New Whirlpool Top Loader - UK- Info needed please

[DADoES]

I can see *way* more energy waste in the building where I work than my toploader will ever cause. Several toploaders taken together would be a different situation ... but then there are lots more wasteful buildings out there, too.

I wouldn't mind having a frontloader, for pillows and overstuffed bedspreads and such, and just to see what they can do.

 

[mrboilwash]

It makes a hell lot of a sense to conserve water in areas where is plenty of water.
The more the dirt, chemicals and whatever in waste water is diluted with clean water the more you keep the sewage treatment plants busy. None of them can remove all of the unwanted stuff, so there is still more than enough work for nature to cope with, before you can drink the water again and the cycle is closed.
The point is that conserving water means better quality of clean water at the end, even if pollution entry stays at the same level.

 

[washboy2005]

My mum's considering a Whirlpool Top loader....

To Replace our old Hoover washer dryer, its a bit past its expiration date now, its served its purpose, albeit with many repairs but its done well for the abuse its had.

For everyday lightly soiled items a top loader would be okay wouldnt it?, the only really dirty things we wash are socks, and I know a good stain remover i can soak them in before hand so i shouldnt really have any problems with cleaning should I?

Also... for the average load of Dark Cottons, thick tshirts, jeans, underwear, what would be the maximum wash time you reccomend?

My Friend's mum owns a Whirlppol top laoder the same as the one pictured below and she is overly happy with it especialy the wash times, as she does have to wash for 9 people, her opininon of them is kinda swaying me closer to them also. (just thought id add this bit)

Many Thanks
Dan

 

[panthera]

Ok, if ... then

Dan, if'n it really-o truly-o has to be a top loader, then there are a few things to take into consideration.
1) The mechanical abrasion is so much greater than in a FL that you just can not wash clothes very long. A gentle wash cycle is ok for 15 minutes, otherwise you should not go beyond 10-12 max.
2) Since the water temperature can't rise gradually, as it should for enzymes to work best, you need to pre-soak really dirty stuff for at least 20, better 40 minutes in water around 105°F.
3) Despite their obscene waste of water, TL do a very poor job of rinsing when there is over-sudsing. It is much better to use low-suds detergent and soft water (softened if you have to) then to overdose detergent to make up for hard water. A second or "deep rinse" is a very good idea.
4) The spin speeds of TLs are very low. If you are going to be running your clothes through a tumbler, than either get a spinner running at 1800RPM or so or at least hang the clothes up to dry for a few hours first.
5) TL are much better at balancing than FLs are, but they still benefit a lot from being balanced.
6) Whereas most FL in Europe have at least some ruidmentary "aqua stop" or some such protection, TLs don't. Always turn off the water hoses when you are done washing.
7) Do not overload. A FL can still do an ok job slightly overloaded...a TL needs turnover to clean adequately.
8) Borax, Washing Soda and oxygen bleach make an even greater difference in cleaning efficiency in Tls than in Fls - that super short washing cycle needs all the help it can get. Pre-treat, pre-soak and stuff can still come out clean. Not as
9) The total wash times in a TL are so much shorter than in a FL you can wash more efficiently. But the old rule still applies: Hottest first, then cooler.
Hope this helps - I am still convinced a TL is a mistake, but since you asked, what the hell, might as well make the best of it.

 

[panthera]

Glenn,

It is not a case of being a hysterical tree-hugger. It is something which, in your country once was held in high esteem: Waste not, want not.
No, one TL will not kill dear mother earth. (I don't worry about her, red in tooth and claw she will solve the problem - us - soon enough).
But why of why should we use double or triple the amount of water and chemicals and energy to achieve lower quality results than a modern Fl gives?
Conservation is seen by many people in the US as being somehow a giving up of quality-of-life. Certainly it can be that way, but this is not such an issue. As for the ice melting, I believe even your country's scientist have finally acknowledged that this is not a good thing.
What on earth did I do to push your buttons here? Why defend a wasteful lifestyle? Tell me, so I can apologize.

