Old AC Repair or Chuck?

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launderess

launderess

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Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage
Well after many vain efforts my 1990's Friedrich air conditioner simply wasn't working correctly so had the repair guy in to take a peek. His prompt answer after testing the unit was that the motor (compressor) is going, causing it to over heat and thus stop the unit from cooling.

Normally once a compressor goes on non-central air conditioners it is time to replace the unit as the repair costs normally equals what one would pay for a new AC. Only time replacement is usually done is if the unit is still under warranty and therefore parts and some or all labour costs are covered.

Spoke to a local AC parts store, and while they will sell me the part required for much less than what the repair service quoted, I'm stuck as one has to find a qualified HVAC person to do the work, and not all like the idea of using parts customers have bought themselves. Oh they will say it is about assuring quality and such, but am quite sure it is also about protecting their nice little mark-up.

Good news is that once the compressor is changed, the unit should be good to go for another 10 or 20 years. Just have to get over the $$$$ in repair bills. Also am rather fond of the older mechanical controled air conditioners, verus today's electronic thermostat models. The EER on wall units is not that much different on what is being sold today compared to my unit, as wall ACs by design are not the most efficient. There is also the added cost of having to change the sleeve/grille to suit a newer unit.

Thoughts?

TIA
L.
 
Difficult decision!

Friedrich is the highest quality window unit on the market today, IMO. If yours is otherwise in good condition, EER is up there, performance is otherwise positive, and matching the fit on a new one would be problematical, it'd perhaps be worth the effort to investigate a tech to handle the compressor install.

Note that Friedrich does still have a model line with mechanical controls. Or did last time I had a look-see.
 
You can always try Craig's List for an installer. I got my 40 gallon gas water heater installed by a guy from Craig's List and he was anything but a flake. Most of these people are moonlighters who are professionals trying to make some extra money. When I had my water heater replaced, and the one at my mom's, both done by Craig's Listers, they took the old water heaters away. I doubt they would have done so if they didn't work for a HVAC or plumbing outfit already and had access to a dumpster.
 
Agree with Dadoes/ Glenn.

If you must replace, please consider a newer Friedrich that fits into a "standard" Fedders (the defacto standard) wall-sleeve. Any problems with unit you can just slide out and replace. And I'd keep get the blocking cover for such a sleeve sleeve in case pne has no untit (in the FAR FAR future) for a day or two during repairs.

I believe the efficiency found in back-breathers rivals that which is found on units such as your that project further towards the outdoors and suck air in from the sides to cool the compressor and condenser(outdoor) coil (outside).

Of course if you must spend $, I'm all for the Mitsuish Mr. Slims ype split ductless systems that are nearly silent indoors. [Friedrich makes the split-systems as well.] One outdoor unit can handle up to 4 indoor units. I have seen this and similar type units wall-mounted by way of steel brackets, thereby emulating your current install.

Much luck.

http://www.friedrich.com/ductless/
 
Not that you asked but............

Units that discharge cooled air back into the room via a large grille on the right side are Asian (Japanese?) made (inspired?) and tend to be very quiet.

GE IIRC slaps their logo on these foreign invaders.

Don't fear the interior styrofoam air-channels and passageway. They won't rust/rattle and happen to absorb sound and they wont give off the black specks of disinegrating insulation that fly out of old A/C's.

P.S.
A GE sleeve (that holds a GE A/C)fits inside a Fedders /Friedrich "standard" sleeve with no addtional modifications.
Other units, though, won't fit a GE sleeve which is a tad smaller.

Too much said.

Bonne chance!

http://products.geappliances.com/Ap...EQUEST=SUBCATEGORY&SITEID=GEA&CATEGORY=CA0006
 
Rp2813

Thats exactly what we do call a professional company for the Have to have it fixed now, list. But you can always mention the wish list items, many times $50.00 can solve a lot of problems, doesnt take them long either, when its HVAC, plumbing or electrical, they can knock out in 1 hr, what would kill half my weekend.
 
Does GE still make any of the spike/spine fin coil air conditioners, or did they sell that design to Trane when they broke off from them?
 
Thanks For The Suggestions/Comments Gang

Please keep them coming.

Should clear up one little confusion; our wall sleeve is the standard "Fedders A" type which fits both that and Friedrich wall units amoung others. However about 1995 or so Friedrich changed the design of their wall units so that the outside grille has about 2/3 of the louvers facing one way, the remaining 1/3 the other. Apparently Friedrich and now IIRC Fedders newer wall units take in air from one direction while exhausting heated air from another. If the grille is not changed and one uses the standard horizontal type grilles, unit performance will suffer eventually. According to Friedrich techs this is because the unit will be taking in the same hot air it discharged, causing the commpressor to work harder.

