Brent-Aucoin
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Tom,
Interesting Information!
Andrew, so sorry! SUCKS!
Brent
Interesting Information!
Andrew, so sorry! SUCKS!
Brent
New Tall Tub KitchenAid Dishwashers.. "To Clean or not Clean enough"?
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andrewinorlando
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Now Brent, just because the GE fairies have not been good to you is no reason to be hostile.... If it's any consolation, I hate my GE gas cooktop....it's the hardest friggin thing to clean...stupid design. Now that truly sucks. The dishwasher, however, is the best I've ever owned.
Brent-Aucoin
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Andrew,
Sorry, I meant to say Marc in stead of your name. Sucks that he is having such a tough time with Kitchenaid and his dishwasher troubles.
Sucks about your GE gas cooktop though.....
And by the way...I am very scared of GE fairies.
Brent
Sorry, I meant to say Marc in stead of your name. Sucks that he is having such a tough time with Kitchenaid and his dishwasher troubles.
Sucks about your GE gas cooktop though.....
And by the way...I am very scared of GE fairies.
Brent
andrewinorlando
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I say if you're going to build a glass top cooktop, don't put porcelain rings around the friggin burners!! And that's just what GE did and it's bitch to clean.
And yes, GE fairies are horribly frightful little creatures. Maybe that's what's wrong with the newer KitchenAids?? GE fairies have possessed them!! Everyone, check for fairy dust inside your KitchenAids!!
And yes, GE fairies are horribly frightful little creatures. Maybe that's what's wrong with the newer KitchenAids?? GE fairies have possessed them!! Everyone, check for fairy dust inside your KitchenAids!!
Very interesting...my parents have a TT Kenmore (with sensor) which doesn't seem to work very well IMHO but I've got a roughly 3 year-old non-TT Whirlpool (also with sensor) which works GREAT... I rinse much less than they do and the only things which need a go-back are wooden spoons and utensils (I'm not absolutely convinced that in-the-door is perfect for silverware etc) and a 13" saucier in which I make a frittata (i.e. stuck on eggs) which barely fits and doesn't get too clean. My folks have had bad luck with dishwashers...I remember a James back in the 1967 timeframe which was acquired from my great-grandmother (thought it was so cool that the d/w was named after me...this was just at the time I was learning to read, then a 2 cycle Sears portable which my dad and I converted to permanent installation but left on the cabinet (I could take it apart in nothing flat---we seemed to drop milk caps into it, and there was no filtering--only a macerator...we replaced the motor 1x in 10 years), then moved to a house with a built in Youngstown 30" (what a POS...we replaced it within the 1st month we were there...the house was built in 1957 with a full Youngstown kitchen which had been veneered with Formica...still had original Tappan/Youngstown 36" cooktop). My dad and I replaced with a Kitchenaid Imperial(this was the 1st year of the 3 level wash...also a POS which lasted <10 years). We had to order the side panel separately. They redid the kitchen in 1987 and put in the GE 1200 (I think--mechanical, but with the good upper rack and filtering system).
sounds like WP Corp. needs a lawsuit against them for the KA brand.
What's taking so long?
If KA wants to use such little water. Then what they need to do is split up the spray feed. They'll need to run the lower and upper spray arms separately just like Frigidaire.
Our apartment's Frigidaire uses just 1 gallon per fill, and alternates the spray arms. It does wash quite well.
It's no potscrubber, but it works.
We too have a GE tall tub from 2003 and it is great.
I'm not sure how they're able to do it, but the lightest sensed Normal wash in our GE Triton XL is a W-R-R-R and uses just 5 gallons of water and takes 47 minutes, sans the heat dry.
I think that's pretty damn good.
What's taking so long?
If KA wants to use such little water. Then what they need to do is split up the spray feed. They'll need to run the lower and upper spray arms separately just like Frigidaire.
Our apartment's Frigidaire uses just 1 gallon per fill, and alternates the spray arms. It does wash quite well.
It's no potscrubber, but it works.
We too have a GE tall tub from 2003 and it is great.
I'm not sure how they're able to do it, but the lightest sensed Normal wash in our GE Triton XL is a W-R-R-R and uses just 5 gallons of water and takes 47 minutes, sans the heat dry.
I think that's pretty damn good.
KitchenAid / GE
I have the GE tall tub also. On normal it will do w r r r but if it has heavier soil it will do 1 or 2 prewashes first. I can also use the prewash option if I choose and even if the sensor says it doesn't need a prewash 2 are given with the prewash option. I usually just use added heat option if the dishes are very dirty. That gives a sani rinse.
