New Tall Tub KitchenAid Dishwashers.. "To Clean or not Clean enough"?

[re563]

Well, for me, it's very dishearting to hear such things about a Kitchenaid. I guess like many here, years ago Kitchenaid was the BEST to buy. Now...... Anyway I remember an advertising blitz years ago on TV that showed women trying to load their dishwashers, with their frinds in the kitchen saying "should have bought a KitchenAid". I guess now it should be "should have bought a Bosch". My Bosch uses 4.4 gal on a minimum sensed level(which is what is senses on most loads) which consist of Purge, w,r,r. When I put turly nasty things in and select regular wash it will do Purge, r,r,w,r,r and only uses 7.8 gals. Everything always comes out gleaming and spotless. When this thread started I got to thinking, I want a kitchenaid. Now I'm truly glad I have my Bosch.

 

[countryguy]

I have not had any problems with the new KitchenAid I just bought. Everything so far has come out spotless and believe me I have put in some real dirty dishes, casseroles, etc. - all with no pre-rinsing. And most of the time the dishes sit for a day or 2 unless there is a full load to be washed. Did I just luck out with my Kitchen Aid.

Gary

 

[brinomarc]

Gary,

My secret hope is that Kitchen Aid has made some improvements to try and combat the poor performance of models like mine that are 3 years old, and pehaps they have secretly paid attention to the many complaints they have received from customers like myself. It would be nice to hear that the newer models such as yours are performing better. I doubt that Kitchen aid themselves would admit to the need to improve their machine, but maybe they have. I do hope you have great luck with yours, I would hate to see anyone stuck with the situation I got buying this machine. One has to wonder what goes throught the minds of executives that make decisions on design that compromise the integrity of the iconic name brand they have? The name recognition obviously has come from past years where they had a product that had great cleaning results and reliability. If they were smart they would never compromise those to requirements or dumb down their product just to fit into energy star. In my opinion, a machine that uses 2 hours of electric to do one load of dishes is not 'energy efficient', regardless of how much water it uses.

 

[DADoES]

Dishwasher Electric Usage

Electric consumption by the machine's pump motor, solenoids, electronic controls and such may not be as much as one would assume or expect.

I connected my DishDrawer to RJ's Kill-A-Watt a couple days ago, ran a Normal (non-Eco) cycle. I dropped the household water heater to 70°F to insure "cold" water to the dishwasher so it had to fully heat the water. Target temps are 140°F for the main wash, 150°F for the final rinse.

Total usage on the meter was less than 0.6 KWH. It's not 100% accurate because 10 hrs passed from the start of the cycle until I read the meter, and the cycle is 115 mins (or 145 mins if the post-cycle drying blower time is included). However, the machine only pulls 3 watts when "idle" so 0.6 KWH is close enough. Based on the electric rate on my last bill, running the load cost a bit less than 7.4 cents (not including the water well pumping the water out of the ground).

Highest power consumption during water heating was about 650 watts. The pump motor and active electronics without water heating was between 115 and 126 watts. The two lid motors which run for about 10 seconds at start of the cycle and a bit less time at the end pulled 89 watts. The electronics and drying fan motor during the dry phase was a whopping 7 watts.

Of course, these figures have no direct bearing on KitchenAid.

 

[countryguy]

Brinomarc,

I am sorry to hear about the horrible experiences with your KitchenAid. If mine was doing the same I would have sent it back to Sears by now. I am quite impressed with mine so far. I really do like how well it cleans, how quiet it is and how easy it is to load all the different size dishes, glasses, casseroles, etc. in both the top and bottom racks.

Gary

 

[earthling177]

Interesting date!

The post right above this one has an interesting date:

Post# 234370-8/32/2007-00:49

August 32nd! Fun!

 

[DADoES]

Ran a Normal Eco cycle this afternoon, and watched the Kill-A-Watt meter a little more closely. Main wash and final rinse both heat to 125°F.

Fill (motor runs to check water level), 45 watts.

Motor recirculate during prewash with no water heating, 75 to 106 watts.

Motor drain with water load, 45 watts.

Motor drain with no water load, 30 to 35 watts.

Motor recirculate during final rinse with water heating, 614 to 641 watts.

Drying blower, 7 watts.

Cycle time ~88 mins of which ~22 mins is the drying phase. Four water changes (W-W-R-R).

Total energy use, 0.4 KWH.

 

[stevet]

WOW! Never thought this would be such a popular thread!

I am heartened to see the response to my post about how well I might expect my Unopened KUDP02IRWH2 dishwasher might work.
I don't want to get rid of the KDS18 we now use but would like something a bit quieter even though I have the old one double wrapped in insulation.
Specifally, though, a few of you mention that you currently have the WP clones but if you would just chime back in and let me know what model numbers you have that would be a help.

