Maybe it is just a painful and constant reminder that if they has stuck to the orignal plan in the first place this little "gift from G-d" would not have happened.
Oral Roberts University Scandal
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washertalk
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LOL.
Steve, your adorable!
LOL
Steve, your adorable!
LOL
As I've said many times before, I'm not a religious person, but I respect and admire people who are driven by their religious convictions. Faith, expressed through religion, can be a beautiful and beneficial thing for all humanity.
I don't consider Oral Roberts, Ted Haggard, Pat Robertson, etc to be religious people. They are merely hucksters, exploiting people's fear of the unknown.
It's easy, but wrong, to lump all faithful into that group. I think we sometimes do it because of the media, who tend to haul out a Robertson or Falwell or Coulter to represent the "Christian" perspective on things. We should be smarter than that, and recognize it for what it is (lazy reporters) but too often we don't.
I don't consider Oral Roberts, Ted Haggard, Pat Robertson, etc to be religious people. They are merely hucksters, exploiting people's fear of the unknown.
It's easy, but wrong, to lump all faithful into that group. I think we sometimes do it because of the media, who tend to haul out a Robertson or Falwell or Coulter to represent the "Christian" perspective on things. We should be smarter than that, and recognize it for what it is (lazy reporters) but too often we don't.
Hi Kevin (panthera):
No offense taken here. To be honest, I think I'm becoming more of an Independent, but I still vote Republican for the most part.
Honestly, I tend to vote Republican for two reasons. The first one is because I believe that Republicans typically want less government control, where as the Democrats seem to want more goverment control. This leads to the second reason, which comes down to taxes.
As a small business owner, I feel like I pay less in taxes now under Republican control than I would with under the other party.
Living so close to the Texas/New Mexico border, I currently work in both states, but I live in Texas and my business is based in Texas. Though they are so close together physically, it's AMAZING how different these states are in all other aspects. Texas (which is primarily Republican, and seems to exert less control when it comes to business) is a great place to do business. We don't have a state income tax, and taxes on businesses are much less here than they are in many other places (with the exception of property taxes). Unemployement is much lower here than in New Mexico, as it seems the state laws encourage people to go to work and they are not as supportive of those who choose not to work.
New Mexico on the other hand (which is very Democratic and exerts a large amount of government control), is a very difficult place to do business due to such this strong government control. New Mexico has a very high gross-receipts tax, which primarily goes to support the states' heavy emphasis on social programs. New Mexico's welfare system is very liberal, which seems to contribute to high unemployment rates in certain areas.
I am a healthcare consultant, and it is very difficult to find people quality workers where who are actually willing to work. Our biggest competitor in finding willing workers is the States' own welfare system. With the various social programs offered in New Mexico, one can make a better living staying at home watching Oprah all day than they can working 40 hours a week at a steady job with benefits.
New Mexico also works very hard to keep "outsiders" from coming into their state to do business, thus eliminating competition in the state. For example, for a computer IT person to go in and wire a building for internet for any government facility (including county hospitals, etc), you must have a New Mexico contractors license. In order to get a NM contractors license, you must pay very high fees and jump through so many hoops and red tape that many people find it easier to avoid doing business there altogether.
Despite the heavy taxation in New Mexico, the education system is very poor, as are many of the roads. I believe this is just another side effect of excessive government control.
Here in Texas, however, in my area of business we seem to have a much better educated work force, and our welfare system (while far from perfect) seems to be structured to get people out of the system and back to work. I, as an employer, am also able to offer better benefits to my employees (like quality health insurance) because my taxes are so much lower that it leaves more money to invest back into my company and my employees.
Being a small business owner, I am certainly far from being rich, and I tend to work far more hours than one person should. But, I am able to make a decent living and provide a good quality of life for myself and my 9 employees under our current system of government. The way I see it, if I am going to work so much, I feel like I should be able to have at least a little bit of profitability and not have to spend the majority of my income supporting a large government. Especially when that government (whether under Republican or Democratic control) has never had a very good track record in managing money appropriately.
While I realize that our Federal goverment has A TON of problems today, I always fear what would happen if our government continued to grow and more and more people began to rely on the government more than themselves for their daily needs.
Unfortunately, I'm not as well versed in politics as many here are, so I'm sure there are probably some errors in my reasoning, so this is just one man's opinion here. LOL.
Bryan
No offense taken here. To be honest, I think I'm becoming more of an Independent, but I still vote Republican for the most part.
Honestly, I tend to vote Republican for two reasons. The first one is because I believe that Republicans typically want less government control, where as the Democrats seem to want more goverment control. This leads to the second reason, which comes down to taxes.
As a small business owner, I feel like I pay less in taxes now under Republican control than I would with under the other party.
Living so close to the Texas/New Mexico border, I currently work in both states, but I live in Texas and my business is based in Texas. Though they are so close together physically, it's AMAZING how different these states are in all other aspects. Texas (which is primarily Republican, and seems to exert less control when it comes to business) is a great place to do business. We don't have a state income tax, and taxes on businesses are much less here than they are in many other places (with the exception of property taxes). Unemployement is much lower here than in New Mexico, as it seems the state laws encourage people to go to work and they are not as supportive of those who choose not to work.
New Mexico on the other hand (which is very Democratic and exerts a large amount of government control), is a very difficult place to do business due to such this strong government control. New Mexico has a very high gross-receipts tax, which primarily goes to support the states' heavy emphasis on social programs. New Mexico's welfare system is very liberal, which seems to contribute to high unemployment rates in certain areas.
I am a healthcare consultant, and it is very difficult to find people quality workers where who are actually willing to work. Our biggest competitor in finding willing workers is the States' own welfare system. With the various social programs offered in New Mexico, one can make a better living staying at home watching Oprah all day than they can working 40 hours a week at a steady job with benefits.
New Mexico also works very hard to keep "outsiders" from coming into their state to do business, thus eliminating competition in the state. For example, for a computer IT person to go in and wire a building for internet for any government facility (including county hospitals, etc), you must have a New Mexico contractors license. In order to get a NM contractors license, you must pay very high fees and jump through so many hoops and red tape that many people find it easier to avoid doing business there altogether.
Despite the heavy taxation in New Mexico, the education system is very poor, as are many of the roads. I believe this is just another side effect of excessive government control.
Here in Texas, however, in my area of business we seem to have a much better educated work force, and our welfare system (while far from perfect) seems to be structured to get people out of the system and back to work. I, as an employer, am also able to offer better benefits to my employees (like quality health insurance) because my taxes are so much lower that it leaves more money to invest back into my company and my employees.
Being a small business owner, I am certainly far from being rich, and I tend to work far more hours than one person should. But, I am able to make a decent living and provide a good quality of life for myself and my 9 employees under our current system of government. The way I see it, if I am going to work so much, I feel like I should be able to have at least a little bit of profitability and not have to spend the majority of my income supporting a large government. Especially when that government (whether under Republican or Democratic control) has never had a very good track record in managing money appropriately.