 

[peterh770]

And beware the sour towels! Was visiting over the weekend, and in the bathroom washing my hands, the towel had that tell-tale sour musty smell. I wandered about a bit and found the laundry room. My suspicions were confirmed - Kenmore. Why does it seem that all the non-laundry buff people I know who have WP/KM TL machines have sour towels?

 

[user 12105]

I have had 2 WP made machines and never had a problem with sour towels. What the hell are people doing, cleaning up cat piss with them?

Write to the manufacturers who are still producing TL washers and let them know all the reasons they should not make those style of machines anymore.

It is an on going debate that usually leads to bickering where nothing gets solved. The TL vs. FL debate will probably always creep up from time to time on a forum such as this.

Let people be happy with whatever makes "their boat float".

 

[DADoES]

Interesting, I saw a post @ THS from someone claiming that a TL is not aggressive enough to clean clothes properly, that a FL is more aggressive/abrasive from the fabric slapping against the drum.
<blockquote>The FL washer cleans via friction and the movement of the fibers rather than just swishing them around. Think of it like cleaning a bathroom fixture (sink,toilet,etc) and cleaning by filling the basin by just using a little bit of water and a scrub brush (FL washer) vs. filling the whole basin of water and sticking a food mixer in there to agitate the water (TL washer.)</blockquote>

 

[panthera]

well nonsense

That is just plain silly. I have used both and there is no way on earth a FL comes even close to the mechanical action available in a (not overloaded) TL.
With enough hot water, enough detergent, fast-acting enzymes, good oxygen bleach and not so full there is no turn-over, a TL can clean just as well as a FL - just faster.
Faster, because of the increased mechanical action.
The real question is whether the exhorbitant use of water, energy and chemicals is balanced by the savings in time.
FLs clean better because they take longer, heat water more slowly (exactly what enzymes "want") and expose the clothes to higher concentrations of soil-releasing agents over a longer period of time.
My mom's Unimatic used 1/3 the water of this Whirlpool thingamagummy and spun the clothes dry at nearly double the speed. They came out clean and sweet - and nearly dry. It ain't the TL/FL conflict, it is the rotten quality of the current traditional TLs...

 

[Designgeek]

I'm what you'd call a green freak, but I don't a-priori condemn TLs as excessive. The biggest waste of water in most USA households is in outdoor irrigation: over-watering the lawn. And as it turns out, depending on what detergents etc. you use, you can run the output from a TL (at least the rinse cycles) into a sprinkler and use *that* for watering your lawn: problem solved.

The key to all of this is, intelligent design (not the kind the right-wingers are promoting!) gives you the best of both worlds: "sustainable comfort."

I'm going to reveal something a bit prematurely here: some friends & I are gearing up to start an appliance company, to produce high-efficiency and high-flexibility appliances. For the most part these will be brand-name units with certain modifications added. I'll start a topic on this at some point in the next month or two, when things have progressed a bit further. But as a generalization, one of our goals is to give people both high-efficiency and freedom of choice. This is going to be interesting & fun, and y'all here have been something of an inspiration to me in many ways. More later....

 

[washboy2005]

Okay so maybe the whole top loader plan was a bad idea...

Anyone reccomend the whirlpool duet (deamspaces in uk)??

 

[panthera]

Daniel,

Stay away from European Whirlpool completely. Buy Miele, AEG, Electrolux -
Better, restore an earlier UK machine.
But modern Whirlpool and Bauknecht are just not worth the money.
I have had very good performance out of my LG, but have heard nothing good about their service outside of Germany.
Of course, if you have your heart set on a TL, then think of ways to maximise performance and minimise water use. I know folks in Colorado (serious water rationing) who reuse the wash water, (suds saver, but manually) going from the first very hot wash down to warm. Then the last rinse for the first rinse and so on.
As someone pointed out a while back on another thread, if you only listen to your head, you won't be happy, either.
(But at least your friends and neighbours over in green Germany will be rooting for you...)

