oxydolfan1
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I remember watching the film and thinking how utterly glamorous that whole house was.
NO.. WIRE.... HANGEEERRRRRRRSSSS!!!!!!!!
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cehalstead
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glamorous house
....didn't we all???????????
....didn't we all???????????
oxydolfan1
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off topic slightly, but in the song "Drama" by Club 69, who is it who says, "All of these NON-CREATIVE people are just GETTING ON MY NERVES"...?
I wanna say Norma, but I've never seen "Sunset" straight through..
I wanna say Norma, but I've never seen "Sunset" straight through..
pturo
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Wire Hangers
If you watch the scene in Mommy Dearest closely, the wire hanger first found has a dry cleaner tag on it, the second one looks like old pants put away but maybe dry cleaned a while back. It does follow the book. Joan, being a "Catholic" seemed to think that cleanliness and order would make up for her other moral transgressions, and distance herself from her also promiscuios but messy mother.
If you watch the scene in Mommy Dearest closely, the wire hanger first found has a dry cleaner tag on it, the second one looks like old pants put away but maybe dry cleaned a while back. It does follow the book. Joan, being a "Catholic" seemed to think that cleanliness and order would make up for her other moral transgressions, and distance herself from her also promiscuios but messy mother.
jasonl
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JC
Joan was a mentally unstable, alcoholic. I know a few real-life alcoholics who can be just as bad and abusive. Mental problems and alcohol doesn't mix. Also, this was the time before antidepressants so she just had to suffer. I feel sorry for her yet I despise her for being such a b*tch. She does say one of the things that abusive mothers tell their kids "Look what I got for you/do for you... and this is how you treat me!?" Well, excuse'm moi!
It don't matter how glamorous the house is. It could've been a trailer for all I know. A palace can become a prison.
WWJD? Take a drink and slap Tina.
Joan was a mentally unstable, alcoholic. I know a few real-life alcoholics who can be just as bad and abusive. Mental problems and alcohol doesn't mix. Also, this was the time before antidepressants so she just had to suffer. I feel sorry for her yet I despise her for being such a b*tch. She does say one of the things that abusive mothers tell their kids "Look what I got for you/do for you... and this is how you treat me!?" Well, excuse'm moi!
It don't matter how glamorous the house is. It could've been a trailer for all I know. A palace can become a prison.
WWJD? Take a drink and slap Tina.
Mother had moodswing like that too.
Thats when she chased dad around the house and out into the yard beating him over the head with the wand and floor nozzle of a old westinghouse.. A real sight for all the neighborhood,That usually when i got a spanking with the floor brush...
Thats when she chased dad around the house and out into the yard beating him over the head with the wand and floor nozzle of a old westinghouse.. A real sight for all the neighborhood,That usually when i got a spanking with the floor brush...
westyslantfront
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I route for Joan all the way. Tina was fresh and insolent and deserved every beating she got from Joan. Yes, I agree that Monty in Mildred Fierce was very queeny. I think Joan was more butch than he was.
Ross
Ross
jasonl
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Tina was not one of her FAAAAAAANS!
Children learn from example.
Children learn from example.
Right on Jason
Right on! I Can vouch for that first hand! And the Alcohol problem you hit the nail on the head.. And dad got the blame for it all. He did not do this or that or not spend enough time at home.. I don't blame him I tried to stay gone as much as possible too.. Grandparents friends aunts.. We had a very nice policeman 3 houses down that let me stay at his house some.. Everyone in the neighborhood knew...
Right on! I Can vouch for that first hand! And the Alcohol problem you hit the nail on the head.. And dad got the blame for it all. He did not do this or that or not spend enough time at home.. I don't blame him I tried to stay gone as much as possible too.. Grandparents friends aunts.. We had a very nice policeman 3 houses down that let me stay at his house some.. Everyone in the neighborhood knew...
oxydolfan1
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Joan Crawford was not a Catholic...
In fact, she was with Christian Science, and indeed read passages from Mary Baker Eddy.
Interestingly, her favorite poem (if you will) was the "Desiderata".
In fact, she was with Christian Science, and indeed read passages from Mary Baker Eddy.