While I realize that our Federal goverment has A TON of problems today, I always fear what would happen if our government continued to grow and more and more people began to rely on the government more than themselves for their daily needs.
Unfortunately, I'm not as well versed in politics as many here are, so I'm sure there are probably some errors in my reasoning, so this is just one man's opinion here. LOL.
Bryan
I really shouldn't type this late . . .
I guess I should proof-read before hitting that send button. Guess I should go to bed now.
Toggle - I love the shirt!
Bryan
I guess I should proof-read before hitting that send button. Guess I should go to bed now.
Toggle - I love the shirt!
Bryan
~sudsshane
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- Joined
- Jan 14, 2007
- Messages
- 1,250
Hi Bryan~
I respect your opinion I think you have put forth some valid points. so, I have 2 simple questions....
1- what will you do if Rudy Giuliani is nominated by the GOP? Would you vote for him?..As a former New Yorker, I can tell you first hand his fiscal policies raised taxes in NYC regardless of what he says.
2-Secondly, at 30 years old, you were quite young when Bill Clinton was President. the 90's were a time of great prosperity in our country and small businesses thrived as well as the stock market.
My partner is an attorney and he employs 36 people in his law firm. He also offers free health care to his employees after 30 days. In his income bracket,he would supposedly benefit greatly from a Republican in the White House. From what he tells me,he doesn't see a difference in his taxes.
Would like to hear your thoughts..
Take care
I respect your opinion I think you have put forth some valid points. so, I have 2 simple questions....
1- what will you do if Rudy Giuliani is nominated by the GOP? Would you vote for him?..As a former New Yorker, I can tell you first hand his fiscal policies raised taxes in NYC regardless of what he says.
2-Secondly, at 30 years old, you were quite young when Bill Clinton was President. the 90's were a time of great prosperity in our country and small businesses thrived as well as the stock market.
My partner is an attorney and he employs 36 people in his law firm. He also offers free health care to his employees after 30 days. In his income bracket,he would supposedly benefit greatly from a Republican in the White House. From what he tells me,he doesn't see a difference in his taxes.
Would like to hear your thoughts..
Take care
Ah that explains it..........
Thanks Bryan.
It is SO GOOD to see you posting again!
Learned a great deal from your thoughts, as expressed above.
Thanks Bryan.
It is SO GOOD to see you posting again!
Learned a great deal from your thoughts, as expressed above.
Taxes? Hunnny puh-lease!
Taxes will have to be raised to pay for the failed and ludicrous policies of this administration. Iraq is costing us $177 million per day, which comes to $7.4 million per hour or $122,820 per minute. Someone has to pay for that, not to mention the reparations for the holocaust we have wrought upon the Iraqi people and the millions of refugees we have created in the process of "liberating Iraq from Saddam."
Bryan, your comments are a welcome perspective and I believe the only thing a group of people from AW.org would think or ask of you if you came to a gathering (and I hope you will someday - it's a blast) would be "Did you bring laundry?" or, "did you bring any detergents to play with?" and politics and religion and the many other trappings of the outside world would be left at the door.
Taxes will have to be raised to pay for the failed and ludicrous policies of this administration. Iraq is costing us $177 million per day, which comes to $7.4 million per hour or $122,820 per minute. Someone has to pay for that, not to mention the reparations for the holocaust we have wrought upon the Iraqi people and the millions of refugees we have created in the process of "liberating Iraq from Saddam."
Bryan, your comments are a welcome perspective and I believe the only thing a group of people from AW.org would think or ask of you if you came to a gathering (and I hope you will someday - it's a blast) would be "Did you bring laundry?" or, "did you bring any detergents to play with?" and politics and religion and the many other trappings of the outside world would be left at the door.
So, how do you folk regard the Pope or those Orthodox Rabbis? What is the difference between them and those to whom you refer as christianist huxters? Why is Catholic, Islamic or Jewish flim flam and intolerance more acceptable? There is no place for gays or abortion in the Catholic Church. You can't be a homo and a devout Orthodox Jew. Try being out and proud in a Muslim country. Just because the Pope moderates his speeches, he still expresses nothing but distaste for anything that is considered 'sinful' in his little tome of foibles. Though, he may not say it out loud anymore, we all know what he is really saying ;o). (That's a beauty spot btw)
Why do people need religion to be decent, morally astute, inspired, spiritual and caring? I and countless others manage to be all that without any kind of religious indoctrination or faith-based belief system. I must admit, I did dabble in Catholicism a little when I was a pre-teen. I had a huge crush on my parish priest, too. However, by age nine the magic of Jesus had worn off and I pretty much decided that religion wasn't for me. At one stage during my teens, I almost joined the Mormon brotherhood. Admittedly, it was a handsome young man in a blue suit that motivated me to consider that step, rather than my need for spirituality. A lot of those young Mormon missionaries are easy on the eye - surely that must be intentional. What kind of breeding program do they run over there in Utah? Luckily, I realized just in time that they were going to suck out my brain and condemn me to a life-time of servitude - but I digress.
I realize that such questions are always confrontational to some. I am not seeking to inflame or upset anyone, but I am naturally curious and, although not motivated by religious conviction, I ask you to indulge me and plead for your forgiveness ;o).
Why do people need religion to be decent, morally astute, inspired, spiritual and caring? I and countless others manage to be all that without any kind of religious indoctrination or faith-based belief system. I must admit, I did dabble in Catholicism a little when I was a pre-teen. I had a huge crush on my parish priest, too. However, by age nine the magic of Jesus had worn off and I pretty much decided that religion wasn't for me. At one stage during my teens, I almost joined the Mormon brotherhood. Admittedly, it was a handsome young man in a blue suit that motivated me to consider that step, rather than my need for spirituality. A lot of those young Mormon missionaries are easy on the eye - surely that must be intentional. What kind of breeding program do they run over there in Utah? Luckily, I realized just in time that they were going to suck out my brain and condemn me to a life-time of servitude - but I digress.
I realize that such questions are always confrontational to some. I am not seeking to inflame or upset anyone, but I am naturally curious and, although not motivated by religious conviction, I ask you to indulge me and plead for your forgiveness ;o).
oxydolfan1
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2006
- Messages
- 1,764
Rapunzel, this is interesting to me.
Do you really not see a difference between the Pope and an Oral Roberts, Pat Robertson, or even a Rav Ovadia Yosef?
Westtexman, I am that creature that is not supposed to exist, a religious leftist gay man.