Now you see why I am loathe to get rid of my older unit, which uses a different sort of system to remove and take in air. Friedrich techs told me that the desgin changes were in response to the EPA/government energy requirments for ACs.

As mentioned however, modern "back breathers" (thank you for that Toggle) aren't that much more efficient than previous models. Certianly my unit from the 1990's is not that far if any behind what is offered today. Also my unit uses good old fashioned Freon (well whatever R12 is), so when it blows cold air, it is pretty damn cold.

Another thing I do like about dial/mechanical controlled ACs is that power problems do not seem to affect some as much as the newer electronic models. When I called Friedrich today to get information, had to wait on hold forever. Asked the tech why the long hold times/high call volume, and it seemed lots of calls were coming from my area. Guess why? Parts of NYC/Westchester had blackout yesterday (parts are still without power, but that is also due to bad thunderstorms), and people were calling because their electronic ACs needed to be reset, and they didn't have a clue. My old baby, simply will power on once the juice is turned back on. No muss no fuss.

Will wait and see what the repair service gives me as firm price tomorrow for the compressor, and may try to call their bluff if the price is way out of line. Know people have mouths to feed, but charging $250 above cost for a compressor is just galling, IMHO. But then again they may have us by the short and curlies if no other AC service will install a compressor supplied by a customer. Called a few companies late today and they were all like "where did you get a compressor from?" "don't tell me Friedrich sent it to you as they do not do that, the compressor is the heart of the machine....". So you can see what I am up against.

L.
 
HMMM....
IIRC the front grilles of GE are detachable and change-able. Thought the "Fedders A" was as well..

~Does GE still make any of the spike/spine fin coil air conditioners, or did they sell that design to Trane when they broke off from them?

If nothing else this site teaches the metric system AND how to dig/research on the WWW. *LOL*

I thought Trane was a division of, or spin-off of American-Standard.


http://www.fedders.com/catalog/appliances/roomac/fed_ab.htm
 
Yes, know the rear grille is sold on it's own, but the building won't allow anyone to make changes to the outside of building, that includes changing AC grilles. You can install an AC into the sleeve, but that is about it.

Thanks for doing the leg work though.

L.
 
Need to be reset?

I have two cheep chinee-built ACs with the electronic type control. Our power goes on and off like fireflies (Thank You Peg Bracken) and I have never had to "reset" my units, nor the electronically controlled unit we have down at work. What line of crap are they trying to feed you anyway?

I think you should have your old cold fixed. Nothing cools like dichlorodiflouromethane (CFC-12). Find an old guy to do it.
 
One Other Consideration!

I don't know a whole lot about Friedrich, so this is generic advice, okay?

Most air-conditioners today have no provision for exhausting air from the room; they just cool what's in the room. That's fine for SEER ratings, but it's not so great if you have smoke or odours you'd like to get rid of quickly. You also can't draw in outside air on cooler days, thus getting cool air without running the compressor.

If you can find a unit that has the exhaust provision, you'll be way better off, trust me. Manufacturers' literature and advertising makes no mention of the deleted exhaust provision, so you have to look at the actual model you wish to buy. Look for an actual control; don't rely on ad-speak like "four-way air control". I've seen that in A/C advertising, and you know what it means? It means the louvers can be tilted up, down, left, or right, that's what it means!

Oh, the mendacity.... Just know what you're getting if you buy a new unit, is all I'm saying.
 
In my observation of window units over the years, none of the exhaust or fresh-air provisions had a significant effect. Only a very small portion of the airflow is typically directed out the exhaust port, and very little intake occurs from a fresh-air port. I've never used any air-exchange feature on any of the units I've used or owned, and all of them have had at least an exhaust provision. I wouldn't make the presence or absence of it a primary (or even a secondary) selection criteria, myself.
 
my two cents

The HVAC guys who set up my folk's heat pump this year told me they try very hard to stay away from the "real thing" (dichlorodiflouromethane (CFC-12) as partscounterman puts it.

The repairs are simple but they have to keep records and the Feds make a big scene and threaten enormous fines if anything is out of line.

So they will discourage a customer from repairing one, even if they might lose a sale because of it.

That said, there are folks out there who specialize in conversions and repairs; they like real machines. So why not do some looking around outside of the usual channels. An older guy or gal who is "retired" but certified is not going to waste that expensive equipment and training, not in NYC.