 

[hoover3060]

Hi guys

Well I have certainly not been put off by all the negative comments about the Whirlpool top loaders.I still intend to get one.

The Whirlpool top loaders you get here in the UK ARE MADE IN THE USA! All the websites you can buy them from state they are made in the USA and the previous models before the new models they have just launched here all had big stickers on the wash lids saying "MADE IN THE USA". So I have no problem with the way they are built as I know they will be good quality.

I have no problem with the wash results they will give. I used to own an Admiral top loader (Made in USA) and I was more than happy with the wash results.The only reason I couldnt keep it was that it was too big for the house we moved into.Now we are moving again I intend to get another top loader as I was very happy with the Admiral.

Im quite happy to use more water in the machine and have short cycles rather than wait 2 1/2 hours for a front loader to finish (And yes I know there is a quick wash option but this washes far to quickly for my liking) The synthetic cycle can also be a way of reducing the wash time but personally to me I like a vigarous wash and fast spin on my cottons so thats not really any good either.Living in Scotland the water comes from a loch and so is in ready supply.I have to use the super rinse button on the fl with doubles the water usage to achieve good rinse results.I would rather have the top loader tub full of water emersing the clothes completely.You cant get many loads washed in the day in a fl and because I do quite a lot of washing this is important to me.I like to have washing on the line early in the day and after a few loads in a fl the time is marching on and its to late to put them out.With a top loader I can get loads washed quickly and out on the line for a decent amount of time.

Now on another note we are also thinking of getting the matching dryer.The thing which worries me is that after looking through many posts to me it looks like the American dryers blast the clothes with furnace type heat.Is this true? Do they have options for very low heat?

Thanks guys
Mark

 

[Designgeek]

Hoover3060 has an interesting point: the fast cycle of the TL lets you finish the washing early enough to put the clothes up on the line. That means zero energy consumption for drying. So the loss in water efficiency is more than made up by a gain in energy efficiency, and is perfectly viable if you live in a place where water is truly plentiful. (And if not, then use the discharged rinse water for watering the lawn or garden, or some other purpose...)

On the other hand, if you're in a place where electricity is plentiful (e.g. nuclear, wind, or sufficient solar) but water is the limited resource, you can use a FL and a tumble dryer, using more electricity but saving water.

"Thinking globally & acting locally" = different solutions for different areas.

 

[lavamat_jon]

Well, in all honesty I find that I can still get washing on the line with all the loads I do by about 3pm; so I guess it really isn't an issue unless your washing line is in the shade for most of the day.

Jon

 

[westtexman]

Mark -

It is true that the American dryers do blast the clothes with furnace-type heat. I believe this is due to the fact that the average TL only spins between 600-700 RPM, therefore leaving the clothes quite damp when taking them out of the washer. I purchased a Euro dryer last year and was amazed that even on the Cotton cycle, the heat was very low compared with the typical American dryer.

You can use the Delicates cycle on an American dryer if so equipped, but that is still pretty intense compared with the Euro. Hope this helps!

Bryan

 

[panthera]

sunlight...scotland

Well, ok. I suppose my Scottish relations were hiding that with the circuit breakers the last time I was over.
Seriously, some US dryers have higher temperatures than their euro-cousins. But this varies from brand to brand and model to model. Since I dry my silk shirts in my folk's US dryer back in the US regularly - and they have never been damaged yet - I don't think this need necessarily be a problem.
The best thing to do is simply to get the info sheets and find out at what temperatures the clothes are dried.
Whirlpools, by the way, run between 120-150°F and have "high" limiters at around 250-300°, but that is for emergency cuttoff.
This is more or less the same as in European units.
I am fascinated to hear of the wonderful Whirlpool quality, is that reality or just protest against my opinions...given the cost and hassle of repairs, I do hope you are right and I am wrong.
Seriously, the only real difference between the two - apart from my personal impression that the US dryers dry with fewer wrinkles - is that the European units are frequently limited by the capacity of the condensing units...you can only remove so much moisture over a given span of time, so heating the air above a certain temperature will not improve drying times.

