15 amp at 120v gives total of 1800 watts. While the same amps at 20 goes up to 2400 watts.
At least here you can plug a 15amp 120v plug into a 20amp socket, but not vice versa. If Miele is specifying a 15 amp power supply one assumes that is what people are going to move with.
Twenty amp circuits on 120v are normally used for air conditioners and refrigerators, in fact IIRC code may specify such. Think it is due to the amount of power such things draw and or at start-up. Such "dedicated" circuits however usually aren't supposed to have anything else going at same time.
One assumes all this palaver comes from Miele now being totally gun shy about deviating from the standard American 120v power supply found in a majority of American homes. Having tried for years to get Americans to come around to 120v/220v "dryer" plugs and seeing their sales not move much (for washing machines), they've given up that track mostly except for the professional/commercial lines.
brisnat81
Well-known member
Modern US circuits might have 15 amp plugs, but that doesn’t mean the breaker is 15 amps. The modern US standard is 12 guage 20 amp, 120v. The laundry area should have at least one of these dedicated.
Our circuits are 20 amps but the outlets and plugs are each only 10.
It’s the wire gauge that sets the circuit breaker size, not necessarily the outlet on the wall
If all circuits were only 15 amp then you’d be pressed to plug two appliances in over 4 or 5 duplex outlets.
You should be able to plug the 15 amp washer and 15 amp dryer into a duplex outlet with 15 amp sockets that is wired on a 20amp circuit and have no issue at all. I grant you that both on a duplex outlet wired with 14guage and a 15 amp breaker you may be in trouble.
http://https//www.thespruce.com/matching-wire-size-to-circuit-amperage-1152865
Our circuits are 20 amps but the outlets and plugs are each only 10.
It’s the wire gauge that sets the circuit breaker size, not necessarily the outlet on the wall
If all circuits were only 15 amp then you’d be pressed to plug two appliances in over 4 or 5 duplex outlets.
You should be able to plug the 15 amp washer and 15 amp dryer into a duplex outlet with 15 amp sockets that is wired on a 20amp circuit and have no issue at all. I grant you that both on a duplex outlet wired with 14guage and a 15 amp breaker you may be in trouble.
http://https//www.thespruce.com/matching-wire-size-to-circuit-amperage-1152865
launderess
Well-known member
Yes, but that's assuming machines will go into
a dedicated "laundry area". Ours has no such thing nor do many older or even relatively modern NYC apartments.
Yes, it is the fuse/circuit breaker that will determine total amps that can be drawn. Equally yes, it is possible a wall socket is wired to a 20 amp circuit even though it has a 15amp plug.
a dedicated "laundry area". Ours has no such thing nor do many older or even relatively modern NYC apartments.
Yes, it is the fuse/circuit breaker that will determine total amps that can be drawn. Equally yes, it is possible a wall socket is wired to a 20 amp circuit even though it has a 15amp plug.
My laundry area has a dedicated 20 amp 120v outlet and a dedicated 30 amp 240 dryer circuit. If the converter is used, wouldn't that technically be two 30 amp 120v circuits that are limited by the built in fuses (15amp iirc) ?
launderess
Well-known member
From manual
The dryer is equipped with a power
cord 6' 7" (2 m) with plug. The dryer is
connected to a NEMA 5-15 socket with
an electrical connection of 120 V,
60 Hz, 15 A.
If a NEMA 14-30 socket is
provided on-site for the dryer, the
Miele connection adapter* can be
used."
Observe the following description to
avoid damage to the dryer.
Tip: You can order the connection
adapter directly from Miele (USA or CDN).
–
The connection adapter has a NEMA
14-30 plug and two NEMA 5-15
socket-side connectors. The dryer
and washing machine can therefore
be connected to the 120 V / 60 Hz
electricity supply.
– The connection adapter is equipped
with two 15 A fuses which protect
both the connected appliances and
the connection adapter.
Washer:
ELECTRICAL INSTRUCTIONS
This installation should be performed by
an experienced and qualified
technician, in accordance with local
codes and regulations.
The washing machine is supplied with a
5’ 3" (1.6 m) long, 3 wire cord, ending in
a NEMA 5-15P plug, ready for
connection to a 120 V, 15 A, 60 Hz, AC
power supply.
The proper outlet can be purchased
from an electrical supply dealer
The dryer is equipped with a power
cord 6' 7" (2 m) with plug. The dryer is
connected to a NEMA 5-15 socket with
an electrical connection of 120 V,
60 Hz, 15 A.
If a NEMA 14-30 socket is
provided on-site for the dryer, the
Miele connection adapter* can be
used."
Observe the following description to
avoid damage to the dryer.
Tip: You can order the connection
adapter directly from Miele (USA or CDN).
–
The connection adapter has a NEMA
14-30 plug and two NEMA 5-15
socket-side connectors. The dryer
and washing machine can therefore
be connected to the 120 V / 60 Hz
electricity supply.
– The connection adapter is equipped
with two 15 A fuses which protect
both the connected appliances and
the connection adapter.
Washer:
ELECTRICAL INSTRUCTIONS
This installation should be performed by
an experienced and qualified
technician, in accordance with local
codes and regulations.
The washing machine is supplied with a
5’ 3" (1.6 m) long, 3 wire cord, ending in
a NEMA 5-15P plug, ready for
connection to a 120 V, 15 A, 60 Hz, AC
power supply.
The proper outlet can be purchased
from an electrical supply dealer
rolls_rapide
Well-known member
With all that adapter carry on...
Thank Heaven for our 240v, 13a ring main system. Less hassle all round.
Thank Heaven for our 240v, 13a ring main system. Less hassle all round.
My laundry is just 20A 230V radial on a dedicated RCBO (combined breaker and GFCI) as per the current regs here.
The T1 draws typically about 700W in use although it's rated maximum 1.1kW
The W1 in the version here can draw up to 2.4kW during heating, so I assume the US version will just have a smaller and thus slower heater.
With any appliances rated for use with a 15 amp plug and socket there's an assumption that the socket can provide the rated power. If it can't, you really need to rewire.
If the two machines cab plug into a single dryer outlet using an adaptor they would make sense but, if you've only 15 amps possible on a single outlet there's no way you can run a washer and a dryer off it!
Also hot fill won't really help that much unless the tank is located right next to the washer as it will fill before it's drawn any hot water. That's been the main reason lower water consumption washers in Europe don't bother with hot fill anymore. All older machines here hooked to hot and cold.
The T1 draws typically about 700W in use although it's rated maximum 1.1kW
The W1 in the version here can draw up to 2.4kW during heating, so I assume the US version will just have a smaller and thus slower heater.
With any appliances rated for use with a 15 amp plug and socket there's an assumption that the socket can provide the rated power. If it can't, you really need to rewire.
If the two machines cab plug into a single dryer outlet using an adaptor they would make sense but, if you've only 15 amps possible on a single outlet there's no way you can run a washer and a dryer off it!
Also hot fill won't really help that much unless the tank is located right next to the washer as it will fill before it's drawn any hot water. That's been the main reason lower water consumption washers in Europe don't bother with hot fill anymore. All older machines here hooked to hot and cold.
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