New Whirlpool Top Loader - UK- Info needed please

[appnut]

Wash performance rating of G. I wish more people in the US would realize just how much better a front loader is, but no we have some stubborn people who think water has to be everywhere. It just kills me, laughing hysterically, people on the other side of the pond are just clammeroring to have one of our washers--why, when the testing performance evidence is put right before them in black & white. Granted a top loader is good for some applications as well as a front loader is suprior in other applications. Peter, I haven't even used my max of 14 minutes wash in YEARS. I wouldn't have any tidy whites, tees, or socks left lol.

 

[agiflow]

All part of living in a democracy. Thank goodness we still have choices...as it always should be.

 

[lavalux]

Newly signed up here, but been reading the forums for a while - feel like I know some of you already! Anyway, I felt I had to at least offer some comment in favour of the much maligned American top loader.

I am one of the the rare breed in the UK that uses a USA TL (Whirlpool LBR8543) as my main washing machine. I used to live in a shared house that had Maytag TLs and liked those, and after many years of using regular (Hotpoint and Hoover) front loaders I got the TL plumbed in properly.

I must say I love it and I get consistently excellent results with a bio washing powder or liquid such as Persil or Arial - no need for bleach. I have not missed the facility of being able to heat the water in the machine to 60 degrees C or hotter - in the seven years I had my old front loader I never once used the 95 degree wash. The water in the hot tank is more than adequate, and I can always pop the boiler on for a while if i need a quick boost to the temperature.

I know they use more water, but I usually "topped up" the front loader from the tap anyway, via a hose into the soap dispenser, as I do feel clothes need to splash around a bit, particularly if you do a full load in a modern front loader.

The other thing I like about it is that it is so low tech! I cannot be bothered with all the bells and whistles found on your average FL nowadays, most of which most consumers rarely, if ever, use anyway ("I do it all at 40 degrees" is a common approach). If FLs for home use bore more resemblance to the IPSO and Primus washers in launderettes then perhaps I'd have one of them - the whole lot done (with two washes) in about 40 mins. Superb! And good results too. Just like front loaders used to be in the UK in the 1970s...

Gordon

PS: chose the name Lavalux as this was the AEG twintub I grew up with - this was Aberdeen in the 1970s and everyone (well all my Mum's friends!) seemed to have the same...

 

[hoovermatic]

Agree with you about modern FL cycle times - as I have said here before, my machine has a quick wash that comes in at a time busting 90 mins!!! I still have my Hotpoint TL in storage and am torn between plumbing it in or keeping the h-axis TL as the water consumption is so low and yet it washes so well. The cycle times are absurd - no machine I have ever owned takes as long.

 

[mrboilwash]

Water Consumtion

Let`s not forget the Whirlpool is rated 8 kg and most of us Europeans think in 5 kg dimensions.
So, 165 l : 8 kg = 20,6 l per kg
20,6 l x 5 kg = 103 l ,so it only doubles the water compared with a frontloader
The average new 5kg Frontloader uses about 50 l, and we all know an extrarinse is almost indespensable to get good results.
Some of our older Frontloaders without intermediate spins even used up to 140 l.
But as a big fan of high temperatures and low powerbills I`d rather stay away from it.

 

[MrX]

The extraction performance might be quite acceptably ok given that the machine would have a larger diameter drum and would therfore exert higher G-force on the laundry at a lower RPM.

It still wouldn't come anywhere near a 1800rpm FL though.

I would agree though, their wash performance is no where near as good as a FL. Particularly on stains. TL's rely on bleach.

 

[hairybruinuk]

Love Mine

Hi Bob Kevin here, I am sorry I have to disagree with you. I love my top loader. The quick wash cycle lasts 20 mins, ariel washing powder gets the every day things very clean on the quick wash. With regards to towels sheets and tea towels, well they go in on the regular soak then heat up the water cycle. I dont have to hang around for the lid to unlock at the end of the wash, and if I miss that odd sock lift the lid and pop it in

 

[MrX]

You can do all of the above perfectly well with a miele FL.

Quickwash is very fast.
You don't wait at the end of the wash to open the door.
The door will open anytime it's safe to open. i.e. waterlevel below door rim, not too hot and not spin drying. So you can add a sock / whatever if you forget.
Cleaning results: Excellent.