To Andrew in Orlando, what model was it you demonstrated and got soaked with? The last thing I would install is a machine that pulse washes the dishes.If that is what they designed it to do it would say there just isn't enough water in the sump to supply constatnt water pressure and that they are depending on that initial burst of pressure you get when you first turn on any pump and then it levels out.
Hoving worked for Hobart for many years, that is what happens when a dishwasher has to little water in it, especially the undercounter units on which the Venerable KitchenAids were all based!

 

[magic clean]

Stevet, the tall-tub dishwashers from Whirlpool for several years now, have the intermittant pause and start scattered throughout the main wash cycle. There is also a brief pulse during the 1st fill to temperature condition the tub & dishes.

These intermittant starts and stops are now part of the filtration and soil sensing process. The water level in a properly leveled & installed machine will be just touching the heating element. This is plenty to provide proper spray pressure through all 5 wash levels.

Why not install you KUDP02 and try it? It will run longer than your porcelain tub machine, but it uses about 1/3 of the water & 1/2 the electricity.

 

[DADoES]

Heavy non-Eco cycle. 132 mins (including dry time), 7 water changes (~5.6 gals), 150°F main wash, 163°F final rinse.

0.68 KWH power used. At the last billed rate of $0.12354/KWH, that's $0.0839 energy cost.

 

[andrewinorlando]

SteveT - The KA I saw was their newest TOL machine. It has a reconfigured lower rack, which looks nice, and holds more than their previous model. I just opened it while it was washing and got sprayed; there seemed to be decent water pressure in there. There were no dishes in it at the time. The machine is certainly quiet, has a better racking setup than the previous generation TOL machines, and has an optional front mounted countdown timer with indicator lights. Nice machine, I thought. The salesman said they haven't sold many yet as they've just came out, but he also said that many people who buy these high end machines don't really care less how well they clean (or not), as long as their quiet and "stylish". He also said that if I didn't want a KitchenAid but wanted a really good dishwasher that he knows I will like and will do a good job for me, to go with one of the JennAir or Maytag TT models with stainless interior. He seemed to think they have a superior wash system, and a better motor (they use the vertically mounted "pancake" style motor, rather than the horizontally mounted motor).

 

[stevet]

and the answer is???

Andrew,
Do you remember what model series it was that gave you a shower? Was it the "2 or 3" series. I am so reluctant to install my KUDP021RWH
for fear of it not matching the performance of my KDS18. I could care less about energy star ratings on these units as they run so much longer. I cannot see what possible savings there would be.

 

[andrewinorlando]

Steve -

It was a KUDU03STSS, the latest "U" series with the top mounted controls and the display in the front.

 

[pierreandreply4]

hello

here is a tip let the hot water from the tap flow until the water is hot then start your dishwasher

 

[petek]

Andrew; a salesman saying many people buying high end machines don't really care how well they clean just that they're quiet and stylish.. sounds a little odd to me. To my way of thinking most people paying premiums want it all and they are the first people that are going to be madder than hell if they find out it doesn't live up to its premium price.
Personally I'd deal with another salesman, but then again the vast majority of people selling appliances really don't have actual experience ever seeing the machines they are selling in operation at all.

 

[appnut]

Pete, I hate to say it, but Andrew is right on the people and their high-end machines. I've had a discussion with a few knowledgeable people here over the years as well as personal observation in many a high-end type environment/home. I can't tell you how many times I've been domestic help and caterers thoroughly wash everything before it's placed in a machihne. Also happens when a bunch of variouis people are helping and the same thing happens.

 

[andrewinorlando]

Sorry Pete, you're wrong on that point. He wasn't a salesman, he owned the place. And his recommendation was either a Maytag TT TOL or the GE Profile TT TOL, not the KitchenAid. But he does sell a lot of KitchenAids and thought that for what I was looking for, I would be happy with the KitchenAid, too, if that's the route I wanted to go. Most people who buy the high end either don't cook or they blatantly pre-rinse or pre-wash everything before it goes in. As he said, it's all for show with his customer base. His is a high end kitchen/appliance showroom with design service.

 

[decodriveboy]

Anti-Energy Star

I have experience with both the newer KA DW, the one with 3 cycles, Heavy, Normal, and Rinse Only. I always use the High-Temp option for the reasons expressed by many of our members above. Currently am using a Frigidaire Gallery, and unless Pots & Pans (a cycle 2+ hours long!!) is used, the results suck!

Something has to be done about this Energy Star bullshit! Who can we complain to? Are manufacturers all forced to dumb-down their products because it's mandatory to have this asinine, counterproductive certification? Or is it a voluntary marketing gimmick they try to qualify for?

My water bill is about $3 a month, yes, THREE dollars, however my electric bill is another story--thanks to ENERGY-STAR appliances and their overlong cycles!

There are NO savings having to rewash clothes/dishes/what-have-you because the appliance is starved for water!