Oxydol liquid

[kenmoreguy89]

Launderess

Machines lacked internal heaters in the USA, true... but that does not absolutely mean they could not have temperatures to have the oxydol (perborate ingredients) going as you say, I mean starting from 140F and more... loaded from the tap...
I do that with my washers (no heaters) and also I use pure perborate alot while doing laundry with soap flakes, and that do a nice job.
Like it is for me, for many others it was and it is the same thing...

So it does not make sense for me what you say...sorry...

I don't also get your statement about Persil not suggesting using bleach in prewash...what you mean? What you refer to?
About the fact it contained perborate maybe so no suggesting use of chlorine?
Most european detergent does not, never did..like most american ones also does not..

As far as I know no detergent both vintage/old or new from me tried, never suggested or mentioned to have prewash with chlorine... I'm not saying it is no possible, just not commonly..especially as we look for more modern stuff (from the 60s to present)...
All the things I could seldomly read indeed were: "If chlorine bleach is needed add it in the last 5 minutes of wash cycle" this for american products meant for top loader machines and they did contain perborate....but never in a detergent box I've read run a pre wash cycle before wash one, never, just a few times in low end chlorine bleach bottles... but again, not saying it is impossible..
But this makes me think at the fact you say of perborate and chlorine eliminating each other...
If it is no good to have chlorine left in clothes then it is even less good adding chlorine to wash solution..so where's the point i this?
I'm puzzled...

European washers ( at least many ones you'd find in Italy) because of the different washing and cycle of the machine, would do chlorine bleaching automatically and this would take place in the first rinse (if needed), or in case of lack of automatic bleaching cycles manufacturers suggest to run a rinse or prewash before wash, or wait to add it manually after wash cycle ( this is the preferental method suggested)...

But I see that when one use bleach would probably never mind, care and need to benefit of perborate though rhen...

I also found weird what I heard about some machines from elsewhere in europe that would mention that machine gets ruined from bleach???
I find it crazy! Silly!

I would never have a machine that gets ruined just for some bleach, moreover in the eventuality I'd need it to get something white before home dying or simply fix a wash error, rare event but possible.
I feel like I should be allowed to use bleach in washer! Like a normal machine should..
I mean..
Okay it ruins clothes time after time, but a washer??? Is that made of paper maybe?? Ahahahah! It's not acid!

Anyway, as you well know I don't like front loaders and how they do (not) work....so this thing is not going to touch me minimally...[this post was last edited: 9/18/2013-18:47]

 

[danemodsandy]

180 Degrees?

Yikes!

Even in the days when energy rates were low compared to today's (adjusted for inflation), I can't imagine many people electing to pay for such a high hot-water temp.

There is a little-remembered secret about the '50s and the early '60s - economy. Our parents had grown up with both the Depression and wartime rationing, and now that they had it good, they still didn't waste stuff, or money. It was also a single-breadwinner economy, meaning that one parent (usually Dad at that time) brought home the bacon, with all other members of the household dependent on that person financially.

I well remember all the home sewing, home freezing and canning, the seat covers and ring-and-valve jobs and Earl Scheib paint jobs to make old cars last a while longer, the constant reminders to "Close that door!" and "Turn out that light!," the self-administered home permanents, the careful use of coupons and the drive to get the most bang for the laundry buck.

All of it was necessary to stretch that single, intractable paycheck, and all of us did it without even thinking; it was just the way things were. We were not lower-income people, either; my Dad earned excellent pay for that time and place. It's just that we were buying a house and raising three kids. Millions of new suburbanites lived exactly as we did - getting ahead, but not having it all.

Anyone turning a water heater to 180 in my family (immediate or extended) would have found themselves in a comfy institution getting 72 hours of psych evaluation.

 

[retromania]

Yeah!

That's a bit hot. Phew! Yes, Sandy. Our parents were products of the depression and war rationing. My mother didn't do all those things you listed, but she did slip-cover some of our furniture. She sewed a lot and was a perfectionist with her sewing. I wish I had the Halloween costumes she made for me. One was a dog and one was the devil. She kept a spotless house and kitchen.

 

[kenmoreguy89]

My apartment taps (common condo heater) gets out hot water never less of 150°f, it even regularly reaches 170°f - 180°f in high demand times such as lunch hours, morning or dinner times...
I pay for hot water so I want hot water, not warm, hot...but that's just the norm for how I see things...I mix it with cold of course if I need it warm, as it should be..
At the seaside house we indeed have a wall instant water heater that heats water and produce hot water for radiators (like many people do have here) from Vaillant, the max set up gets water at stationary 182 F°....