 

[vivalalavatrice]

If...then

I wonder why while US people are discontinuing to use their TL agitating machines, switching to wash in tumbling washers like they call FL, we are still considering that washing system.
Only Whirlpool UK in the entire Europe has got in the catalogue a vertical axis tub washer I think, though there's a tumbling TL too.
I think agitator should be the "history" of washing system. Here we left the agitator in the fifties, while in France many years before, at the beginning of the XX sec...
So why is still there in UK agitator, while even in US they are considering to save water and energy too???

I believe that you can find often those machines in the coin.op laundry because they are faster than any other commercial laundry, but I'm seeing that either there, especially in the new commercial laundry, the washers are tumbling washers, at least here in Italy...

I HAVE ALWAYS LOVED, AND I STILL LOVE AGITATING WASHERS, FOR THE FASCINATING WASHING SYSTEM AND SPRAY RINSING SYSTEM, AND FOR MNAY OTHER REASONS BUT I HAVE TO SAY VERY HEARTBROKEN, THAT COMSUMING IN SUCH A LOT OF WATER AND ENERGY THEY CANNNOT STILL RUNNING... WOULD BE GOOD FOR COLLECTIONIST ONLY! AND FOR WASH-IN OF COURSE!!!

That's all, hoping none feels offended...
Good Bye
Diomede

 

[panthera]

hey furry Kevin-the-bear,

I don't deny that TLs can get stuff clean (though this one sure seems to have its problems...) it is just that it bothers me to think of the water and energy being wasted compared to the same amount of cleaning available in a more efficient TL or FL.
Certainly I am not consistent - although I stopped driving cars over here in Europe in 1989, and try not to do too much damage to the environment - I freely admit that if I had the opportunity, I would run vintage washers all day.
Part of what bothers me is simply the lack of interest in the rest of the whole planet which - forgive me - so many English and American folks have. You don't have to be a hysterical Green to know that we are in deep trouble and it is going to get much worse before it gets any better.

 

[agiflow]

Then go to any industrial park as soon as the weather starts getting warm. It's a joke to think that where there is plenty of water i or anyone should have to conserve.

I hardly doubt a TL washer will destroy "mother earth" of her most precious resource. Give me a break, water is continuously renewable. The same amount on the planet a million years ago still is the same today. Oh yeah, the polar ice caps are melting, no?

 

[DADoES]

I can see *way* more energy waste in the building where I work than my toploader will ever cause. Several toploaders taken together would be a different situation ... but then there are lots more wasteful buildings out there, too.

I wouldn't mind having a frontloader, for pillows and overstuffed bedspreads and such, and just to see what they can do.

 

[mrboilwash]

It makes a hell lot of a sense to conserve water in areas where is plenty of water.
The more the dirt, chemicals and whatever in waste water is diluted with clean water the more you keep the sewage treatment plants busy. None of them can remove all of the unwanted stuff, so there is still more than enough work for nature to cope with, before you can drink the water again and the cycle is closed.
The point is that conserving water means better quality of clean water at the end, even if pollution entry stays at the same level.

 

[washboy2005]

My mum's considering a Whirlpool Top loader....

To Replace our old Hoover washer dryer, its a bit past its expiration date now, its served its purpose, albeit with many repairs but its done well for the abuse its had.

For everyday lightly soiled items a top loader would be okay wouldnt it?, the only really dirty things we wash are socks, and I know a good stain remover i can soak them in before hand so i shouldnt really have any problems with cleaning should I?

Also... for the average load of Dark Cottons, thick tshirts, jeans, underwear, what would be the maximum wash time you reccomend?