A lot of these negative vibes I believe we are all feeling are just a reflection of tensions within the country. We are completely polarized, but, at the same time, you might notice that, when you look behind the rhetoric and the posturing, Americans of all political stripes and persuasions are deeply disappointed in the presidential candidates, the situation in Congress, the corruption, the carnage, etc. (God knows, I certainly am...)
I don't post very much anymore but I just wanted to apologize if I had ever made any overbearing political statements in the past that might have contributed to any discomfort that I had. When I first joined up here, I was probably a bit overzealous with making sure that everyone else was entitled to MY opinion, so I'm sorry for that. At the time, aw.org was new to me, and one of the few forums I felt safe expressing my views at the time.
Back to Rapunzel....
The only way I can explain my religious trip is that it's not something I was brainwashed with from childhood. Neither is it a newfound thing. It was a CHOICE, a choice to believe in that light which was revealed to me in my spirit, and not learned.
Even with all the negative aspects, fraudulence, silliness, and exploitation that I do not deny exists within the institutional framework of organized religion, I need it as my sustenance as much as I need bread, and that makes it worth it for me to iron out all the contradictions and conflicts as they come up.
Do you really not see a difference between the Pope and an Oral Roberts, Pat Robertson, or even a Rav Ovadia Yosef?
Westtexman, I am that creature that is not supposed to exist, a religious leftist gay man.
A lot of these negative vibes I believe we are all feeling are just a reflection of tensions within the country. We are completely polarized, but, at the same time, you might notice that, when you look behind the rhetoric and the posturing, Americans of all political stripes and persuasions are deeply disappointed in the presidential candidates, the situation in Congress, the corruption, the carnage, etc. (God knows, I certainly am...)
I don't post very much anymore but I just wanted to apologize if I had ever made any overbearing political statements in the past that might have contributed to any discomfort that I had. When I first joined up here, I was probably a bit overzealous with making sure that everyone else was entitled to MY opinion, so I'm sorry for that. At the time, aw.org was new to me, and one of the few forums I felt safe expressing my views at the time.
Back to Rapunzel....
The only way I can explain my religious trip is that it's not something I was brainwashed with from childhood. Neither is it a newfound thing. It was a CHOICE, a choice to believe in that light which was revealed to me in my spirit, and not learned.
Even with all the negative aspects, fraudulence, silliness, and exploitation that I do not deny exists within the institutional framework of organized religion, I need it as my sustenance as much as I need bread, and that makes it worth it for me to iron out all the contradictions and conflicts as they come up.
davy1063
Well-known member
screw it all....
Hey, I love you all.
Yours in Greek Orthodox Christianity,
Dave
Hey, I love you all.
Yours in Greek Orthodox Christianity,
Dave
Rapunzel
Since I am not multitudinous, I shan't speak for the others here, just for me.
I was raised in the Christian faith; my parents are very left of center people who have spent their lives contributing to the community.
My brother and the rest of my American family are all fundamentalist Christians of the very sort I call 'christianist' so as not to confuse them with people who are religious, Christian and yet good.
My primary problem is with fundamentalism of any kind. Whether it be religiously motivated or simply this *I know best* attitude of the Republican party, it bothers me.
A lot.
Personally, I find the current Pope distasteful. It doesn't surprise me a bit that he was the head of the inquisition...and, quite frankly, the last one wasn't my cup of tea, either.
I am not so arrogant as to title myself an atheist, logically, it is not possible to disprove a negative; I am, thus, uncertain. Regardless of whether there is a 'god' or not, another 'life' after this one or not, I firmly believe that I am accountable for my actions, now. The need to believe in something (or NOT to believe in something, if I interpret your writing correctly) is very fundamental and part of the human condition. Without advocating for any single belief or non-belief, your passionate distaste certainly ranks right up there with the emotional state of those people to whom you object.
Not being an American, I have no idea why that country is turning away from its democratic roots and drifting towards a religious state. Germany went through a similar period of fascism, culminating in the torture and death of millions of Jew, homosexuals, faith driven Christians, Romenii and others.
I hope the US manages to avoid this fate.
Eastern Europe today still has large pockets of such hatred.
My goal for the coming years is to find a way to accept and live with christianists such as my brother's family. This summer they went to my parents and told them that I did not deserve my share of the inheritance because, as a homosexual, I was no better than a drug dealing criminal. I mention this because I strongly suspect, living in New Zealand, a country based on tolerance, this is all just an intellectual exercise for you in pointing up how naive Bryan and others here are. If I am wrong, do please forgive me.
Since I am not multitudinous, I shan't speak for the others here, just for me.
I was raised in the Christian faith; my parents are very left of center people who have spent their lives contributing to the community.
My brother and the rest of my American family are all fundamentalist Christians of the very sort I call 'christianist' so as not to confuse them with people who are religious, Christian and yet good.
My primary problem is with fundamentalism of any kind. Whether it be religiously motivated or simply this *I know best* attitude of the Republican party, it bothers me.
A lot.
Personally, I find the current Pope distasteful. It doesn't surprise me a bit that he was the head of the inquisition...and, quite frankly, the last one wasn't my cup of tea, either.
I am not so arrogant as to title myself an atheist, logically, it is not possible to disprove a negative; I am, thus, uncertain. Regardless of whether there is a 'god' or not, another 'life' after this one or not, I firmly believe that I am accountable for my actions, now. The need to believe in something (or NOT to believe in something, if I interpret your writing correctly) is very fundamental and part of the human condition. Without advocating for any single belief or non-belief, your passionate distaste certainly ranks right up there with the emotional state of those people to whom you object.
Not being an American, I have no idea why that country is turning away from its democratic roots and drifting towards a religious state. Germany went through a similar period of fascism, culminating in the torture and death of millions of Jew, homosexuals, faith driven Christians, Romenii and others.
I hope the US manages to avoid this fate.
Eastern Europe today still has large pockets of such hatred.
My goal for the coming years is to find a way to accept and live with christianists such as my brother's family. This summer they went to my parents and told them that I did not deserve my share of the inheritance because, as a homosexual, I was no better than a drug dealing criminal. I mention this because I strongly suspect, living in New Zealand, a country based on tolerance, this is all just an intellectual exercise for you in pointing up how naive Bryan and others here are. If I am wrong, do please forgive me.
The east was always a bit more mystical........
~screw it all....
Hey, I love you all.
Yours in Greek Orthodox [i.e. Eastern]Christianity.
Dave,
I'm on the same page as you buddy. I focus on the personal power of love and forgiveness. I relish in the fact that the founder of our faith (J.C.) was said to be apolitcal, believed in one's personal power and taught of hope and purity.
I have no interest in the organized religions' twisitng and distorting of the basic tenets of the faith that they claim to embody, and their quest for political power. This would appear to be a "SIN" when sin is defined as "missing the mark" or "not the ideal goal".
I'm sorry this next sentence is bound to offend, so I ask for your indulgence in advance.