Or someone like us who appreciates the real thing.

As for the grills, if yours is failing, I bet everyone else's is too...or they already did replace theirs and nobody has noticed or said a thing...cause they did their own already.

By the by, I put in several window air conditioners for friends over the last two summers (have to do something with my hands when I'm in the States). The instruction manuals frequently spoke of "reset" conditions, so I don't doubt that there might be problems after a brown-out or power failure. I am not talking about the electronics in the air-conditioners; I mean those little gfi plugs they come with...they are really sensitive and trip easily under such conditions.

Can you imagine the size of a non-interruptible power supply for one of these? Just a morning thought...
 
Just curious if your Friedrich has the Rotory compressor,this was a common problem with these,most would last about 10 years max, in the mid 90's some of the larger units went back to the regular compressor, I've always liked Friedrichs, I had one from '59 that I got in '88 that lasted till '99 it was still working but lost it's refrigerant,I guess the condensor coil finally corroded and the rest was pretty rusty at that point, I recently got a 90's model 18,000 BTU Friedrich at an estate sale for 50.00,I have central air but just couldn't pass it up,It has the regular compressor,they said it worked and it looks great,haven't tested it yet but if it works I may use it instead of the central,we don't use all the rooms we're cooling with central,I prefer window units and you really can't beat a Friedrich,most of these new ones are made in china or hong kong or who knows where. If your has a rotory, I'm sure they could replace it with a better compressor and you might get at least 10 or more years out of it. Mark
 
DADoES:

Hmm. I always found the exhaust provision to make a huge difference here in Georgia. Maybe Texas's climate makes it less useful. One of the big benefits I found from having the exhaust was that you could leave the units running on "FAN" with the exhaust open during cooler weather, and get a cooling effect without having to run the compressor. Also, doing the same thing while you're at work keeps down the musties without having to leave windows open, which is a damn-fool thing to do here in the Atlanta area; you might as well leave all your stuff on the front lawn with a sign saying "Here It Is, Burglars!"

Again, Texas may be different, but I loved having the exhaust provision, and I detest the little Fedders bedroom units (made by LG) I have now that do not have it. They were cheap in every sense of the word.
 
The Economizer, was it called?

IDA KNOW KIDS.
The exhaust mesh opening IIRC [even in a 23k BTU/h A/C] is no larger than 3 x 3 inches.

Personally I leave the 18" wide bathroom window open about 1 to 2 inches from the top (it locks in that position) weven with the A/C on when it is cool or dry enough outside to make it reasonable to do so.

Of course when REALLY cool and/or dry, I stick a box fan in the top story open window (pushing air out) and open the basement windows, without A/C. This method lets the heat out and admits cooler air from the bottom.

Whole house stays minty fresh.

Decades ago during the 70's energy crisis there was an automatic system with a damper damper that would do this on the return side of a central HVAC system. It would allow air in when certain wet-bulb and dry bulb-condtions were met. Air outside had to be sufficiently cool and / or dry to allow this system to operate to pull air in and distribute it via the central cooling ducts.

The compressor did not run unless the two-stage thermostat sensed a net rise in room temp. Then both would the compressor would work and the damper would open, working together to lower cooling costs.

Of course can't find it on the web...

:-)

I have read that a 3" (75mm) dampered, controllable-flow duct added to the return side of an A/C system that sucks air in from outside is a nicety as well.
 
Here's The Skinny

Peeped into local appliance store just to check out the latest AC offerings, and met up with a salesperson I've dealth with before. Guy gives good information, and will do so even if you buy somewhere else, which in my book always gets a vote.

Explained my sad tale of woe and misery, and he advised chucking the unit and buy new or even a "newer" used unit from a estate sale or eBay. It was then explained to me that just removing the compressor and swapping it out with a new one is just half the battle, the new compressor must be charged and so forth. For a 17 year old AC, he did'nt feel the $600 or so it would cost was worth it since one could have a new Friedrich for the same or less, and it probably would use a tad less energy. Though most of the savings on today's units come from cycling the fan with the compressor.

Someone else told me that buying the compressor on my own isn't going to do me much good as a qualifed and licensed person must install not only do the swap out, but drain the coolant from the old compressor and charge the new one. It may be possible to find someone who will do the work, but was advised that unless they are licensed and offer a good gaurantee, I might find myself with worse problems down the road. It was also explained to me many reputable repair places just do not like people wandering in with their own stuff, regardless of where it came from.

