3.1 gallons / load .... I may let the cats do the dishes ....
Harry
Harry
new rules will allow only 3.1 gallons to be used to wash each load of dishes.
- Thread starter kimball455
- Start date
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Kimball, it is well known that dogs do a better job. I shall start looking for every part that fits my KM Ultra Wash immediately.
I think I'll start stockpiling:
KUDS-23's and parts for them. Will these Green Police Dictators stop at nothing?
WK78
KUDS-23's and parts for them. Will these Green Police Dictators stop at nothing?
WK78
richnz
Well-known member
I wouldn't be surprised if
plates, cups, pots, pans etc had to be downsized also.
Improving the wash performance of most types of pet too?
plates, cups, pots, pans etc had to be downsized also.
Improving the wash performance of most types of pet too?
The Woody Wash Cycle
Woody has started already.
Harry
Woody has started already.
Harry
Its certainly doable.
The main problem is the manufacturers don't seem to have gotten the whole "HE" thing down-pat just yet, unlike the European counterparts, who have been using similar quantities of water for a while now.
And I will cheekily get away with saying "My Dishwasher already uses about half that" (on the Normal/Fast cycles. Heavy and Delicates use more due to the extra post-wash rinse).
The main problem is the manufacturers don't seem to have gotten the whole "HE" thing down-pat just yet, unlike the European counterparts, who have been using similar quantities of water for a while now.
And I will cheekily get away with saying "My Dishwasher already uses about half that" (on the Normal/Fast cycles. Heavy and Delicates use more due to the extra post-wash rinse).
gusherb
Well-known member
Good lord!
Why don't they just cut to the chase and entirely ban the use of water, and electricity already!!
This is my potscrub cycle here:
Why don't they just cut to the chase and entirely ban the use of water, and electricity already!!
This is my potscrub cycle here:
My 1974 Lady Kenmore would not fill a normal single sink so I dont know what the big deal is. Fill that sink up 3X day, wash by hand and who uses more water. A dishwasher used when needed uses much less water no matter how old it it is. But older seems to do a better job cleaning as do washers that dont fill with a cup of water and think a load of clothes are even wet.
I agree with washer111: European dishwashers use a little less and still get the A-class cleaning label that is required for any dish- or clothes washer to be sold. I'm actually surprised that Whirlpool said their 3.1 gallon dishwasher produced horrible results... when the same company sells perfectly fine 1.6 gallon dishwashers over here (using the AquaSense recycling system that one KitchenAid dishwasher also has).
That being said, I like to use a little more water than 3 gallons. Not for actual cleaning purposes, but to make sure all the dirt and detergent has been flushed away.
That being said, I like to use a little more water than 3 gallons. Not for actual cleaning purposes, but to make sure all the dirt and detergent has been flushed away.
My DD (which is almost 12 years old) takes ~2.4 gal on the Fast cycle (3 water changes) but I rarely use it. That's per drawer so 4.8 gals to run both. [this post was last edited: 7/20/2015-22:39]
jerrod6
Well-known member
I doubt that president Obama knows anything about this since the DOE has been on the war path well before he got into office. BUT I am glad someone is pushing back on the DOE. These people need a job so they keep coming up with increased water standards for consumers, overstating their impact, while letting commercial operations do what they want.
My 2006 DW does have a cycle named water saver and I use it every wash during the week except one. Water saver is a wash and two rinses and it takes 1 hour 28 minutes using 3.18 gallons of water. I wash dishes every other day and everything that comes out of this cycle is clean. One day a week on Monday I use the Sensor wash cycle which adds a prewash and uses a higher temp - Today it lasted 2 hours 1 minute. Of course there are other days when I might use a Cheese cycle if I have burned on cheese or something but other than that my dishes get water saver most washes and it cleans.
Still I am glad for the push back because I think things are getting out of control and it is nothing but the folks and the DOE wanting to increase the standards so they can stay employed...and Oh we are paying them too.
My 2006 DW does have a cycle named water saver and I use it every wash during the week except one. Water saver is a wash and two rinses and it takes 1 hour 28 minutes using 3.18 gallons of water. I wash dishes every other day and everything that comes out of this cycle is clean. One day a week on Monday I use the Sensor wash cycle which adds a prewash and uses a higher temp - Today it lasted 2 hours 1 minute. Of course there are other days when I might use a Cheese cycle if I have burned on cheese or something but other than that my dishes get water saver most washes and it cleans.