 

[brisnat81]

Quality of WP TL machines - These are US not European

Cant be questioned Keven. The machines last the required 5 - 15 years depending on usage and just keep chugging along. Yes they can rough and without Quiet Pack are incredibley loud. But if you dont overload they do a good job at a reasonable price.

However the rest of the European Whirlpool lineup, I agree with you wholeheartedly.

The design of the Whirlpool TL machines is 20+ years old, and the new machines are no less reliable than when they first introduced the DD. If anything they have become more reliable with the reintroduction of the neutral drain and the timer fixing to prevent wash to spin without the pause.

 

[panthera]

can't argue that, Nathan,

the US Whirlpools are better than the European - but then, that is truly not saying very much. I guess I am just so spoiled by the quality of AEG, LG and Miele that I have no patience with stuff which, in the English speaking world - is seen as perfectly ok.
Just a matter of focus, I guess. And, of course, lots of folks on this site (me included) loved the earlier machines (I might get snarky about the rollermatics, but I love the real GM products). I still have to remind myself anytime I see a new Frigidaire that it is not what I remember it as...and many here can't tell the differnce between my liking of vintage Whirlpool products and their current "white-goods". Yesterday I moderated an interesting seminar for top level managers on intercultural communication skills (big kudos here to Maytagbear for his research help) and one of the topics which a German marketing exec. raised (small fish, really - company just does a few billion Euro turnover annually) was the tremendous responsiveness the Chinese had shown to quality issues in the last two years. At this rate, his firm would soon be able to sell to all regions of the world, and not limit the Chinese finished goods to their US subsidiaries.
That one kinda made me think...

 

[lavalux]

Mark

Glad you've decided to go with the Whirlpool TL - I reckon you'll be very satisfied with it. As you had an Admiral TL before I assume you know you'll need good hot water pressure and a wider drainpipe than usual as American TLs pump out a lot faster than European machines and a normal drain pipe will flood.

The slow spin speed is a drawback. But despite being only 640rpm or thereabouts the clothes come out drier than you might expect. Perhaps not too much of a problem at this time of year when you can line dry, but you might want a separate spin dryer for the winter months - or a gas American dryer! The other thing I love about the Whirlpool top loader is that if you want to spin only something you've handwashed you just put it in the drum, turn it on, it starts immediately and you can take it out a minute later and it's done. Meanwhile a front loader would still be tumbling back and forth for a few minutes before even starting to spin!

It's interesting to note how easy it now is in the UK to buy American fridges which even ten years ago were hard to come buy - in fact, they're a bit of a "must have" item (if you're bothered by that kinda thing)...I wonder if the same will happen with USA washing machines?! Most visitors to this house are always commenting on how they love the TL and would love to get one - they just didn't know you could get them over here!

Gordon

 

[lavamat_jon]

I certainly doubt that American toploaders will become very popular, due to the costs fo energy and water over here plus the fact that the majority of the population are environmentally concious - however I wouldn't be surprised if we see these 10 kilo frontloaders becoming more popular seeming as capacity is an ever increasing concern of most washer buyers in the UK today.

Jon

 

[panthera]

the majority of British people are environmentally concious

I guess it must just be my relations and friends in the British Isles, but do you really mean that? Or only relative to the Americans.
Over here in Germany, we have the feeling that the UK will do anything they can to water down or hinder the implementation of environmentally friendly legislation.
I am not trying to start another flame war here but am truly curious.
Thanks
Keven

 

[hoovermatic]

UK will do anything they can to water down implementation of

That's very interesting 'cos from what I am reading in the broadsheets, the boot is very much on the other foot. Amazing how perceptions are distorted in all aspects!!

 

[panthera]

very true...