A religious break-away faction of a break-away faction of a break-away faction (multipled by many score)would logically have strayed from and missed the original un-taitned message. Beware also of religious leaders that crave the spotlight, money and power; it is an oxymoron in and of itself.
The purpose of religion (besides social-control!) is to raise the consciousness and vibration of the faithful via some type of enlightenment and personal growth. (NOTE: Personal spiritual growth by definiton is not easy). I think it is less-than-desirable to alter one's interpretion of religion or create a new one to suit one's tastes, geographical location, prevailing social attitudes,political climate or aspiration, or other extraneous ephemeral factors.
Love, peace, harmony, forgiveness, humbleness, kindness, co-operation and supression of ego can't possibly be seen as wrong by anyone or any decent faith, IMHO.
Ritual, routine and a pblic show ("theatre") of sitting in a tradtional house of worship (although comforting) may NOT be the answer. Perhaps indiviaual actions and reactions is the key.
Incense belongs to G-d. In my brand of voo-doo the congregations is blessed with incence why? Because.....
COLLECTIVELY WE ALL ARE G-D!
~screw it all....
Hey, I love you all.
Yours in Greek Orthodox [i.e. Eastern]Christianity.
Dave,
I'm on the same page as you buddy. I focus on the personal power of love and forgiveness. I relish in the fact that the founder of our faith (J.C.) was said to be apolitcal, believed in one's personal power and taught of hope and purity.
I have no interest in the organized religions' twisitng and distorting of the basic tenets of the faith that they claim to embody, and their quest for political power. This would appear to be a "SIN" when sin is defined as "missing the mark" or "not the ideal goal".
I'm sorry this next sentence is bound to offend, so I ask for your indulgence in advance.
A religious break-away faction of a break-away faction of a break-away faction (multipled by many score)would logically have strayed from and missed the original un-taitned message. Beware also of religious leaders that crave the spotlight, money and power; it is an oxymoron in and of itself.
The purpose of religion (besides social-control!) is to raise the consciousness and vibration of the faithful via some type of enlightenment and personal growth. (NOTE: Personal spiritual growth by definiton is not easy). I think it is less-than-desirable to alter one's interpretion of religion or create a new one to suit one's tastes, geographical location, prevailing social attitudes,political climate or aspiration, or other extraneous ephemeral factors.
Love, peace, harmony, forgiveness, humbleness, kindness, co-operation and supression of ego can't possibly be seen as wrong by anyone or any decent faith, IMHO.
Ritual, routine and a pblic show ("theatre") of sitting in a tradtional house of worship (although comforting) may NOT be the answer. Perhaps indiviaual actions and reactions is the key.
Incense belongs to G-d. In my brand of voo-doo the congregations is blessed with incence why? Because.....
COLLECTIVELY WE ALL ARE G-D!
Aw, Toggles...
"Collectively, we are all g-d".
Here I am claiming no plurality and there you are, being legion.
We need Lawrence back and healthy soon to add his considered opinions.
By the by, I meant to say: You can't prove a negative, such as the non-existence of a god.
Of course, living with cats the last 21 years has taught me that there is such a thing as deity and we are definitely not it.
"Collectively, we are all g-d".
Here I am claiming no plurality and there you are, being legion.
We need Lawrence back and healthy soon to add his considered opinions.
By the by, I meant to say: You can't prove a negative, such as the non-existence of a god.
Of course, living with cats the last 21 years has taught me that there is such a thing as deity and we are definitely not it.
Gosh, I think that if I were responsible for business stardards and construction safety in any state, I would want people who perform such work to have passed the exams necessary to prove that they are competent in their craft. Home remodelers have to have licenses in Maryland. I consider that protection along with having licensed plumbers, electricians, medical & legal professionals and sexual surrogates. A friend in Washington, DC and a friend in my area both ran into trouble when they hired a friend of a friend to do work in their homes. The contractors ran into some situations that they could not handle and left with the money and the work unfinished. Far worse than losing the money was trying to hire a reputable, licensed firm to come in to finish the jobs because they did not know what had been done by the previous persons. To make sure that the work was up to code, they would basically have to start over and that was a huge additional cost as well a great loss of time in completing the jobs.
I read some time ago that Texas had the largest per capita wealth of any state and the worst care for the poor because the rich did not want to pay taxes to help those in need of help. As I have said before, Karma is rough (trying to put this politely). I have learned in my path through life that not one of us has absolutely ANY say in how we are born into this world. We do not choose the color of our skin, the economic situation of our parents, neither their intelligence nor our own, our family's degree of love and understanding, whether or not they are under the sway of people who will teach them to throw their children out of their home when they are found to be different than expected, our basic genetic blueprint including hereditary diseases or predispositions to illness, both physical and mental, conditions like body type or the sizes of the various parts, what part of the world we are born into, our basic health or what type of medical treatment we will receive when we might need it, what opportunities as far as education and career we will have and on and on and, in spite of what extremists preach, not one of us has any choice about our sexuality whether heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual,transexual or transgender. The latter two of these seem to me the absolutely most frightening; to realise that you are given a concept of self that does not match your body. These are just some of the blessings we have to be thankful for every day and realise that none of us is self-made. We therefore have to help the less fortunate if for no other reason than that we would want someone to help us if we were not as blessed as we are.
Finally, getting down to fight in the mud with the really damned of this world who use religion to spread hate, I read some reviews this week about the newest biography of Henry Ford. Being Jewish, most of his antisemitism had been made known to me as a part of growing up. A Jewish friend asked me when I was in my late teens if I knew why Cadillacs are known as "Jew canoes." I had to admit that I did not and was not familiar with the term. The reason is that Henry Ford refused to sell his Lincolns and Continentals to Jews. Honestly, he kept that degree of control over his dealers and customers and was willing to investigate anyone he thought might not be worthy of having one of his fine automobiles. He financed the publication of numerous antisemitic works and for years authored and published such pieces in the newsaper he owned. All of this is a preface to something which sprouted a few years ago as part of the lie that Christians are a persecuted minority in the United States of America. Henry Ford first voiced the idea that Jews were out to destroy Christmas a century ago. Sound familiar today? Remember the fine Christian leaders who pumped this into the media and the soft brains of their followers for the past several Christmas seasons because business owners and store clerks found out that not every one of their customers was celebrating Christmas? I can imagine the horror that would enter the minds of the mostly white leaders of the religious right if they were wished a Happy Quanza by a person completing the transactions as they bought hundreds of dollars of fashions, expensive trips or luxury automobiles with money that had been given to the Lord. They would in all probability glance at their hands to see if they were still white and check their faces in a mirror at the first opportunity. If they really want to find out what it means to be a religious minority, they might find themselves dealing with being Christian in Saudi Arabia in some other life. Or they might just have to explain all of their shitty tactics in the purity of Heaven where their filth will be in stark contrast to their surroundings. Being a true Christian, Jew, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, Zoroastrian (a fascinating ancient religion that highly valued peace and love) or member of any religion that tries to lead people to higher ideals of behavior and living does not mean sowing your wild oats and praying for a crop failure time after time after time. Do these scoundrels in the positions of religious leadership, and not just in the Christian religion, really think that they are fooling the Creator? So think back on the source for the slander that Jews are trying to destroy Christmas for Christians when it is spewed like like raw sewage into the Christmas season which begins in less than a month and consider how that fits in with celebrating the birth of the Prince of Peace. Like our other fine members have said, it's not religions or members of any particular faith we hold up for derision, only the hypocrites of any faith and there is great precident for this. During the morning service on Yom Kippur, the reading from the prophets or Haftorah includes the wonderful words of the 58th chapter of Isaiah. There was a rumor that President Clinton was going to include a quotation from the Bible in his second Inaugural Speech. After the speech, the reporters and commentators wondered if he had actually used a quote. He did and anyone familiar with this chapter of Isaiah recognized it. I would like to share with you a link to a contemporary translation and interpretation of some of this by a very smart lady Rabbi.