My Friend's mum owns a Whirlppol top laoder the same as the one pictured below and she is overly happy with it especialy the wash times, as she does have to wash for 9 people, her opininon of them is kinda swaying me closer to them also. (just thought id add this bit)

Many Thanks
Dan

 

[panthera]

Ok, if ... then

Dan, if'n it really-o truly-o has to be a top loader, then there are a few things to take into consideration.
1) The mechanical abrasion is so much greater than in a FL that you just can not wash clothes very long. A gentle wash cycle is ok for 15 minutes, otherwise you should not go beyond 10-12 max.
2) Since the water temperature can't rise gradually, as it should for enzymes to work best, you need to pre-soak really dirty stuff for at least 20, better 40 minutes in water around 105°F.
3) Despite their obscene waste of water, TL do a very poor job of rinsing when there is over-sudsing. It is much better to use low-suds detergent and soft water (softened if you have to) then to overdose detergent to make up for hard water. A second or "deep rinse" is a very good idea.
4) The spin speeds of TLs are very low. If you are going to be running your clothes through a tumbler, than either get a spinner running at 1800RPM or so or at least hang the clothes up to dry for a few hours first.
5) TL are much better at balancing than FLs are, but they still benefit a lot from being balanced.
6) Whereas most FL in Europe have at least some ruidmentary "aqua stop" or some such protection, TLs don't. Always turn off the water hoses when you are done washing.
7) Do not overload. A FL can still do an ok job slightly overloaded...a TL needs turnover to clean adequately.
8) Borax, Washing Soda and oxygen bleach make an even greater difference in cleaning efficiency in Tls than in Fls - that super short washing cycle needs all the help it can get. Pre-treat, pre-soak and stuff can still come out clean. Not as
9) The total wash times in a TL are so much shorter than in a FL you can wash more efficiently. But the old rule still applies: Hottest first, then cooler.
Hope this helps - I am still convinced a TL is a mistake, but since you asked, what the hell, might as well make the best of it.

 

[panthera]

Glenn,

It is not a case of being a hysterical tree-hugger. It is something which, in your country once was held in high esteem: Waste not, want not.
No, one TL will not kill dear mother earth. (I don't worry about her, red in tooth and claw she will solve the problem - us - soon enough).
But why of why should we use double or triple the amount of water and chemicals and energy to achieve lower quality results than a modern Fl gives?
Conservation is seen by many people in the US as being somehow a giving up of quality-of-life. Certainly it can be that way, but this is not such an issue. As for the ice melting, I believe even your country's scientist have finally acknowledged that this is not a good thing.
What on earth did I do to push your buttons here? Why defend a wasteful lifestyle? Tell me, so I can apologize.

 

[peterh770]

And beware the sour towels! Was visiting over the weekend, and in the bathroom washing my hands, the towel had that tell-tale sour musty smell. I wandered about a bit and found the laundry room. My suspicions were confirmed - Kenmore. Why does it seem that all the non-laundry buff people I know who have WP/KM TL machines have sour towels?

 

[agiflow]

I have had 2 WP made machines and never had a problem with sour towels. What the hell are people doing, cleaning up cat piss with them?

Write to the manufacturers who are still producing TL washers and let them know all the reasons they should not make those style of machines anymore.

It is an on going debate that usually leads to bickering where nothing gets solved. The TL vs. FL debate will probably always creep up from time to time on a forum such as this.

Let people be happy with whatever makes "their boat float".

 

[DADoES]

Interesting, I saw a post @ THS from someone claiming that a TL is not aggressive enough to clean clothes properly, that a FL is more aggressive/abrasive from the fabric slapping against the drum.
<blockquote>The FL washer cleans via friction and the movement of the fibers rather than just swishing them around. Think of it like cleaning a bathroom fixture (sink,toilet,etc) and cleaning by filling the basin by just using a little bit of water and a scrub brush (FL washer) vs. filling the whole basin of water and sticking a food mixer in there to agitate the water (TL washer.)</blockquote>

 

[panthera]

well nonsense

That is just plain silly. I have used both and there is no way on earth a FL comes even close to the mechanical action available in a (not overloaded) TL.
With enough hot water, enough detergent, fast-acting enzymes, good oxygen bleach and not so full there is no turn-over, a TL can clean just as well as a FL - just faster.
Faster, because of the increased mechanical action.
The real question is whether the exhorbitant use of water, energy and chemicals is balanced by the savings in time.
FLs clean better because they take longer, heat water more slowly (exactly what enzymes "want") and expose the clothes to higher concentrations of soil-releasing agents over a longer period of time.
My mom's Unimatic used 1/3 the water of this Whirlpool thingamagummy and spun the clothes dry at nearly double the speed. They came out clean and sweet - and nearly dry. It ain't the TL/FL conflict, it is the rotten quality of the current traditional TLs...