Sadly, this is so. There is a tendency in Germany, Italy, France, the BeNeLux and so on to see the UK as dragging their feet and being intentionally obstructionist. Partly, this is because of Margaret Thatcher.
And partly because of the shameful way the German and UK governments actively worked to destroy the reputations of vets and scientists who warned against Mad Cow Disease. Nearly all European politicians are corrupt, greedy pigs whose only interest is in enriching themselves at the cost of the people whom they ostensibly serve. But the UK and Germany have been cursed with agricultural sectors which yield an unholy influence in Brussels even worse than most countries.
Of course, now I suppose someone from the UK will write in that this is all wrong and BSE was just a myth...

 

[chestermikeuk]

No, No, No

I will write from the UK and say "get off you soapbox" all of us here from the UK have a brain, from what I see in print, use it well....discussions are fine, you just seem to have loads of bags of potato chips on your shoulders, particlarly around UK stuff!!!!

Chocolate pound cake in the Kenwood, and smoothies ready to go!!!!

 

[panthera]

no actually not - just

Everytime I post anything remotely suggesting that some aspect of life in the UK not be quite at wonderful as the Board of Tourism implies it is I get back a billion bashing flaming e-mails...most suggesting, well, never mind.
By all means make the smoothies, I'll stop by my aunt's little isle and see if'n she has any of the 20 year old single malt lying around and we can convince each other of our moral righteousness.

 

[hoovermatic]

Well you won't get flamed by me because I am going to agree with most of what you are saying as it is true. Who says that BSE was a myth? They must be living in a cave or totally deluded. I particularly agree with your statement:

"Nearly all European politicians are corrupt, greedy pigs whose only interest is in enriching themselves at the cost of the people whom they ostensibly serve"

I have been saying this for years and their unapproved 'accounts' will back this seemingly sweeping statement up.

I think the link to Margaret Thatcher is a bit of a weak argument for anyone to use in 2006. She was the right PM at the time but the world has moved on, thank God

 

[panthera]

Paul,

You are right, of course. Guess my age is showing, or the fact that I just read her first autobiography a few weeks ago.
I can not say I like the way she reduced the North of England to bitter poverty nor the way she dealt with the unions.
At the same time, I would be hard put to come up with a better answer to the truly pressing problems which confronted her.

 

[hoover3060]

Hi Gorden

Thanks for your comments.
Yes I am aware with regards to the water feed and drainage.I found this out AFTER I had got the Admiral.At the time I purchased it I didnt know much about American top loaders and the need for good water pressure and drainage.The website didnt explain it in those days like they do now.I knew it was way to big for my small flat but I was in the "I must have one" frame of mind and went ahead and got it.
It used to take an hour to fill on the Hot wash and on the warm wash it would fill with 95% cold because the hot was so slow.I ended up having to fill it manually so I could get a warm temperature. Draining...lol That was fun aswell.Of course the drainage system I had couldnt cope with it and it would empty down one standpipe and then the water would shoot up the one for the dishwasher! What I had to do in the end just so I could get it to empty was put a hole through the wall into the bathroom and have the standpipe emptying into the bath! (Thankfully the bath was directly behind the kitchen wall the top loader was on).I did get many people comment on this strange pipe going from the kitchen into the bath.But like you say in your post I also got many comments from people who wanted a top loader and thought they were great.

The new house has a large combination boiler in the garage where the top loader will be so I know it will be ok on the water side of it.The drainage is still something we wont know until we move in. Hopefully we will be able to sort something out but it all depends on whats there when we get there.Im really hoping it will be ok and I can go ahead and order one.If we cant get the larger drainage system sorted it will have to be a Front loader we get instead...boo hoo.

Regards
Mark

 

[chestermikeuk]

Drainage!!

Mark

I`ve seen a device mentioned on here (cant find the thread) where you can link a large bore drain pipe into a small one, looks like a megga tall pipe with a vent and the washer pipe sits mid way as usual, allows the volume of water to run through but not overflow etc....

Guys can you point us to the thread or explain????

Mark I think you could certainly rig something up here as well!!

Last year at the convention I used Scotts new Sears Kenmore TOL washer, five speeds , multi rinse etc, was really impressed, I`m not sure if the fast speed is the same as the Whirlpool here, if it is it may be a little to fast for everyday but the rollover was fab,

have a look, Mike