As for KitchenAid it is sad it is not still made by hobart
What happened to them is almost as bad but not quite as bad as what WCI did to Frigidaire.
Peter
I have the GE tall tub also. On normal it will do w r r r but if it has heavier soil it will do 1 or 2 prewashes first. I can also use the prewash option if I choose and even if the sensor says it doesn't need a prewash 2 are given with the prewash option. I usually just use added heat option if the dishes are very dirty. That gives a sani rinse.
As for KitchenAid it is sad it is not still made by hobart
What happened to them is almost as bad but not quite as bad as what WCI did to Frigidaire.
Peter
andrewinorlando
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Has anyone had any experience with the newest KA dishwashers that just came out? New racking system on the bottom on the top line machines, and, interestingly enough, when I demoed one in an appliance showroom last week, I opened the door while it was washing, and the water actually shot out the door from the upper spray arm and wet the front of my shirt. Maybe it's a step in the right direction for KitchenAid, but the machine still does the pulsed wash where it stops/starts the motor a series of times.
I think we all feel it here....these iconic brands that we've all known and loved our whole lives being relegated to mediocre, or worse, troublesome performers that cost big bucks.
I think we all feel it here....these iconic brands that we've all known and loved our whole lives being relegated to mediocre, or worse, troublesome performers that cost big bucks.
Well, there is obviously some performance differences between the WP TT cousins if my Elite has passed every BobLoad test I've given it since I got it in May.
andrewinorlando
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Bob - I haven't read that customers are having the same problem with the Kenmore Elite machines like you have, even though it's a similar design. At least not to the extent that they are having problems with the KitchenAid versions of the machine. I hope yours continues to be trouble free for many years!!
So, compared to the old GE 1200, do you like this one better? What do you like better (or worse) about it? Inquiring minds want to know!!!
So, compared to the old GE 1200, do you like this one better? What do you like better (or worse) about it? Inquiring minds want to know!!!
Well, for me, it's very dishearting to hear such things about a Kitchenaid. I guess like many here, years ago Kitchenaid was the BEST to buy. Now...... Anyway I remember an advertising blitz years ago on TV that showed women trying to load their dishwashers, with their frinds in the kitchen saying "should have bought a KitchenAid". I guess now it should be "should have bought a Bosch". My Bosch uses 4.4 gal on a minimum sensed level(which is what is senses on most loads) which consist of Purge, w,r,r. When I put turly nasty things in and select regular wash it will do Purge, r,r,w,r,r and only uses 7.8 gals. Everything always comes out gleaming and spotless. When this thread started I got to thinking, I want a kitchenaid. Now I'm truly glad I have my Bosch.
I have not had any problems with the new KitchenAid I just bought. Everything so far has come out spotless and believe me I have put in some real dirty dishes, casseroles, etc. - all with no pre-rinsing. And most of the time the dishes sit for a day or 2 unless there is a full load to be washed. Did I just luck out with my Kitchen Aid.
Gary
Gary
Gary,
My secret hope is that Kitchen Aid has made some improvements to try and combat the poor performance of models like mine that are 3 years old, and pehaps they have secretly paid attention to the many complaints they have received from customers like myself. It would be nice to hear that the newer models such as yours are performing better. I doubt that Kitchen aid themselves would admit to the need to improve their machine, but maybe they have. I do hope you have great luck with yours, I would hate to see anyone stuck with the situation I got buying this machine. One has to wonder what goes throught the minds of executives that make decisions on design that compromise the integrity of the iconic name brand they have? The name recognition obviously has come from past years where they had a product that had great cleaning results and reliability. If they were smart they would never compromise those to requirements or dumb down their product just to fit into energy star. In my opinion, a machine that uses 2 hours of electric to do one load of dishes is not 'energy efficient', regardless of how much water it uses.
My secret hope is that Kitchen Aid has made some improvements to try and combat the poor performance of models like mine that are 3 years old, and pehaps they have secretly paid attention to the many complaints they have received from customers like myself. It would be nice to hear that the newer models such as yours are performing better. I doubt that Kitchen aid themselves would admit to the need to improve their machine, but maybe they have. I do hope you have great luck with yours, I would hate to see anyone stuck with the situation I got buying this machine. One has to wonder what goes throught the minds of executives that make decisions on design that compromise the integrity of the iconic name brand they have? The name recognition obviously has come from past years where they had a product that had great cleaning results and reliability. If they were smart they would never compromise those to requirements or dumb down their product just to fit into energy star. In my opinion, a machine that uses 2 hours of electric to do one load of dishes is not 'energy efficient', regardless of how much water it uses.
