bradfordwhite
Well-known member
Now that's progress.
Stinky gas should never have been allowed in our homes.
Stinky gas should never have been allowed in our homes.
New York Banning gas in All new construction StateWide
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Well my sense of smell is bad or maybe I need to be in an area like that where the fumes of natural gas are concentrated filling up the air like that...
Hope there's some area in the future where natural gas is still alive and well and constantly burning...
-- Dave
Hope there's some area in the future where natural gas is still alive and well and constantly burning...
-- Dave
The Irony!
They closed down Indian Point only to have Cricket Valley Energy take its place.
This ban serves to further increase natural gas consumption.
You can't make this stuff up.
They closed down Indian Point only to have Cricket Valley Energy take its place.
This ban serves to further increase natural gas consumption.
You can't make this stuff up.
Will these new homes be able to have wood burning fireplaces, or wood or pellet stoves for extra heat? I know certain parts of New York get mighty cold and with bad weather tend to lose power on occasion.
Good, move by New York
It looks like a well written law that allows for exemptions where needed.
Shutting down the nuclear plant was a good move. Eventually all nuclear plants in the US will be shut down as they have a pretty short working life expectancy.
It cost about 1/10 as much to generate electricity with solar and wind as it does with nuclear so there’s not much future for nuclear.
With electric appliances becoming so efficient natural gas really doesn’t have much advantage and actually makes it more expensive to build homes.
Heat pumps cost less than gas furnaces and You have to have air-conditioning anyway, electric stoves have always cost less than gas, stoves and they’re cheaper to install, and now with heat pump water heaters. They’re just as cheap to operate as a gas and last for longer than a gas water heater.
Even gas clothes dryer’s are going to get a run for the money with heat pump dryers, which was the last good reason to have gas in the home anyway was for the dryer.
There will be court challenges and changes in the law but it’s a good start. I hope Maryland does something similar soon. John
It looks like a well written law that allows for exemptions where needed.
Shutting down the nuclear plant was a good move. Eventually all nuclear plants in the US will be shut down as they have a pretty short working life expectancy.
It cost about 1/10 as much to generate electricity with solar and wind as it does with nuclear so there’s not much future for nuclear.
With electric appliances becoming so efficient natural gas really doesn’t have much advantage and actually makes it more expensive to build homes.
Heat pumps cost less than gas furnaces and You have to have air-conditioning anyway, electric stoves have always cost less than gas, stoves and they’re cheaper to install, and now with heat pump water heaters. They’re just as cheap to operate as a gas and last for longer than a gas water heater.
Even gas clothes dryer’s are going to get a run for the money with heat pump dryers, which was the last good reason to have gas in the home anyway was for the dryer.
There will be court challenges and changes in the law but it’s a good start. I hope Maryland does something similar soon. John
bradfordwhite
Well-known member
As I got gas for my car this afternoon at a gas station next to the Walmart, I looked over to my left and there was this not too bright looking 40something thin guy literally smoking while pumping gas.
As I got in my car to quickly decide if I should get out of there as fast as I could I saw him get into his older model suv and start to take off.
It was both serious and stereotypically funny at the same time.
As a species a human's collective strength is only as strong as the weakest link.
As I got in my car to quickly decide if I should get out of there as fast as I could I saw him get into his older model suv and start to take off.
It was both serious and stereotypically funny at the same time.
As a species a human's collective strength is only as strong as the weakest link.
there was this not too bright looking 40something thin guy literally smoking while pumping gas.
That was pretty common occurrence on the 1980's and back. Some even kept the engine running while smoking and filling up. Yeah, not too bright though. I don't mind an occasional clearing of the gene pool just as long as I'm not around to be affected.
That was pretty common occurrence on the 1980's and back. Some even kept the engine running while smoking and filling up. Yeah, not too bright though. I don't mind an occasional clearing of the gene pool just as long as I'm not around to be affected.
It's a start.
This is for new construction only. Without some sort of rebate, there will be millions upon millions of gas stoves in use for the foreseeable future.
This is for new construction only. Without some sort of rebate, there will be millions upon millions of gas stoves in use for the foreseeable future.
California has banned sale of new gas water and home heaters by about 2030. However gas stoves are not currently included in the ban, AFAIK.