I read some time ago that Texas had the largest per capita wealth of any state and the worst care for the poor because the rich did not want to pay taxes to help those in need of help. As I have said before, Karma is rough (trying to put this politely). I have learned in my path through life that not one of us has absolutely ANY say in how we are born into this world. We do not choose the color of our skin, the economic situation of our parents, neither their intelligence nor our own, our family's degree of love and understanding, whether or not they are under the sway of people who will teach them to throw their children out of their home when they are found to be different than expected, our basic genetic blueprint including hereditary diseases or predispositions to illness, both physical and mental, conditions like body type or the sizes of the various parts, what part of the world we are born into, our basic health or what type of medical treatment we will receive when we might need it, what opportunities as far as education and career we will have and on and on and, in spite of what extremists preach, not one of us has any choice about our sexuality whether heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual,transexual or transgender. The latter two of these seem to me the absolutely most frightening; to realise that you are given a concept of self that does not match your body. These are just some of the blessings we have to be thankful for every day and realise that none of us is self-made. We therefore have to help the less fortunate if for no other reason than that we would want someone to help us if we were not as blessed as we are.
Finally, getting down to fight in the mud with the really damned of this world who use religion to spread hate, I read some reviews this week about the newest biography of Henry Ford. Being Jewish, most of his antisemitism had been made known to me as a part of growing up. A Jewish friend asked me when I was in my late teens if I knew why Cadillacs are known as "Jew canoes." I had to admit that I did not and was not familiar with the term. The reason is that Henry Ford refused to sell his Lincolns and Continentals to Jews. Honestly, he kept that degree of control over his dealers and customers and was willing to investigate anyone he thought might not be worthy of having one of his fine automobiles. He financed the publication of numerous antisemitic works and for years authored and published such pieces in the newsaper he owned. All of this is a preface to something which sprouted a few years ago as part of the lie that Christians are a persecuted minority in the United States of America. Henry Ford first voiced the idea that Jews were out to destroy Christmas a century ago. Sound familiar today? Remember the fine Christian leaders who pumped this into the media and the soft brains of their followers for the past several Christmas seasons because business owners and store clerks found out that not every one of their customers was celebrating Christmas? I can imagine the horror that would enter the minds of the mostly white leaders of the religious right if they were wished a Happy Quanza by a person completing the transactions as they bought hundreds of dollars of fashions, expensive trips or luxury automobiles with money that had been given to the Lord. They would in all probability glance at their hands to see if they were still white and check their faces in a mirror at the first opportunity. If they really want to find out what it means to be a religious minority, they might find themselves dealing with being Christian in Saudi Arabia in some other life. Or they might just have to explain all of their shitty tactics in the purity of Heaven where their filth will be in stark contrast to their surroundings. Being a true Christian, Jew, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, Zoroastrian (a fascinating ancient religion that highly valued peace and love) or member of any religion that tries to lead people to higher ideals of behavior and living does not mean sowing your wild oats and praying for a crop failure time after time after time. Do these scoundrels in the positions of religious leadership, and not just in the Christian religion, really think that they are fooling the Creator? So think back on the source for the slander that Jews are trying to destroy Christmas for Christians when it is spewed like like raw sewage into the Christmas season which begins in less than a month and consider how that fits in with celebrating the birth of the Prince of Peace. Like our other fine members have said, it's not religions or members of any particular faith we hold up for derision, only the hypocrites of any faith and there is great precident for this. During the morning service on Yom Kippur, the reading from the prophets or Haftorah includes the wonderful words of the 58th chapter of Isaiah. There was a rumor that President Clinton was going to include a quotation from the Bible in his second Inaugural Speech. After the speech, the reporters and commentators wondered if he had actually used a quote. He did and anyone familiar with this chapter of Isaiah recognized it. I would like to share with you a link to a contemporary translation and interpretation of some of this by a very smart lady Rabbi.
Clinton's Second Inaugural Address
Tom, as usual, you have hit the nail on the head. Maybe with a 20 pound sledge hammer, but, heh - on my tough skull that one is but a love tap.
I remember that Address.
Here's a quick copy. Kinda scary when you take the time to read it...a president who took his oath to uphold the constitution of the United States seriously.
Must have been a democrat or something.
Or something.