Dishwasher Electric Usage
Electric consumption by the machine's pump motor, solenoids, electronic controls and such may not be as much as one would assume or expect.
I connected my DishDrawer to RJ's Kill-A-Watt a couple days ago, ran a Normal (non-Eco) cycle. I dropped the household water heater to 70°F to insure "cold" water to the dishwasher so it had to fully heat the water. Target temps are 140°F for the main wash, 150°F for the final rinse.
Total usage on the meter was less than 0.6 KWH. It's not 100% accurate because 10 hrs passed from the start of the cycle until I read the meter, and the cycle is 115 mins (or 145 mins if the post-cycle drying blower time is included). However, the machine only pulls 3 watts when "idle" so 0.6 KWH is close enough. Based on the electric rate on my last bill, running the load cost a bit less than 7.4 cents (not including the water well pumping the water out of the ground).
Highest power consumption during water heating was about 650 watts. The pump motor and active electronics without water heating was between 115 and 126 watts. The two lid motors which run for about 10 seconds at start of the cycle and a bit less time at the end pulled 89 watts. The electronics and drying fan motor during the dry phase was a whopping 7 watts.
Of course, these figures have no direct bearing on KitchenAid.
Electric consumption by the machine's pump motor, solenoids, electronic controls and such may not be as much as one would assume or expect.
I connected my DishDrawer to RJ's Kill-A-Watt a couple days ago, ran a Normal (non-Eco) cycle. I dropped the household water heater to 70°F to insure "cold" water to the dishwasher so it had to fully heat the water. Target temps are 140°F for the main wash, 150°F for the final rinse.
Total usage on the meter was less than 0.6 KWH. It's not 100% accurate because 10 hrs passed from the start of the cycle until I read the meter, and the cycle is 115 mins (or 145 mins if the post-cycle drying blower time is included). However, the machine only pulls 3 watts when "idle" so 0.6 KWH is close enough. Based on the electric rate on my last bill, running the load cost a bit less than 7.4 cents (not including the water well pumping the water out of the ground).
Highest power consumption during water heating was about 650 watts. The pump motor and active electronics without water heating was between 115 and 126 watts. The two lid motors which run for about 10 seconds at start of the cycle and a bit less time at the end pulled 89 watts. The electronics and drying fan motor during the dry phase was a whopping 7 watts.
Of course, these figures have no direct bearing on KitchenAid.
Brinomarc,
I am sorry to hear about the horrible experiences with your KitchenAid. If mine was doing the same I would have sent it back to Sears by now. I am quite impressed with mine so far. I really do like how well it cleans, how quiet it is and how easy it is to load all the different size dishes, glasses, casseroles, etc. in both the top and bottom racks.
Gary
I am sorry to hear about the horrible experiences with your KitchenAid. If mine was doing the same I would have sent it back to Sears by now. I am quite impressed with mine so far. I really do like how well it cleans, how quiet it is and how easy it is to load all the different size dishes, glasses, casseroles, etc. in both the top and bottom racks.
Gary
People, there are so many ways of getting satisfaction with corporations today; use them. Write the corporation one letter. State the appliance, the dealer, the trouble and the service. Tell them that the letter is going to the Better Business Bureau, the consumer advocate at your local television, any radio talk show that deals with constipated corporations, Consumer Reports and anywhere and everywhere on the web that you can find a forum for dishwashers. Then do exactly those things. Manufacturers have people who look for comments about their products on line and know immediately when someone drops a s**t bomb about poor performance or poor service.
Forty years ago, a friend told us about a man in Canada who bought a new snowmobile that caught fire and burned the first time he had it out. The dealer refused to do anything. The manufacturer would not do anything. The guy rented a trailer to pull behind his vehicle. He mounted the burned up snowmobile on it along with signs that told the brand, the dealer and what happened. He did not have to drive the POS around for two full days before they were at his door with a new snowmobile. Corporations sometimes think that they do not have to listen to individuals so individuals have to go to sometimes extreme steps to let the high and mighty know that there is a problem and that you are not happy with the response their people are giving you. It is no time to be discreet. Get a theater major to advise you, if necessary, but don't take any crap from someone you bought an appliance from. I wish all of you much success in correcting any wrong that has been done to you. Tom
Forty years ago, a friend told us about a man in Canada who bought a new snowmobile that caught fire and burned the first time he had it out. The dealer refused to do anything. The manufacturer would not do anything. The guy rented a trailer to pull behind his vehicle. He mounted the burned up snowmobile on it along with signs that told the brand, the dealer and what happened. He did not have to drive the POS around for two full days before they were at his door with a new snowmobile. Corporations sometimes think that they do not have to listen to individuals so individuals have to go to sometimes extreme steps to let the high and mighty know that there is a problem and that you are not happy with the response their people are giving you. It is no time to be discreet. Get a theater major to advise you, if necessary, but don't take any crap from someone you bought an appliance from. I wish all of you much success in correcting any wrong that has been done to you. Tom
Interesting date!
