New Washer, Fisher & Paykel or Bosch

[bimmer740]

Our 6 1/2 year old Fisher & Paykel is not working correctly. The unit runs but its not pumping the water out during the spin cycle. It will occasionally pump some and leave the rest, filtering it though the drum over and over again. Anyway, we are having a service person come to look at it but doubt its worth repair since I think the control board is the problem. We have been extremely happy with this washer and would replace it with the new Fisher & Paykel WL26CW1 but we are also considering the Bosch Axxis 500. The Bosch uses half the amount of water per load, a big deal since we are like every other Long Island home and have a cespool <yuk>. The difference in price is about $200 more for the Bosch but if its anywhere near as good as our new Bosch dishwasher then its money well spent. Does anyone have any experience with these machines? I dont want an LG, even though they seem nice, because apparently its very hard to get someone to sevice the machine if something should go wrong (in my area anyway). I also took a look at the Whirlpool Duet but its more expensive than the Bosch and without a pedestal it sits much lower to the ground than the Bosch. Thanks for any info!!
-Steven

 

[bimmer740]

Sorry, I meant the Bosch Nexxt 500

 

[brisnat81]

You will probably find

That the part that has failed is a divertor valve, its costs about $70AUD and will take 5 minutes to fit.

If the machine still recirculates water, but doesnt drain, then it is pretty likely this is the problem.

If you decide to buy a new machine, I'd buy the Bosch over the LG, purely based on the service network, and the disposaable marketing that LG has on their products.

 

[DADoES]

What is your specific F&P model? If it's an "eco" machine, my first guess is the divertor valve, not the control board. A cheap fix if so.

Note: The machine does a neutral drain .. meaning the tub must be emptied of wash or rinse water *before* it will spin .. although of course the pump also runs during spin.

 

[sudsmaster]

Another option for a reasonably priced but effective front loader is the Frigidaire Affinity. It will be easy to get parts/service for, and has an internal water heater and a non-tilted drum. Although Consumer Reports gave it so-so reviews, the user feedback I've seen in various forums has been positive and I think CR perhaps didn't select the correct combination of cycle/wash temp. In fact it should be easier to get service/parts than the Bosch or LG.

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[DADoES]

Sears Parts online has a divertor for $17 or thereabouts, last time I checked. Their database isn't responding at the moment on F&P model numbers, it has a glitch with that occasionally.

 

[irishwashguy]

My vote is for the Bosch

I have many of friends that have the Bosch, and some family, and are delighted with it. I would not buy the LG, just because of their lack of service in many parts of the country, and maybe yours as well.

 

[chachp]

I'd go for the Bosch too1

I have the Axxis+ Washer and Dryer and love them. They are five years old now. The washer cleans very well.

 

[funguy10]

I hate Front-Loaders for several reasons:

1. They make an earthquake during the final spin if your floor is not structurally stable.

2. If they break down, Parts for them are more expensive to get. You would have to worry mostly about the door boot and the bearing.

3. As TechniGeek stated in another thread, Front-Loaders do not use enough water. You normally just see wet laundry tumbling around and no water. I don't know how Consumer Reports, Epinions, etc. could possibly say they clean better than Top-Loaders because with so little water it is just not possible.

4. There is that whole mold and mildew and musty smell problem.

That's why the Bosch and the Fridgidaire Affinity are both definitly out of the question in my opinion. To back me up, how about if DADoeS tells us how well his Fisher & Paykel IWL12 Intuitive Eco washer cleans?

 

[bimmer740]

Thanks for all the info, I really appriciate it. If its just the valve I will be very happy, we really do love this washer. Its still in perfect condition, never abused, and cleans well. The F & P replaced a washer that was at least 20 years old, we used it for about 15 years and it was in the house when we bought it. We love that the F&P cut the drying time almost in half!

If we do really need to purchase a new machine and go the front loader route, what the best machine, Miele? If its a quality machine that will last then it justifies the cost. But Im affraid that some of the front loaders are cheaply made/over priced, and will be dead in 6 years. Am I wrong in thinking that some manufactures are just jumping into the new "fad" and not perfecting their machines or making them well?
-Steven

 

[funguy10]

So you are going to fix the one you have? If you are, I reccomend www.fixitnow.com for help to fix it.

