New WP FL lineup

[henene4]

Messaged with appnut for several months about these machines now awaiting their rollout and they appear to finally be getting ready.
Official launch probably will be with CES in January.

Hope I haven't posted about these already and forgot lol.

At least the Whirlpool branded machines pull over their What to Wash/How to Wash user logic.
The drawer has been redesigned and so has been the automatic dosing.
Possibly there is recirculation now.
Tubs are bigger, spins slower, temperatures over all apperantly lowered.

What is funny is that apparently the Overnight Wash&Dry has been beefed up.
The manual reads like more items could be added and as if there might even be a heater involved.

Maytag has further been cut down in its lineup it appears and their cycle selection is different to Whirlpool as well.

Here's 2 models in Maytag FL listings:
https://www.maytag.com/washers-and-dryers/washers/front-load-washers.html

Here's a WP model:
https://www.appliancesconnection.co...TRJC&cjevent=7c5111f5f36c11e880a600350a180512

There was a model that popped up on Whirlpools site a few days ago but has disappeared again by now.

So keeping your eyes open would probably get some more detailed information on the not to distant future.

Any questions, opinions or information would be welcome!

 

[tomdawg]

whirlpool Line up

Nice! I do know whirlpool lowered their spin speed in the last models (the tinted door version) I talked to a whirlpool rep of why they did this, their reason was fabric care- makes sense. Im anxious to see them in person!

 

[appnut]

Some WP models appear to have access to the pump trap to be able to clean it out.

 

[gansky1]

It's an attractive machine. 5 cu ft is a new level for WP, did they make any f/l larger than 4.5 until this?

 

[appnut]

Well,,,, my 1st generation direct drive 2011 model, on the front of the dispenser drawer, it states "5 cu. ft. I.E.C Equivalent capacity", but I think that worked out to actually be 4.5

 

[tomdawg]

Matching Dryer

The matching dryer is only 7.4 CU Ft... I'm disappointed.. I think the more room, the better.

 

[logixx]

Aha

So they finally made it onto Whirlpool's homepage. We discussed these many months ago but they were only shown on the Digital Library site.

 

[appnut]

Alexander, only the new all-in-one combination washer dryer is there, that I see. That model was put on there in August or September. The rest of the newer models, I don't see yet, in their line-up of front loaders. Unless you're seeing something I'm overlooking.

 

[logixx]

https://www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?75015

Found the old thread ^

 

[mark_wpduet]

about time

I feel like it's been forever since Whirlpool updated their machines.
Please, dear God please
A coin trap
A recirculation pump
A heater
Some cycles that use a lot of water (if needed) that are NOT delicate cycles.

 

[yogitunes]

'lower spin speed = fabric care'

who, how, why?....

more like, WTH?.....when has higher spin speeds caused excessive fabric wear?....

today, most everyone uses a dryer, to me, the higher the spin speed, the less drying required....even is clothing were to wrinkle, a few minutes in the dryer will take care of that...

I select the highest spin speed on all of my machines....never had a need to spin slower...

this sort of goes back to the 'Duet Sport'....defaulting to slower spins speeds for less vibration....

 

[stricklybojack]

.
Lower spin speed suggests to me lower build strength. Or at least that Whirlpool has thrown in the towel on programming their machines to distribute the load better.

 

[johnb300m]

I think 1200rpm will be more than enough for a massive diameter drum like that.

 

[launderess]

IIRC 1200rpms

Seems to be the sweet spot for most new model front loaders now a days.

Studies have long proven while there is great benefit going from 900rpms to 1200rpms in terms of residual moisture after extraction; there is a sliding scale to where things pretty much drop off a cliff after say 1400rpms.

There was a time when everyone (at least in Europe) seemed to be offering 1600rpm or even 1800rpm final spin speeds. Besides no real great improvement in terms of extraction over 1200 or 1400, it does create wear and tear on the washer if done often enough. More so if loads tend to run unbalanced.

Miele washers and dryers of late vintage have a chart giving residual moisture levels at various final spin speeds, there you can see there isn't that much of a difference in terms of results.

Suppose for those using condenser or heat pump dryers doing a heavy load of towels or other thick and absorbent textile at 1800rpms *might* prove useful. But for a standard gas or full powered electric dryer not so much.

 

[henene4]

Well, kinda yes, kinda no

Ever since the EU label washers have to have their extraction judged.

That happens in % residual moisture. That means each percent of residual moisture in that measure equates to 1% of the laundry dry mass still contained as water in a load.

So if you had a 10 pound load at 50% residual moisture, that should be about 5 pounds of water in the load bringing the total weight to 15 pounds.