William Jefferson Clinton, 2nd Inauguaral Address:
My fellow citizens:
At this last presidential inauguration of the 20th century, let us lift our eyes toward the challenges that await us in the next century. It is our great good fortune that time and chance have put us not only at the edge of a new century, in a new millennium, but on the edge of a bright new prospect in human affairs—a moment that will define our course, and our character, for decades to come. We must keep our old democracy forever young. Guided by the ancient vision of a promised land, let us set our sights upon a land of new promise. 1
The promise of America was born in the 18th century out of the bold conviction that we are all created equal. It was extended and preserved in the 19th century, when our nation spread across the continent, saved the union, and abolished the awful scourge of slavery. 2
Then, in turmoil and triumph, that promise exploded onto the world stage to make this the American Century. 3
And what a century it has been. America became the world’s mightiest industrial power; saved the world from tyranny in two world wars and a long cold war; and time and again, reached out across the globe to millions who, like us, longed for the blessings of liberty. 4
Along the way, Americans produced a great middle class and security in old age; built unrivaled centers of learning and opened public schools to all; split the atom and explored the heavens; invented the computer and the microchip; and deepened the wellspring of justice by making a revolution in civil rights for African Americans and all minorities, and extending the circle of citizenship, opportunity and dignity to women. 5
Now, for the third time, a new century is upon us, and another time to choose. We began the 19th century with a choice, to spread our nation from coast to coast. We began the 20th century with a choice, to harness the Industrial Revolution to our values of free enterprise, conservation, and human decency. Those choices made all the difference. At the dawn of the 21st century a free people must now choose to shape the forces of the Information Age and the global society, to unleash the limitless potential of all our people, and, yes, to form a more perfect union. 6
When last we gathered, our march to this new future seemed less certain than it does today. We vowed then to set a clear course to renew our nation. 7
In these four years, we have been touched by tragedy, exhilarated by challenge, strengthened by achievement. America stands alone as the world’s indispensable nation. Once again, our economy is the strongest on Earth. Once again, we are building stronger families, thriving communities, better educational opportunities, a cleaner environment. Problems that once seemed destined to deepen now bend to our efforts: our streets are safer and record numbers of our fellow citizens have moved from welfare to work. 8
And once again, we have resolved for our time a great debate over the role of government. Today we can declare: Government is not the problem, and government is not the solution. We—the American people—we are the solution. Our founders understood that well and gave us a democracy strong enough to endure for centuries, flexible enough to face our common challenges and advance our common dreams in each new day. 9
As times change, so government must change. We need a new government for a new century—humble enough not to try to solve all our problems for us, but strong enough to give us the tools to solve our problems for ourselves; a government that is smaller, lives within its means, and does more with less. Yet where it can stand up for our values and interests in the world, and where it can give Americans the power to make a real difference in their everyday lives, government should do more, not less. The preeminent mission of our new government is to give all Americans an opportunity—not a guarantee, but a real opportunity—to build better lives. 10
Beyond that, my fellow citizens, the future is up to us. Our founders taught us that the preservation of our liberty and our union depends upon responsible citizenship. And we need a new sense of responsibility for a new century. There is work to do, work that government alone cannot do: teaching children to read; hiring people off welfare rolls; coming out from behind locked doors and shuttered windows to help reclaim our streets from drugs and gangs and crime; taking time out of our own lives to serve others. 11
Each and every one of us, in our own way, must assume personal responsibility—not only for ourselves and our families, but for our neighbors and our nation. Our greatest responsibility is to embrace a new spirit of community for a new century. For any one of us to succeed, we must succeed as one America. 12
The challenge of our past remains the challenge of our future—will we be one nation, one people, with one common destiny, or not? Will we all come together, or come apart? 13
The divide of race has been America’s constant curse. And each new wave of immigrants gives new targets to old prejudices. Prejudice and contempt, cloaked in the pretense of religious or political conviction are no different. These forces have nearly destroyed our nation in the past. They plague us still. They fuel the fanaticism of terror. And they torment the lives of millions in fractured nations all around the world. 14
These obsessions cripple both those who hate and, of course, those who are hated, robbing both of what they might become. We cannot, we will not, succumb to the dark impulses that lurk in the far regions of the soul everywhere. We shall overcome them. And we shall replace them with the generous spirit of a people who feel at home with one another. 15
Our rich texture of racial, religious and political diversity will be a Godsend in the 21st century. Great rewards will come to those who can live together, learn together, work together, forge new ties that bind together. 16
As this new era approaches we can already see its broad outlines. Ten years ago, the Internet was the mystical province of physicists; today, it is a commonplace encyclopedia for millions of schoolchildren. Scientists now are decoding the blueprint of human life. Cures for our most feared illnesses seem close at hand. 17
The world is no longer divided into two hostile camps. Instead, now we are building bonds with nations that once were our adversaries. Growing connections of commerce and culture give us a chance to lift the fortunes and spirits of people the world over. And for the very first time in all of history, more people on this planet live under democracy than dictatorship. 18
My fellow Americans, as we look back at this remarkable century, we may ask, can we hope not just to follow, but even to surpass the achievements of the 20th century in America and to avoid the awful bloodshed that stained its legacy? To that question, every American here and every American in our land today must answer a resounding “Yes.” 19
This is the heart of our task. With a new vision of government, a new sense of responsibility, a new spirit of community, we will sustain America’s journey. The promise we sought in a new land we will find again in a land of new promise. 20
In this new land, education will be every citizen’s most prized possession. Our schools will have the highest standards in the world, igniting the spark of possibility in the eyes of every girl and every boy. And the doors of higher education will be open to all. The knowledge and power of the Information Age will be within reach not just of the few, but of every classroom, every library, every child. Parents and children will have time not only to work, but to read and play together. And the plans they make at their kitchen table will be those of a better home, a better job, the certain chance to go to college. 21
Our streets will echo again with the laughter of our children, because no one will try to shoot them or sell them drugs anymore. Everyone who can work, will work, with today’s permanent under class part of tomorrow’s growing middle class. New miracles of medicine at last will reach not only those who can claim care now, but the children and hardworking families too long denied. 22
We will stand mighty for peace and freedom, and maintain a strong defense against terror and destruction. Our children will sleep free from the threat of nuclear, chemical or biological weapons. Ports and airports, farms and factories will thrive with trade and innovation and ideas. And the world’s greatest democracy will lead a whole world of democracies. 23
Our land of new promise will be a nation that meets its obligations—a nation that balances its budget, but never loses the balance of its values. A nation where our grandparents have secure retirement and health care, and their grandchildren know we have made the reforms necessary to sustain those benefits for their time. A nation that fortifies the world’s most productive economy even as it protects the great natural bounty of our water, air, and majestic land. 24
And in this land of new promise, we will have reformed our politics so that the voice of the people will always speak louder than the din of narrow interests—regaining the participation and deserving the trust of all Americans. 25
Fellow citizens, let us build that America, a nation ever moving forward toward realizing the full potential of all its citizens. Prosperity and power—yes, they are important, and we must maintain them. But let us never forget: The greatest progress we have made, and the greatest progress we have yet to make, is in the human heart. In the end, all the world’s wealth and a thousand armies are no match for the strength and decency of the human spirit. 26
Thirty-four years ago, the man whose life we celebrate today spoke to us down there, at the other end of this Mall, in words that moved the conscience of a nation. Like a prophet of old, he told of his dream that one day America would rise up and treat all its citizens as equals before the law and in the heart. Martin Luther King’s dream was the American Dream. His quest is our quest: the ceaseless striving to live out our true creed. Our history has been built on such dreams and labors. And by our dreams and labors we will redeem the promise of America in the 21st century. 27
To that effort I pledge all my strength and every power of my office. I ask the members of Congress here to join in that pledge. The American people returned to office a President of one party and a Congress of another. Surely, they did not do this to advance the politics of petty bickering and extreme partisanship they plainly deplore. No, they call on us instead to be repairers of the breach, and to move on with America’s mission. 28
America demands and deserves big things from us—and nothing big ever came from being small. Let us remember the timeless wisdom of Cardinal Bernardin, when facing the end of his own life. He said: “It is wrong to waste the precious gift of time, on acrimony and division.” 29
Fellow citizens, we must not waste the precious gift of this time. For all of us are on that same journey of our lives, and our journey, too, will come to an end. But the journey of our America must go on. 30
And so, my fellow Americans, we must be strong, for there is much to dare. The demands of our time are great and they are different. Let us meet them with faith and courage, with patience and a grateful and happy heart. Let us shape the hope of this day into the noblest chapter in our history. Yes, let us build our bridge. A bridge wide enough and strong enough for every American to cross over to a blessed land of new promise. 31
May those generations whose faces we cannot yet see, whose names we may never know, say of us here that we led our beloved land into a new century with the American Dream alive for all her children; with the American promise of a more perfect union a reality for all her people; with America’s bright flame of freedom spreading throughout all the world. 32
From the height of this place and the summit of this century, let us go forth. May God strengthen our hands for the good work ahead—and always, always bless our America.