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[aldspinboy]

Hello steven i have worked in appliances for a long while and could shed some lite on a few things. first lets not forget this website is for the love of washing and it's washers. all machines frount&top loading have pluses & minuses, front loading saves water, energy, detergent and the best that i love about any front loaders are high spin speeds. of course the higher the number is the less time in the dryer which is were the bulk of your energy is.In your F&P washer you are at
1000RPM which is good in european spin class ratings. 1000-1200 is class C this is very good at 1200. that is what my bosch spins at and my clothes are ready in 25 min depending on the size of the load and my largest is still around 45 min.1300&1400RPM is class b. 1600 is class A and thats as far as we go in the usa. of course in europe there are some machines that go 1800&2000 RPM's WOW! Secondly the heating factor i like. a true hot wash for white cottons and most higher end models give you a heated wash at 125 ferenheit. 135f 140f 153f 155f 170f & 205f 140& 155 are usally the range most are at and what we in the usa like. most americans dont know or are not into hot washes or not educated about it. europeans no this well that thermal heat really cleans and sanitize clothes without the use of bleach and it really does. thats the beauty of the front.I have a bosch neext premium and it is built very well, has great programs. they have 6 models. i advise to at least get the thermal units from bosch. they are really water tight though i just add my own extra water to the machine. that said here are the models that gives you a nice high water level theres only two ive witness Asko W6461 has a high water level button and a 1600 rpm spin speed. there built like mac trucks. 3 yr warrenty parts & labor. the downfall is the capacity is 13 pounds which is eqivelent to 8 or 9 towels or one bedding or 4 or 5 pairs of jeans. u have to think euro washing and it's not bad considering all of the savings u get with asko. ive sold 11 of them in the past 7 yrs havent had any call backs put there a little pricey over $1500 or 1600 hundred in basic white but supposed to last 20yrs or more if u take care it.the other is my favs whirlpool LHW0050PQ made by eurotech has a high water level in all washes 799$ great machine for the price.made by asko and for tops F&P or cabrio or oasis great water level. the new F&P with the wash plate has two modes eco & traditional wash modes . love these washers!! i think one day they will be standard in all top loaders .the invisble agitator with reveres rollover and the traditional agitator models are nice. As far as the fronts being stable wood floors and spriginess are not good. my customers usually reinforce the the flooring,but asko, bosch, miele are the most stable. they weigh a ton. miele are the cream of the crop. either way frontloading machines are here to stay .call your manufactures and tell them what u want in a front loader other wise there very quiet and really does give u better care on textiles. every professional laundry & drycleaning machines all use the (wheel) as the call it. P.S. sometimes its not good to have high water levels in certain fabrics because of dye bleeding and pilling so hand wash & delicate programs and special tumble rythems are great and know toploader cant match that.please e-mail me for furthur discussion on of this topic. and as far as mold and mildew in a front i NEVER had a problem becase i wipe the gasket and leave the door ajar. peaple dont like to take care of the machines so thats what happens ya little more matenience but will worth it.thanks Darren k

 

[funguy10]

I too, say that conventional Top-Loaders are going obsolete only to be replaced with non-agitator HE Top-Loaders. Also, I heard in another thread that soon machines will use spray rinsing because it uses less water but will also mean we will go around WEARING DETERGENT! Here are examples of HE Top-Loaders:

Kenmore Oasis
Whirlpool Cabrio
Maytag Bravos
Fisher & Paykel AquaSmart
GE Harmony
Haier Genesis
Whirlpool Calypso (currently not in marketing)
Kenmore Calypso (currently not in marketing)
Maytag Neptune TL (no longer in production)

 

[bimmer740]

New Bosch

Thanks everyone for your imput! The repair man came out today and he thought it was the diverter valve too, but it turns out the vavle was fine and the main control board in the unit was shot. So at $400 for the repair we declined and went right out and bought the new Bosch Nexxt 500. Seems like a very nice machine, only other one I would have liked was the new Miele 4080, but it was $1800 and the Bosch was on sale for 1000. They took an extra 100 off plus they will deliver and install it for free this sunday so it worked out well. We also purchased the 10 year guarantee, if it breaks they will repair it, if it cant be fixed or parts are NLA, they give us 900 towards a new washer.

Can anyone recommend a good detergent? We always use regular Tide, should we switch to the Tide HE or is there something better?

 

[DADoES]

Bimmer740, you can get a control board from Sears Parts for considerably less than $400. It's not difficult to change-out the board, DIY.

 

[funguy10]

Yes, you must seitch to Tide HE because the Bosch is a front-loading washer. Take in mind what I said though. Front-Loading washers SIMPLY DON'T USE ENOUGH WATER! This is why they need HE detergent. This is because HE dtergent suspends the dirt it washes out of your laundry within the water so it doesn't redeposit on the laundry. However, Front-Loaders simply CANNOT CLEAN WELL with so little water as according to both TechniGeek and also local sources of mine that sell appliances. This is the main source of complaint for Top-Loading HE washers. I've seen complaints particularly with the Oasis and the Harmony. It is not the cleaning action that doesn't get clothes clean, It is the lack of water. Also, every place in my town that sells appliances says the same thing about front-loaders. This includes my aunt who works in the appliance department at Sears. I don't think she has EVER sold one Front-Loader the entire time she worked there. She worked there since the 1960s and she is almost ready to retire. It is not to late to make the switch to the Fisher & Paykel but it is only a reccomendation. Even though it is an HE Top-Loader it does that "Eco-Active" wash to begin to dissolve soil and stains before it fills and agitates. If that is not enough you can change it to work like a traditional Top-Loader!