For a long time, Mieles dryer manuals used to list cotton normal dry cycle usage data for several spin speeds in conjunction to which percentage of residual moisture that would equate to.

Of course rpm isn't the only thing that affects that spin result (drum diameter, load size, balancing, spin time), but there are a few key steps that Miele liked to point out.

One could usually say that at 800rpm a load of cotton would hold 70% residual water in an EU FL.
At 1000rpm that would be 60%, so a 10% drop for 200rpm more.
At 1200rpm, that would go down to 53%.
At 1400rpm 50%.
At 1600rpm 44%.
1800rpm and 2000rpm machines often reached similar results of either 43% or 42%.

Construction wise, forces aren't really to great of a concern as you would have a safety factor of 2 on that probably.
And you can buy bearings according to their estimated life in revolutions, so you might just equip one step up if you see need.
Motors long have been past being a problem for those speeds.

A bigger concern was that the frequency of vibration is drastically more concerning once you pass 1000rpm.
At 1000rpm the tub oscillates at just below 17Hz as a main frequency. That is usually just below human hearing.
At 1200rpm it oscillates at 20Hz, the beginning of human hearing for most people.
Thus, the jump from 800rpm to 1000rpm created far less noise concern then going from 1000 to 1200.
Force grows linear with acceleration which in it self grows linear with increased speed.
Noises don't work that way.

Thus, a washer spinning at 1200rpm had to consider different dampening and balancing.
Once past there, the issue was solved easily by adapting your designs for each frequency.

And clearly, the sweet spot for extraction was round about 1400/1600 rpm.

While 1400 rpm are perfectly fine if you dry some stuff in the dryer but hang most stuff, 1600rpm can make a noticeable difference when drying many larger loads.
Keep in mind for today's typical washers in the EU with their 8kg labeling, 50% residual moisture from 1400rpm would be equal to 4l of water at 4kg mass, while the faster 1600rpm spin would cut that down to 3.52l or 3.52kg, or more then a 10% difference in water content between the two.

Even in vented dryers that can be significant. Just check out this current EU Miele vented dryer manual:
https://www1.miele.com/pmedia/ZGA/TX2070/9871920-000-01_9871920-01.pdf

On page 51, the usage data shows that for a 7kg (about 15.5lbs) cotton load, the difference between 1400rpm and 1600rpm would mean about 8min time and 0.35kWh energy savings of a 81min cycle that uses 3.4kWh.
That is about 10%.

For the US, the same would be true.

Interestingly enough, most vented dryers use about the same energy per unit moisture removed.
Main savings here are achieved with more air and less heat.

Looking at washers and using an online calculator tool shows that 1200rpm US washer probably has a slightly lower g-force rating compared a EU 1400rpm machine, but catches that up with increased load size as well, so both should come out to 50% residual moisture give or take.
Those bigger load sizes also mean that a US FL has to endure far greater stresses then a EU FL.

However keep in mind that going from 1000rpn to 1400rpm on a 50cm diameter tub increases the g-force from about 280g to 550g. Going from 1400 to 1600 lifts that to about 720g.
So the forces do increased drastically.

 

[henene4]

Actually

Mieles current heat pump dryer lineup still features that same chart section on page 64:

https://www.miele.co.uk/forms2/uk/sa/manuals-125.aspx?mNo=10753061&asDownload=1

So this an A+++ rated dryer (top energy label rating) with a rated 8kg (about 17.6lbs) capacity.

On a load spun at 1400rpm with 50% residual moisture, it uses 1.20kWh and takes 152 minutes.
At 1600rpm/44% that drops to 1.05kWh and 136min.

That is a saving of 16 minutes and 0.15kWh, or 11.5% time and 12.5% energy.

 

[logixx]

After reading the manuals, I prefer the more classic interface of the Maytag. The Whirlpool must be a washer/dryer as it offers drying cycles via the LCD screen.

 

[appnut]

The Maytag has an overnight wash & dry cycle too. There appears to be a true combination, that's the WFC9820, a larger version of the 24" version that was released in August or September. The WFC9820 appears to have a tub size rating of 4.5 cu. ft. and the WFW9820 a tub size of 5.0 cu. ft.

 

[henene4]

WFC WFW

W hirlpool
F rontload
W asher

W hirlpool
F rontload
C ombination

Here's a site already offering them:
https://www.appliancesconnection.co...TRJC&cjevent=e8a87457f49611e880d101260a18050e

Including a user manual download:
http://static.appliancesconnection.com/attachments/D5bfda91519eaa.pdf