Interestingly, her favorite poem (if you will) was the "Desiderata".
oxydolfan1
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I'm challenged by a mood disorder, and to be honest, I think Joan definitely was too. I see it in how the kids never knew what to expect, how her trusted assistants would become visibly nervous the minute they detected any change in her demeanor.
That's why I stopped drinking. It really can leave the door open for dark forces to swoop in, and use my disorder to hurt those around me, and myself. I don't sensationalize it, or use it to excuse my own bad behavior, and I never lord it over my friends who do still exercise their freedom to drink. I also hate this whole idea of, "wow, now I've seen the light". I feel like, I'm just a little older, and a little more broken-in. I know what works, and what doesn't.
It's important for children to forgive their parents, and move forward.
I don't have any kids of my own, but I guess the best way to instruct children how to behave is to behave yourselves as parents first. Kids are probably influenced by their parents more than anyone else in the world, and they have only one infancy, one childhood, one adolescence....as a parent, you get one shot to get it right.
When you think of how important the whole job of parenting is in the grand scheme of things, you realize we're only just beginning to learn as a society how to get the job done right.
That's why I stopped drinking. It really can leave the door open for dark forces to swoop in, and use my disorder to hurt those around me, and myself. I don't sensationalize it, or use it to excuse my own bad behavior, and I never lord it over my friends who do still exercise their freedom to drink. I also hate this whole idea of, "wow, now I've seen the light". I feel like, I'm just a little older, and a little more broken-in. I know what works, and what doesn't.
It's important for children to forgive their parents, and move forward.
I don't have any kids of my own, but I guess the best way to instruct children how to behave is to behave yourselves as parents first. Kids are probably influenced by their parents more than anyone else in the world, and they have only one infancy, one childhood, one adolescence....as a parent, you get one shot to get it right.
When you think of how important the whole job of parenting is in the grand scheme of things, you realize we're only just beginning to learn as a society how to get the job done right.
brettsomers
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btw, Joan was raised catholic. and i didnt know anyone her had MET Joan? or her help? or do you mean the movie acting?
Which one?
Roman Catholic, Anglican Catholic, Church of
Poland Catholic? Technically the Orthodox Christian churces are catholic, as well.
Roman Catholic, Anglican Catholic, Church of
Poland Catholic? Technically the Orthodox Christian churces are catholic, as well.
sarah
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parenting
oxydolfan1 wrote:
It's important for children to forgive their parents, and move forward.
and
Kids are probably influenced by their parents more than anyone else in the world, and they have only one infancy, one childhood, one adolescence....as a parent, you get one shot to get it right.
Both are very well said. It is much easier to forgive a parent who acknowledges their mistakes, tries to grow and move forward than it is to forgive a parent who continues to hurt, blame and tear down their children. At 39, I finally have two beautiful children of my own. It took me years to decide to open my life to children, I had to accept that I would not be a perfect parent and realize that the important thing was not being a perfect parent, it was being a loving parent who was wiling to admit shortcomings, apologize to my children and grow with them while still being willing to be the parent who sets limits and retains the authority. Of course, as they grow into teenagers and young adults the authority relationship will shift, but at two and four, they need parents who are willing to be loving authority figures.
My mother is still threatening to disinherit me and has just willed four beautiful and very valuable paintings of Roman Catholic cardinals to a fast friend that she parties with because the friend "loves them so much." Neither my mother nor her friend is Roman Catholic, but I and her beautiful grandsons are. She's talking about giving the jewelry to her step grandchildren because they live "The LIFE" where they will wear it, and I am too fat to wear it anyway. I remind her that she has two grandsons for whom the possiblities are wide open and giving those things to others excludes them, then I calmly tell her that it's her stuff and whatever she wants to do with it is what I want her to do.
I tell her that no matter what she does, she is my mother, and I will love her and stand by her because that's what family does. I will never disinherit her or leave her even if she gives all of her things to others because I love her unconditionally.
What I don't tell her, because she would just get angry, defensive, go into denial and not speak to me for months is that I forgive her all cruel things she's said to me and about me, I forgive her for refusing to believe that the postman was a pedophile, and I forgive her for not protecting me, and I forgive her for sending me up to a hotel room with a 31 year old married linen salesman when I was 15, and on, and on. I forgive her all of it. It would feel better if I could tell her and she could hear me and say she is sorry. I think we could maybe have a better relationship if she could do that, but I know she can't. She is broken and sick, and she can't. So I forgive her; it is hard, but it heals me.