I much prefer cooking with gas over electric. Not that I do a whole lot of cooking these days, and my wall oven is electric. I do have a spare gas range (Modern Maid) that I'm waiting to test and perhaps to replace the antique Frigidaire electric range in the patio kitchen with. I already replaced the electric cooktop in the main house kitchen with a Frigidaire "Gas on Glass" number over 20 years ago. I also snagged a relatively new (less than 10 years) spare gas fired water heater from a neighbor who was moving out a few years ago.
I much prefer cooking with gas over electric. Not that I do a whole lot of cooking these days, and my wall oven is electric. I do have a spare gas range (Modern Maid) that I'm waiting to test and perhaps to replace the antique Frigidaire electric range in the patio kitchen with. I already replaced the electric cooktop in the main house kitchen with a Frigidaire "Gas on Glass" number over 20 years ago. I also snagged a relatively new (less than 10 years) spare gas fired water heater from a neighbor who was moving out a few years ago.
As a utility guy, I find this very interesting. For decades, ConEd pretty much ceded the cooking sector to gas because they've always sort of lived on the edge, electrical capacity speaking. I suppose the folks in planning are thinking that the gradual adaptation of electric cooking will both be easy on the electrical system and put some slack on the natural gas division.
Thats the whole problem with this electric conversion fallacy, our electric infrastructure grid doesnt just need an upgrade to withstand where the eggheads want to put this country transition wise, it needs a complete overhaul to withstand the demand that the end result will put on it and actually be able to stand it without the nonsense the pin heads in CA have done to their grids resulting in black outs, forced curtailing of consumption during peak hours or months the heat is at its worst. I dont think the people pushing that agenda in politics have even the remotest clue the time frame that would take to accomplish plus the monumental cost which would in the end be forced onto consumers as if rates arent already insane. I think the green crowd needs to take some pilgrimages to the other side of the planet and tell all those countries still polluting like its 1946 to get with it and help out instead of making life here pure hell and costing us much more cash. And the people pushing wind and solar like its adding so much refuse to admit it adds so little at this point in time to the national grid.
Excessive Over-dependence on Electricity may cause this:
Yes we surely don't want any kind of a massive blackout whether the summer of 2003, or November 9, 1965:
-- Dave
Yes we surely don't want any kind of a massive blackout whether the summer of 2003, or November 9, 1965:
-- Dave
Haha! 
That reminds me of this:
Dangerous Mission (1954) : r/Lineman (reddit.com)
(don't try at home, the fuse pull ring on modern cutouts is live between 2,400 and 19,920 volts, among other obvious reasons)
That reminds me of this:Dangerous Mission (1954) : r/Lineman (reddit.com)
(don't try at home, the fuse pull ring on modern cutouts is live between 2,400 and 19,920 volts, among other obvious reasons)
Electrical demand in the US
Has gone down overall year over a year for many years now.
This is happened even with the sales of electric cars and more and more heat pumps, etc., yes, eventually much more power will be needed as we convert more fully to electric cars and all electric homes.
But there’s still so much reduction going on every day with the conversion of lighting and more efficient appliances throughout the homes we’ve just scratch the surface of what we can save.
The future is also going to see much more solar, rooftop, and wind energy, yes, there’s always the possibility of blackouts always has been always will be when extreme weather conditions cause heavy power demand, if you want to protect yourself either get a generator if you still have natural gas or get a battery back up system you don’t have to have solar even to have this.
In any event, the power suppliers and companies will figure out where the power is going to come from. They always have in this country, and they always will having reliable electrical power is one of the least of the worlds problems in this country right now.
John
Has gone down overall year over a year for many years now.
This is happened even with the sales of electric cars and more and more heat pumps, etc., yes, eventually much more power will be needed as we convert more fully to electric cars and all electric homes.
But there’s still so much reduction going on every day with the conversion of lighting and more efficient appliances throughout the homes we’ve just scratch the surface of what we can save.
The future is also going to see much more solar, rooftop, and wind energy, yes, there’s always the possibility of blackouts always has been always will be when extreme weather conditions cause heavy power demand, if you want to protect yourself either get a generator if you still have natural gas or get a battery back up system you don’t have to have solar even to have this.
In any event, the power suppliers and companies will figure out where the power is going to come from. They always have in this country, and they always will having reliable electrical power is one of the least of the worlds problems in this country right now.
John
Technology to the rescue
In addition to what John says above, technology and market supply/demand issues are likely going to come to our rescue here.