 

[foraloysius]

Enough of your ranting about frontloaders mr Funguy. Have you ever owned one or do you have extensive experience with it? I think it's all hearsay what you are bringing up here.

Frontloaders need HE detergent or low sudsing because it has a total different washing action. Older frontloaders that used lots of water still needed a low sudsing detergent too. It's not about the amount of water, it's about the wash action. And I know, I've been washing with frontloaders for years and years.

The action of a frontloader is based on the same action as was used when our ancestors washed in a river and used a stone to slap the laundry on. Frontloaders imitate this action by letting the clothes fall on the side of the drum, not in the water. If you ever took interest in that oldfashioned way of washing, you know that that rock wasn't in the water, but above the water level, hence the low water levels in the wash cycle. To get a decent rinse, a frontloaders has several rinses unlike most toploaders. With spins between those rinses the soap gets just as well or perhaps even better.

So stop bashing frontloaders, you don't have a clue about them.

Personally I like both frontloaders and toploaders and both have their advantages. They are both washers and can give you a lot of fun and clean laundry too.

Steven,

Good luck with your Bosch, I think you made a good choice. Let us know about your experiences with it.

Louis

 

[funguy10]

I don't own a Front-Loader. Nobody in my family does and nobody in my family likes them. Yes, my aunt has not sold one. We all say the cleaning action is horrible. We did get a new machine last May, but it was a Kenmore Oasis with an agitator. It is a real workhorse. It also cleans great! I however say that all 3 types of machine (Front-Loader, Top-Loader, and HE Top-Loader) all have thier pluses and minuses.

Front-Load:

Pluses:
They use less water and electricity.
They are overall gentler on laundry.
They are simpler to repair(Not as many moving parts.)

Mnuses:
If you don't have a solid groud, they will shake up a storm during spin.
You have to bend down to load and unload them. Can only be averted by buying $100 pedastals.
Parts more expensive to get if they break.(Your two biggest worries for part failiure are the door boot and the bearing.)
Require HE dtergent.

Top-Load:

Pluses:
Typically provide great cleaning results.
Can use regular detergent.

Minuses:
Cause more wear on your laundry.
More mechanically complex then Front-Loaders(Transmission)
Transmission can leak oil on your floor.( Our Kenmore Branded Whirlpool dircet-drive machine did this as a way of saying "I'm failing soon".)

HE Top-Load:

Pluses:
No-Agitator=more wash tub space.
Easier to fix because of less moving parts.
No failiure-prone transmission.
Water and energy usage comparable to a Front-Loader!

Minuses:
Needs HE detergent.
Some say less water will mean bad clening results.

And that's it. Also, what do you know about why people say the HE Top-Load machines don't clean that well?

In conclusion, I never thought I'd say this but Bimmer740, good luck with the Bosch. If that is the one ypu prefered, fine by me. Remember, That was only a reccomendation for the Fisher & Paykel and not me telling you "You'd better buy it".

 

[bimmer740]

New Bosch

I just wanted to say that I love our new Bosch washer!! We really liked the Fisher & Paykel and thought that machine was quiet compared to the Kenmore/Whirlpool it replaced, but the Bosch is almost silent!! Its just as quiet as our Bosch dishwasher. I really like the variety in water temperture settings like the Extra Sanitary cylce. I find myself sitting and staring into the drum watching the clothes go around, its fascinating!

The one thing that will take getting used to is the variations in wash times. The cycles are much longer than the F&P, but I like how the machine "thinks" for itself and can legthen or shorten the cycle time.

We are using Tide HE with the machine since we have always used regular Tide in our other machines. Can we use Borax or OxiClean in this machine along with the detergent? Also, is their any other detergent that is worth giving a try? I noticed some talk about Persil, but can it be used with colors? And, does it really clean that much better considering the price? I am all for superior quality and value design innovation. I not cheap by any means and I dont mean to sound snobby, but, I buy nice clothes, appliances (especially my vacuums), and I drive a Mercedes, but when I saw Persil online for almost $60 a box my jaw dropped!! Talk about sticker shock! Is their gold inside the box? jk

Thanks!