So there we are; still haven't heard back from the repair place about how much they are going to charge for the part.
A quick peek on Craigslist shows several Wallmaster units going quite cheap. You'd be surprised how many people buy such units and find either they are not what they need (there is a very misunderstood difference between "sleeve" and "through the wall" units. Or, due to the transit nature of city living, buy an AC, and not one or two years later are moving house and have no need for the thing.

So that's me for you.

L.
 
I think it sounds like too much money to sink into it unless the machine holds some great sentimental type value to you.
I'd look for a second hand replacement myself, sometimes they're a dime a dozen but go fast when the thermometer rises like it has. Our local Habitat for Humanity ReStore had half a dozen window units back in March of varying sizes, most in looking good shape, all certified working for $30, none were sleeve units though, those are harder to find and cost a lot more around here just like the sliding window vertical units do. You can hardly find vertical units much anymore I noticed. I don't think HD even had any on their website. I'm looking for a good portable unit myself for our upstairs but they cost twice if not more the cost of a window unit as well.
 
Don't Count The Old Girl Out Just Yet

Spoke to another repair person this morning (my first choice, but never got back to me in time), and he also stated replacing a condenser on such an old unit was folly. His rationale was if you buy a new AC, the condenser has at least a five year warranty, while most repairmen only offer three months if that.

Anywho, asked what else could cause the condenser to show sings of burning out, and repairman said if the condenser coils were not cleaned regularly. Explained that the condeners coils were just cleaned about one month ago, but he said "front and back"? Had never thought of the back of the condenser, so now had me a Saturday morning project.

Took the damn AC out of the wall again, and took off the metal shroud over the condenser, and what did one see? A coating of what one thought was foam with a few dead insects. On closer inspection it wasn't foam, but years pet hair, muck and god only knows what else. Sooo got to scrubbing.

Several hours later the coils were as clean as they were going to get without a professional steam/hosing down job. Also noticed that the fan motor had directions on it's plate regarding oiling. Now I have never in all the several years of owning this unit ever oiled anything. Opened up the ports on each end and added several drops of 3in1 oil. Put everything back together and let the unit dry out for a bit.

Results?

Well the old girl is running, and from what one can tell the condenser is not cycling nearly as much as before. That is it stays on longer than 10 minutes. Incoming register air temp is about 81F, outgoing from the top of the unit is about 59F or so. Will leave the unit on while I take a much deserved nap and see what things are like later. It is only in the low 80's here today, not the best test of an AC, but if the house gets stuffy and hot, will simply give up on this unit and chuck it to the scavengers.

OTHO, if this cleaning did do the trick, am going to be on the phone with the repair service that the condenser was shot without even looking at possible reasons why.

Thanks for listening guys!

L.
 
That Could Well Be It...

Hi:

That hadn't occurred to me, Launderess, given your penchant for Joan Crawford-level housekeeping ("Cleanliness is next to Hollywood Boulevard!" Thank you, Charles Pierce).

But I had a similar experience with the reefer in the house I'm in for the moment, which is a rental. The unit was struggling and running all the time, ice cream wouldn't stay truly frozen, the icemaker was verrrrrrrry slooooooooow, and the ice cubes in the icemaker bin were stuck together. I pulled the old girl (a GE from the early '80s) out and gave her the cleaning of her life, getting her condenser coils clean with a coil brush. I pulled out what must have been five pounds of the most disgusting crap from her underside.

Now, she runs fine, temperatures are what they should be, and the icemaker pumps ice like crazy. That was all it was- dirty coils.
 
Launderess 1 - AC Tech 0

Well after several hours of running the AC has a healthy amount of water in the pan under the front coils, meaning it was cooling like it should. Climate is cool and dry rather than hot and stagnat. Evaporator coils facing the outside are "hot" meaning a good rate of heat exchange is going on, so will conclude for now things are working as they should. Won't really know until the first really hot day as temps today only reached low 80's. Still even under such night temperatures as 78F, the AC wasn't doing what it should, so think I've turned the corner.

Should all this turn out to be true, now you understand my reluctance to call a repair person in the first place, as most seem only to wish to schtup any unsuspecting consumer. Instead of at least looking to see if all the coils were clean, or another reason to cause the condener to work hard/over heat, the man simply pronouced my condenser on death row, took my money and left me to it. Am Ssssssssssssoooooo glad didn't fork out for a new AC nor condenser right away. However am here to tell you someone is going to get a rather unpleasant phone call Monday morning.

Will keep an eye on the unit and see how things go on the next really hot/humid day we have. If the old girl makes it though this summer, will send her out for a deep steam cleaning/tune up in the Fall.

Thanks for helping guys, this group is the greatest.
 

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