Tom, as usual, you have hit the nail on the head. Maybe with a 20 pound sledge hammer, but, heh - on my tough skull that one is but a love tap.
I remember that Address.
Here's a quick copy. Kinda scary when you take the time to read it...a president who took his oath to uphold the constitution of the United States seriously.
Must have been a democrat or something.
Or something.
William Jefferson Clinton, 2nd Inauguaral Address:
My fellow citizens:
At this last presidential inauguration of the 20th century, let us lift our eyes toward the challenges that await us in the next century. It is our great good fortune that time and chance have put us not only at the edge of a new century, in a new millennium, but on the edge of a bright new prospect in human affairs—a moment that will define our course, and our character, for decades to come. We must keep our old democracy forever young. Guided by the ancient vision of a promised land, let us set our sights upon a land of new promise. 1
The promise of America was born in the 18th century out of the bold conviction that we are all created equal. It was extended and preserved in the 19th century, when our nation spread across the continent, saved the union, and abolished the awful scourge of slavery. 2
Then, in turmoil and triumph, that promise exploded onto the world stage to make this the American Century. 3
And what a century it has been. America became the world’s mightiest industrial power; saved the world from tyranny in two world wars and a long cold war; and time and again, reached out across the globe to millions who, like us, longed for the blessings of liberty. 4
Along the way, Americans produced a great middle class and security in old age; built unrivaled centers of learning and opened public schools to all; split the atom and explored the heavens; invented the computer and the microchip; and deepened the wellspring of justice by making a revolution in civil rights for African Americans and all minorities, and extending the circle of citizenship, opportunity and dignity to women. 5
Now, for the third time, a new century is upon us, and another time to choose. We began the 19th century with a choice, to spread our nation from coast to coast. We began the 20th century with a choice, to harness the Industrial Revolution to our values of free enterprise, conservation, and human decency. Those choices made all the difference. At the dawn of the 21st century a free people must now choose to shape the forces of the Information Age and the global society, to unleash the limitless potential of all our people, and, yes, to form a more perfect union. 6
When last we gathered, our march to this new future seemed less certain than it does today. We vowed then to set a clear course to renew our nation. 7
In these four years, we have been touched by tragedy, exhilarated by challenge, strengthened by achievement. America stands alone as the world’s indispensable nation. Once again, our economy is the strongest on Earth. Once again, we are building stronger families, thriving communities, better educational opportunities, a cleaner environment. Problems that once seemed destined to deepen now bend to our efforts: our streets are safer and record numbers of our fellow citizens have moved from welfare to work. 8
And once again, we have resolved for our time a great debate over the role of government. Today we can declare: Government is not the problem, and government is not the solution. We—the American people—we are the solution. Our founders understood that well and gave us a democracy strong enough to endure for centuries, flexible enough to face our common challenges and advance our common dreams in each new day. 9
As times change, so government must change. We need a new government for a new century—humble enough not to try to solve all our problems for us, but strong enough to give us the tools to solve our problems for ourselves; a government that is smaller, lives within its means, and does more with less. Yet where it can stand up for our values and interests in the world, and where it can give Americans the power to make a real difference in their everyday lives, government should do more, not less. The preeminent mission of our new government is to give all Americans an opportunity—not a guarantee, but a real opportunity—to build better lives. 10
Beyond that, my fellow citizens, the future is up to us. Our founders taught us that the preservation of our liberty and our union depends upon responsible citizenship. And we need a new sense of responsibility for a new century. There is work to do, work that government alone cannot do: teaching children to read; hiring people off welfare rolls; coming out from behind locked doors and shuttered windows to help reclaim our streets from drugs and gangs and crime; taking time out of our own lives to serve others. 11
Each and every one of us, in our own way, must assume personal responsibility—not only for ourselves and our families, but for our neighbors and our nation. Our greatest responsibility is to embrace a new spirit of community for a new century. For any one of us to succeed, we must succeed as one America. 12
The challenge of our past remains the challenge of our future—will we be one nation, one people, with one common destiny, or not? Will we all come together, or come apart? 13
The divide of race has been America’s constant curse. And each new wave of immigrants gives new targets to old prejudices. Prejudice and contempt, cloaked in the pretense of religious or political conviction are no different. These forces have nearly destroyed our nation in the past. They plague us still. They fuel the fanaticism of terror. And they torment the lives of millions in fractured nations all around the world. 14
These obsessions cripple both those who hate and, of course, those who are hated, robbing both of what they might become. We cannot, we will not, succumb to the dark impulses that lurk in the far regions of the soul everywhere. We shall overcome them. And we shall replace them with the generous spirit of a people who feel at home with one another. 15
Our rich texture of racial, religious and political diversity will be a Godsend in the 21st century. Great rewards will come to those who can live together, learn together, work together, forge new ties that bind together. 16
As this new era approaches we can already see its broad outlines. Ten years ago, the Internet was the mystical province of physicists; today, it is a commonplace encyclopedia for millions of schoolchildren. Scientists now are decoding the blueprint of human life. Cures for our most feared illnesses seem close at hand. 17
The world is no longer divided into two hostile camps. Instead, now we are building bonds with nations that once were our adversaries. Growing connections of commerce and culture give us a chance to lift the fortunes and spirits of people the world over. And for the very first time in all of history, more people on this planet live under democracy than dictatorship. 18
My fellow Americans, as we look back at this remarkable century, we may ask, can we hope not just to follow, but even to surpass the achievements of the 20th century in America and to avoid the awful bloodshed that stained its legacy? To that question, every American here and every American in our land today must answer a resounding “Yes.” 19
This is the heart of our task. With a new vision of government, a new sense of responsibility, a new spirit of community, we will sustain America’s journey. The promise we sought in a new land we will find again in a land of new promise. 20
In this new land, education will be every citizen’s most prized possession. Our schools will have the highest standards in the world, igniting the spark of possibility in the eyes of every girl and every boy. And the doors of higher education will be open to all. The knowledge and power of the Information Age will be within reach not just of the few, but of every classroom, every library, every child. Parents and children will have time not only to work, but to read and play together. And the plans they make at their kitchen table will be those of a better home, a better job, the certain chance to go to college. 21