Still I am glad for the push back because I think things are getting out of control and it is nothing but the folks and the DOE wanting to increase the standards so they can stay employed...and Oh we are paying them too.
Well, perhaps a few tax incentives for the manufacturers could spur some "innovation." It's a good thing they have a lobbying organization ready to negotiate. The legislation is probably already written.
I've got my bucket ready? Anybody's HANDS?!
-- Dave
-- Dave
I'm gonna stockpile too!
Ol' Lonely MT and the spare (new KUDI23) KA still have motors available on repair parts sites. Guess I need to get one of each. Hmmm...18 years so far on MT and still going, plus a new KA, plus a new motor for each...might just make it the rest of my lifetime.
I've said it before...just pee on the dishes and clothes...save water, save heating it, and the ammonia would probably help clean too, not to mention not having to flush the toilet. Hey, I need to work for the DOE or EPA!
Maybe hotels and hospitals should start washing linens and towels after every third customer...imagine how much that could save! Restaurants could start saying," if the dishes look clean, just re-use them".
How much water does a golf course use to water the grass? What about the White House? Then there's all the landscaping at the malls and banks and such. Everytime I go to Walmart at night the sprinklers are spraying...and there's a stream running down the parking lot to the storm drain.
I can be just as silly and stupid as the government can...unfortunately.
Ol' Lonely MT and the spare (new KUDI23) KA still have motors available on repair parts sites. Guess I need to get one of each. Hmmm...18 years so far on MT and still going, plus a new KA, plus a new motor for each...might just make it the rest of my lifetime.
I've said it before...just pee on the dishes and clothes...save water, save heating it, and the ammonia would probably help clean too, not to mention not having to flush the toilet. Hey, I need to work for the DOE or EPA!
Maybe hotels and hospitals should start washing linens and towels after every third customer...imagine how much that could save! Restaurants could start saying," if the dishes look clean, just re-use them".
How much water does a golf course use to water the grass? What about the White House? Then there's all the landscaping at the malls and banks and such. Everytime I go to Walmart at night the sprinklers are spraying...and there's a stream running down the parking lot to the storm drain.
I can be just as silly and stupid as the government can...unfortunately.
3.1 gallons
I am puzzeled, over and over again.
I know you have mostly hot-fill DW. I know your DWs max out at 1,5kW total power draw. I know you all hate HE.
But seriously: 3,1 gal (or about 12l) have been "efficent" here in the early 2000s. 12l have been standard towards the 2005-ish time and today, the cheapest of the cheapest DW sold here run on 12lΛ.1gal.
We have DW that run a 4 fill cycle (Prewash, wash, rinse, final rinse) with as little as 6l (1.6gal) reusing the last final rinse water for the next prewash. (Whirlpool, Electrolux and Bosch use this system, though E-Lux never goes below 8l.)
Some others use like 9l (or 2.3 gal, I guess) without reusing water, either cutting away the pre-wash (Miele) or just reducing fills.
So, it is certanly doable. Especially under the thought of concentrated cleaning.
I am puzzeled, over and over again.
I know you have mostly hot-fill DW. I know your DWs max out at 1,5kW total power draw. I know you all hate HE.
But seriously: 3,1 gal (or about 12l) have been "efficent" here in the early 2000s. 12l have been standard towards the 2005-ish time and today, the cheapest of the cheapest DW sold here run on 12lΛ.1gal.
We have DW that run a 4 fill cycle (Prewash, wash, rinse, final rinse) with as little as 6l (1.6gal) reusing the last final rinse water for the next prewash. (Whirlpool, Electrolux and Bosch use this system, though E-Lux never goes below 8l.)
Some others use like 9l (or 2.3 gal, I guess) without reusing water, either cutting away the pre-wash (Miele) or just reducing fills.
So, it is certanly doable. Especially under the thought of concentrated cleaning.
All I can think of in these situations is how well the latest model PowerCleans would/will do on a Normal cycle. Main Wash-Purge-Final Rinse. About ~2.2 gallons a fill, plus the .3-.4 gallon for the purge, means just below 5 gallons a cycle? And look at how well they do even with dried on soils. Most of the resource saver dishwashers at present still use around 4 gallons if the dishes are ACTUALLY dirty.