There are companies out there right now that already selling "smart" circuit breaker panels that will allow a full electric home to operate on an existing 100 amp service. They do this by prioritizing the use of high-draw appliances. When the heat pump, water heater and electric dryer are all on at one time and you begin to preheat the oven for dinner, the water heater load is cycled off until the oven is preheated...and so on. On top of that, utilities will only get more sophisticated about load balancing to spread the charging of electric cars out and reduce the need for additional electrical infrastructure.
Heat pump water heaters show great promise, especially in the southern US and in northern homes with basements. Another technology that I just learned about that intrigues me is an electric induction range with a 4 kwh battery in it. This allows that range to "sip" power over long periods of time while still allowing that "punch" when you need to boil 6 quarts of water or preheat the oven to 450 to make that pizza. The manufacturer is claiming that the current battery technology will still have 80% capacity after 20 years of "normal" use. The market will decide if this is a viable product!
I'm middle-aged right now (51) and expect to see natural gas slowly (or maybe not slowly) disappear from US homes over the rest of my lifetime. You may be against the idea, but I think it will be like tube televisions. One day you'll just wake up and it'll be mostly gone. 95% of the population won't have noticed or care.
In addition to what John says above, technology and market supply/demand issues are likely going to come to our rescue here.
There are companies out there right now that already selling "smart" circuit breaker panels that will allow a full electric home to operate on an existing 100 amp service. They do this by prioritizing the use of high-draw appliances. When the heat pump, water heater and electric dryer are all on at one time and you begin to preheat the oven for dinner, the water heater load is cycled off until the oven is preheated...and so on. On top of that, utilities will only get more sophisticated about load balancing to spread the charging of electric cars out and reduce the need for additional electrical infrastructure.
Heat pump water heaters show great promise, especially in the southern US and in northern homes with basements. Another technology that I just learned about that intrigues me is an electric induction range with a 4 kwh battery in it. This allows that range to "sip" power over long periods of time while still allowing that "punch" when you need to boil 6 quarts of water or preheat the oven to 450 to make that pizza. The manufacturer is claiming that the current battery technology will still have 80% capacity after 20 years of "normal" use. The market will decide if this is a viable product!
I'm middle-aged right now (51) and expect to see natural gas slowly (or maybe not slowly) disappear from US homes over the rest of my lifetime. You may be against the idea, but I think it will be like tube televisions. One day you'll just wake up and it'll be mostly gone. 95% of the population won't have noticed or care.
panasonicvac
Well-known member
I happen to agree with Mike, there are some areas in my state where the power goes out alot and we just had one of the coldest winters ever recorded last year. That's a big concern to me.
bradfordwhite
Well-known member
#12
That's such a cute by totally non-sensical predicament that "Ol-LEEV-a" and Lisa Douglas find themselves in. lol.
No way in the world that service is up to code. lol
-------
It's also funny how people completely take for granted ALL-L-L the things that electricity does for us daily without much of a thought.
But yet find it fallible while at the same time thinking gas is near perfect?
Electric can also do all the GOOD things that gas does without any of the BAD things that gas brings with it.
Gas does so little. There are few applications for it in a home. Water heater, furnace, dryer, and stove are the main ones. Some have a gas fireplace and pool heater and that's about it. And most all these appliances only work if there is electric to power the controls that make the gas usable. lol.
It's not worth maintaining an extensive gas piping network that gets older by the day and is highly explosive just for these few applications.
PLUS
People can put solar panels and wind mills on their property and sell electric back into the electric grid.
There's no one making natural gas at home and selling it back to the utilities.
That's such a cute by totally non-sensical predicament that "Ol-LEEV-a" and Lisa Douglas find themselves in. lol.
No way in the world that service is up to code. lol
-------
It's also funny how people completely take for granted ALL-L-L the things that electricity does for us daily without much of a thought.
But yet find it fallible while at the same time thinking gas is near perfect?
Electric can also do all the GOOD things that gas does without any of the BAD things that gas brings with it.
Gas does so little. There are few applications for it in a home. Water heater, furnace, dryer, and stove are the main ones. Some have a gas fireplace and pool heater and that's about it. And most all these appliances only work if there is electric to power the controls that make the gas usable. lol.
It's not worth maintaining an extensive gas piping network that gets older by the day and is highly explosive just for these few applications.
PLUS
People can put solar panels and wind mills on their property and sell electric back into the electric grid.
There's no one making natural gas at home and selling it back to the utilities.