The post right above this one has an interesting date:
Post# 234370-8/32/2007-00:49
August 32nd! Fun!
The post right above this one has an interesting date:
Post# 234370-8/32/2007-00:49
August 32nd! Fun!
Ran a Normal Eco cycle this afternoon, and watched the Kill-A-Watt meter a little more closely. Main wash and final rinse both heat to 125°F.
Fill (motor runs to check water level), 45 watts.
Motor recirculate during prewash with no water heating, 75 to 106 watts.
Motor drain with water load, 45 watts.
Motor drain with no water load, 30 to 35 watts.
Motor recirculate during final rinse with water heating, 614 to 641 watts.
Drying blower, 7 watts.
Cycle time ~88 mins of which ~22 mins is the drying phase. Four water changes (W-W-R-R).
Total energy use, 0.4 KWH.
Fill (motor runs to check water level), 45 watts.
Motor recirculate during prewash with no water heating, 75 to 106 watts.
Motor drain with water load, 45 watts.
Motor drain with no water load, 30 to 35 watts.
Motor recirculate during final rinse with water heating, 614 to 641 watts.
Drying blower, 7 watts.
Cycle time ~88 mins of which ~22 mins is the drying phase. Four water changes (W-W-R-R).
Total energy use, 0.4 KWH.
stevet
Well-known member
WOW! Never thought this would be such a popular thread!
I am heartened to see the response to my post about how well I might expect my Unopened KUDP02IRWH2 dishwasher might work.
I don't want to get rid of the KDS18 we now use but would like something a bit quieter even though I have the old one double wrapped in insulation.
Specifally, though, a few of you mention that you currently have the WP clones but if you would just chime back in and let me know what model numbers you have that would be a help.
To Andrew in Orlando, what model was it you demonstrated and got soaked with? The last thing I would install is a machine that pulse washes the dishes.If that is what they designed it to do it would say there just isn't enough water in the sump to supply constatnt water pressure and that they are depending on that initial burst of pressure you get when you first turn on any pump and then it levels out.
Hoving worked for Hobart for many years, that is what happens when a dishwasher has to little water in it, especially the undercounter units on which the Venerable KitchenAids were all based!
I am heartened to see the response to my post about how well I might expect my Unopened KUDP02IRWH2 dishwasher might work.
I don't want to get rid of the KDS18 we now use but would like something a bit quieter even though I have the old one double wrapped in insulation.
Specifally, though, a few of you mention that you currently have the WP clones but if you would just chime back in and let me know what model numbers you have that would be a help.
To Andrew in Orlando, what model was it you demonstrated and got soaked with? The last thing I would install is a machine that pulse washes the dishes.If that is what they designed it to do it would say there just isn't enough water in the sump to supply constatnt water pressure and that they are depending on that initial burst of pressure you get when you first turn on any pump and then it levels out.
Hoving worked for Hobart for many years, that is what happens when a dishwasher has to little water in it, especially the undercounter units on which the Venerable KitchenAids were all based!
magic clean
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Stevet, the tall-tub dishwashers from Whirlpool for several years now, have the intermittant pause and start scattered throughout the main wash cycle. There is also a brief pulse during the 1st fill to temperature condition the tub & dishes.
These intermittant starts and stops are now part of the filtration and soil sensing process. The water level in a properly leveled & installed machine will be just touching the heating element. This is plenty to provide proper spray pressure through all 5 wash levels.
Why not install you KUDP02 and try it? It will run longer than your porcelain tub machine, but it uses about 1/3 of the water & 1/2 the electricity.
These intermittant starts and stops are now part of the filtration and soil sensing process. The water level in a properly leveled & installed machine will be just touching the heating element. This is plenty to provide proper spray pressure through all 5 wash levels.
Why not install you KUDP02 and try it? It will run longer than your porcelain tub machine, but it uses about 1/3 of the water & 1/2 the electricity.