Surely this is still required of only the Normal cycle, and the added options and heavier cycles can use more. But still, if Whirlpool could scratch off this current model and pick back up with the PowerClean and start improving from there, we may get somewhere. A low profile pump module that can output just as much pressure, paired with the thinner wash arms and smaller spray jets, and a disposal/self cleaning filter system that can handle normal soils, and you could easily squeeze out only a few gallons a cycle and still have spotless dishes.
Surely this is still required of only the Normal cycle, and the added options and heavier cycles can use more. But still, if Whirlpool could scratch off this current model and pick back up with the PowerClean and start improving from there, we may get somewhere. A low profile pump module that can output just as much pressure, paired with the thinner wash arms and smaller spray jets, and a disposal/self cleaning filter system that can handle normal soils, and you could easily squeeze out only a few gallons a cycle and still have spotless dishes.
jerrod6
Well-known member
I am wondering what DW these guys used to demonstrate that you can't use 3.1 gallons and get clean dishes. I mean do any of the USA manufacturers sell a DW that uses this little water in a cycle now?
One thing here is that the cycle that will use 3.1 gallons will have to be labeled the everyday normal cycle...not an Eco cycle and you probably won't be allowed to use any cycle modifiers that increase the water use with that cycle.
Perhaps it would help if we had stronger pumps in the DW but of course that will cost the manufacturers more money.
I am still left wondering why this can't be done since my 2006 DW model does this now on at least 1 cycle it has?
Finally If they think it is not doable they don't have to do it. They can sell DW that use more water - of course they won't get their DOE tax rebates from the IRS but they can still sell them.
One thing here is that the cycle that will use 3.1 gallons will have to be labeled the everyday normal cycle...not an Eco cycle and you probably won't be allowed to use any cycle modifiers that increase the water use with that cycle.
Perhaps it would help if we had stronger pumps in the DW but of course that will cost the manufacturers more money.
I am still left wondering why this can't be done since my 2006 DW model does this now on at least 1 cycle it has?
Finally If they think it is not doable they don't have to do it. They can sell DW that use more water - of course they won't get their DOE tax rebates from the IRS but they can still sell them.
I think the big thing is that so many people waste water as it is pre-rinsing "because the dishwasher won't wash the dishes" that the DoE thinks that cutting the water usage back is going to help...
Only trouble is, if it makes the dishwashers perform even worse than they do now, it just becomes a vicious cycle.
And by the way, if houses were designed with a little more common sense, like putting the bathrooms and kitchen near one-another, with the water heater either outside or immediately above (on the roof) or in the basement, then hot-fill dishwashers are VERY practical and can save a lot of energy*.
Even with an appreciable pipe run, where 5-6L of water is used to get the tap hot, your energy saving still greatly exceeds expenditure on water. Besides, that water could be used for pre-soaking laundry, watering plants, bathing, hand washing etc.
* A lot more energy, in fact, than just switching off the heated drying cycle.**
** If your machine gets "very hot" during the final rinse as a means of creating a heated dry, then again, a hot inlet is very practical and efficient way of doing the dishes. Why waste all that energy (stored as heat) by filling with cold water; and reducing a tub that was, for example 140ºF (60C) to less than 80ºF (27C) when it will only be heated again to in excess of 140º?
A Pretty BACKWARDS way of doing the dishes, I think.
Only trouble is, if it makes the dishwashers perform even worse than they do now, it just becomes a vicious cycle.
And by the way, if houses were designed with a little more common sense, like putting the bathrooms and kitchen near one-another, with the water heater either outside or immediately above (on the roof) or in the basement, then hot-fill dishwashers are VERY practical and can save a lot of energy*.
Even with an appreciable pipe run, where 5-6L of water is used to get the tap hot, your energy saving still greatly exceeds expenditure on water. Besides, that water could be used for pre-soaking laundry, watering plants, bathing, hand washing etc.
* A lot more energy, in fact, than just switching off the heated drying cycle.**
** If your machine gets "very hot" during the final rinse as a means of creating a heated dry, then again, a hot inlet is very practical and efficient way of doing the dishes. Why waste all that energy (stored as heat) by filling with cold water; and reducing a tub that was, for example 140ºF (60C) to less than 80ºF (27C) when it will only be heated again to in excess of 140º?
A Pretty BACKWARDS way of doing the dishes, I think.
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