Our streets will echo again with the laughter of our children, because no one will try to shoot them or sell them drugs anymore. Everyone who can work, will work, with today’s permanent under class part of tomorrow’s growing middle class. New miracles of medicine at last will reach not only those who can claim care now, but the children and hardworking families too long denied. 22
We will stand mighty for peace and freedom, and maintain a strong defense against terror and destruction. Our children will sleep free from the threat of nuclear, chemical or biological weapons. Ports and airports, farms and factories will thrive with trade and innovation and ideas. And the world’s greatest democracy will lead a whole world of democracies. 23
Our land of new promise will be a nation that meets its obligations—a nation that balances its budget, but never loses the balance of its values. A nation where our grandparents have secure retirement and health care, and their grandchildren know we have made the reforms necessary to sustain those benefits for their time. A nation that fortifies the world’s most productive economy even as it protects the great natural bounty of our water, air, and majestic land. 24
And in this land of new promise, we will have reformed our politics so that the voice of the people will always speak louder than the din of narrow interests—regaining the participation and deserving the trust of all Americans. 25
Fellow citizens, let us build that America, a nation ever moving forward toward realizing the full potential of all its citizens. Prosperity and power—yes, they are important, and we must maintain them. But let us never forget: The greatest progress we have made, and the greatest progress we have yet to make, is in the human heart. In the end, all the world’s wealth and a thousand armies are no match for the strength and decency of the human spirit. 26
Thirty-four years ago, the man whose life we celebrate today spoke to us down there, at the other end of this Mall, in words that moved the conscience of a nation. Like a prophet of old, he told of his dream that one day America would rise up and treat all its citizens as equals before the law and in the heart. Martin Luther King’s dream was the American Dream. His quest is our quest: the ceaseless striving to live out our true creed. Our history has been built on such dreams and labors. And by our dreams and labors we will redeem the promise of America in the 21st century. 27
To that effort I pledge all my strength and every power of my office. I ask the members of Congress here to join in that pledge. The American people returned to office a President of one party and a Congress of another. Surely, they did not do this to advance the politics of petty bickering and extreme partisanship they plainly deplore. No, they call on us instead to be repairers of the breach, and to move on with America’s mission. 28
America demands and deserves big things from us—and nothing big ever came from being small. Let us remember the timeless wisdom of Cardinal Bernardin, when facing the end of his own life. He said: “It is wrong to waste the precious gift of time, on acrimony and division.” 29
Fellow citizens, we must not waste the precious gift of this time. For all of us are on that same journey of our lives, and our journey, too, will come to an end. But the journey of our America must go on. 30
And so, my fellow Americans, we must be strong, for there is much to dare. The demands of our time are great and they are different. Let us meet them with faith and courage, with patience and a grateful and happy heart. Let us shape the hope of this day into the noblest chapter in our history. Yes, let us build our bridge. A bridge wide enough and strong enough for every American to cross over to a blessed land of new promise. 31
May those generations whose faces we cannot yet see, whose names we may never know, say of us here that we led our beloved land into a new century with the American Dream alive for all her children; with the American promise of a more perfect union a reality for all her people; with America’s bright flame of freedom spreading throughout all the world. 32
From the height of this place and the summit of this century, let us go forth. May God strengthen our hands for the good work ahead—and always, always bless our America.
Just when you thought that only tele evengelists had the scoop on hypocrisy and scandal, here is a tidbit from Rome.
Enjoy - I am.
Enjoy - I am.
oxydolfan1
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2006
- Messages
- 1,764
Uh, oh.....Guess I'm gonna have to become a Quaker!! LOL...
Seriously....everyone thinks I'm nuts, but this story is just part of my rationale that the Pope will HAVE to extend marriage equality rights into the catechism of the church.
I've tried to figure out how they could do it....maybe some sort of "don't tell" celibacy clause, a reworded ceremony, something.
Think about it. I don't know one Catholic family without an out-and-proud family member. This is driving away older family members who simply don't worry about gays that much anymore, and the North American cardinals are jealous of the growth in places like Latin America, Africa, etc. So many of our Catholic schools are closing because of lack of enrollment, and gay men in my neighborhood are extremely likely not just to shack up, but have kids or adopt as well!
They have to change in order to survive.
They need us in order to thrive.
And I believe I will see this, not just in my lifetime, but in the next decade.
Don't laugh at me! It's important to me...
Seriously....everyone thinks I'm nuts, but this story is just part of my rationale that the Pope will HAVE to extend marriage equality rights into the catechism of the church.
I've tried to figure out how they could do it....maybe some sort of "don't tell" celibacy clause, a reworded ceremony, something.
Think about it. I don't know one Catholic family without an out-and-proud family member. This is driving away older family members who simply don't worry about gays that much anymore, and the North American cardinals are jealous of the growth in places like Latin America, Africa, etc. So many of our Catholic schools are closing because of lack of enrollment, and gay men in my neighborhood are extremely likely not just to shack up, but have kids or adopt as well!
They have to change in order to survive.
They need us in order to thrive.
And I believe I will see this, not just in my lifetime, but in the next decade.
Don't laugh at me! It's important to me...
bigbubbacain
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 6, 2006
- Messages
- 76
Please allow me lighten the mood of this thread, if I may...
Does anyone remember who Robert Tilton is/was? Bless his heart! Brother Tilton really capitalized on the whole "name it & claim it" brand of religion among all those "Christianistas" out there. Definition of name it & claim it: If you decree that God wants you to have a Cadillac and you will be better able to serve him with a Cadillac, then send Brother Tilton $1000 and he'll become your "prayer partner" and help you to get that Cadillac. Yep, that's how he worked it. After he was ran out of Dallas, he became the object of scorn for most of us Texans. One individual took it a little too far, but I still get an occasional chuckle out of this: Enjoy!
Does anyone remember who Robert Tilton is/was? Bless his heart! Brother Tilton really capitalized on the whole "name it & claim it" brand of religion among all those "Christianistas" out there. Definition of name it & claim it: If you decree that God wants you to have a Cadillac and you will be better able to serve him with a Cadillac, then send Brother Tilton $1000 and he'll become your "prayer partner" and help you to get that Cadillac. Yep, that's how he worked it. After he was ran out of Dallas, he became the object of scorn for most of us Texans. One individual took it a little too far, but I still get an occasional chuckle out of this: Enjoy!
oxydolfan1
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2006
- Messages
- 1,764
Was he related to the actress Charlene Tilton, on "Dallas"??