So, on one level parents only get one shot---it is true that children only have one infancy, one childhood, and one adolescence, but on a completely different level, we have an entire lifetime for growth and healing...maybe even longer. If the Heaven C. S. Lewis imagines his book _The Great Divorce_ is anything close to the Heaven God has waiting for us, we still have time after this life for heaing and reconciliation with God.
Boy, I got off topic didn't I? Thanks for listening.
Sarah
(who just dropped in to talk about Ironrites)
oxydolfan1 wrote:
It's important for children to forgive their parents, and move forward.
and
Kids are probably influenced by their parents more than anyone else in the world, and they have only one infancy, one childhood, one adolescence....as a parent, you get one shot to get it right.
Both are very well said. It is much easier to forgive a parent who acknowledges their mistakes, tries to grow and move forward than it is to forgive a parent who continues to hurt, blame and tear down their children. At 39, I finally have two beautiful children of my own. It took me years to decide to open my life to children, I had to accept that I would not be a perfect parent and realize that the important thing was not being a perfect parent, it was being a loving parent who was wiling to admit shortcomings, apologize to my children and grow with them while still being willing to be the parent who sets limits and retains the authority. Of course, as they grow into teenagers and young adults the authority relationship will shift, but at two and four, they need parents who are willing to be loving authority figures.
My mother is still threatening to disinherit me and has just willed four beautiful and very valuable paintings of Roman Catholic cardinals to a fast friend that she parties with because the friend "loves them so much." Neither my mother nor her friend is Roman Catholic, but I and her beautiful grandsons are. She's talking about giving the jewelry to her step grandchildren because they live "The LIFE" where they will wear it, and I am too fat to wear it anyway. I remind her that she has two grandsons for whom the possiblities are wide open and giving those things to others excludes them, then I calmly tell her that it's her stuff and whatever she wants to do with it is what I want her to do.
I tell her that no matter what she does, she is my mother, and I will love her and stand by her because that's what family does. I will never disinherit her or leave her even if she gives all of her things to others because I love her unconditionally.
What I don't tell her, because she would just get angry, defensive, go into denial and not speak to me for months is that I forgive her all cruel things she's said to me and about me, I forgive her for refusing to believe that the postman was a pedophile, and I forgive her for not protecting me, and I forgive her for sending me up to a hotel room with a 31 year old married linen salesman when I was 15, and on, and on. I forgive her all of it. It would feel better if I could tell her and she could hear me and say she is sorry. I think we could maybe have a better relationship if she could do that, but I know she can't. She is broken and sick, and she can't. So I forgive her; it is hard, but it heals me.
So, on one level parents only get one shot---it is true that children only have one infancy, one childhood, and one adolescence, but on a completely different level, we have an entire lifetime for growth and healing...maybe even longer. If the Heaven C. S. Lewis imagines his book _The Great Divorce_ is anything close to the Heaven God has waiting for us, we still have time after this life for heaing and reconciliation with God.
Boy, I got off topic didn't I? Thanks for listening.
Sarah
(who just dropped in to talk about Ironrites)
oxydolfan1
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Sarah, your story is a beautiful one, one of love and victory and transcendence.
You, your children and grandchildren sound like a beautiful family. I wish you many blessings and much love together, and thanks for your sharing your story. It was my lunchtime inspiration, lol!
You, your children and grandchildren sound like a beautiful family. I wish you many blessings and much love together, and thanks for your sharing your story. It was my lunchtime inspiration, lol!
oxydolfan1
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Uh, yes, Brettsomers, I was referring to her portrayal in the movie.
She was definitely involved in Christian Science.
She was definitely involved in Christian Science.
brettsomers
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She was definitely involved in Christian Science.
no argument there. she was raised catholic.
no argument there. she was raised catholic.
jasonl
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Commandment #11: Thou shalt not chastise thy child with coat hangers or bathroom cleaners.
oxydolfan1
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Whatever came of Christina Crawford? Or Diana Scarwid, for that matter?
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