Also....where I work we have an electric acculumatory water heater, never measured temp there but is as hot as the one coming out my apartment...
Electric water heaters over here are not very commonly found because of cost of electricity...

I think these temperatures are just the norm....as they should be..

If you don't want to have set up a temperature that high you could easily increase it when you have to do laundry..or even better have a small one installed just for laundry use..maybe filling already warm water from your general household one and you could just turn it on at the time of the need to turn water actually hot (you'd need to let flow some other water to empty the cold one and have it filled with warm)..
Anyway...I find the instant ones to be the best choice, they runs at the exact time you need hot water and shuts off at the time you close the tap.. if you have a gas hook up and possibility to install one that's good...then running on gas, the cost is so low than electricity...
[this post was last edited: 9/18/2013-17:52]

 

[danemodsandy]

Andy:

I didn't mean every family did all those money-saving things, but most families I knew back then engaged in one or more of them.

Fred:

How cheap are your utility rates in Valenza? Heating water to 180 here in the States would cost a bleeding fortune.

Or are you actually the Duchess of Alba, so the cost isn't important? ;-)

 

[supersuds]

Exactly right, sandy

Nobody would have dreamed of hiring a lawn service -- you did it yourself, or hired a neighborhood kid if you were away. Paint, wallpaper -- DIY. Simplicity dress patterns, check. Church rummage sale for kids clothes, check. Cousins' old tricycle and swingset, check.

Here's the dual temp gas water heating setup video, at the 11:00 mark. The whole thing is worth watching, it's a hoot! Great appliances, too.

 

[supersuds]

Using old detergent

I know I won't be able to hold off using it forever, Launderess, but am going to take my time and enjoy it. As you once pointed out, there's no use dying with unused detergent!

At the same time, all the old stuff is 40+ years old now, so waiting a few more years shouldn't be a dealbreaker for any of it at this point.

 

[launderess]

@Kenmoreguy90

Someone upthread made comment about the directions on the Oxydol box suggesting for heavily and or badly stained items that could not be shifted with washing, soaking and or boiling with the product that a one hour soak with "bleach" could work. In the United States "Bleach" universally refers to LCB unless "oxygen" or "all fabric" proceeds the word.

Most American homes today do *NOT* give water temps >130F and certainly not 180F from the taps. Back when the package of Oxydol in question was printed it was possible to purchase heaters that gave water at 180F or even 140F but that does not mean water which reached the machine equaled those temps. Distance from the washer along with other factors would influence what temperature "hot" water was when it entered the machine. Then there is unless the washer had good insulation water temp would certainly drop as it encountered both the cooler laundry and the appliance tub/parts themselves. Depending upon cycle length the end temp might be ten or more degrees cooler.

Also the package gives the standard washing directions in terms of water suggestions many housewives on this side of the pond followed; that is "hot", "warm", or "cold" water based upon soils and or other factors. Since American washers then and to a large portion still today do not heat water a separate wash or soak with cool or cold water is required before starting a wash with hot. Filling a washer directly with hot water will set certain stains. This was something known going back to soap and water days.

Persil and prewash:

Unless grossly filthy European washing machines and soiled laundry do not require a prewash. This is because as noted above it is possible to start the wash with cold or cool water and gradually reach hot or boiling. Many machines did include and recommend such a cycle for heavily soiled whites because two washes give better results on such things than one long. Also if the washer was plumbed with both hot and cold the main wash cycle could be started with hot water thus saving a bit of time and costs in heating to very hot or boiling.

Adding LCB Five minutes after....

Aside from Oxydol and later Tide few if any domestic American detergents contained oxygen bleach. This was fine because Americans by and large prefer LCB by a wide margin for stain removal and overall whitening and sanitizing of laundry.

Chlorine bleach however can affect two components of laundry detergents, bluing agents (OBAs), and enzymes. Once one or both began to be included in American detergents makers began to suggest waiting a period of time after the wash had begun to allow the bluing agents and or enzymes to do their work before adding LCB.

Chlorine bleach residue:

Commercial laundries have known for ages that the residue from chlorine bleach is harmful to textiles, and by the way the stuff is very hard to completely remove from fabrics. Various chemicals and multiple rinses are used after a bleaching cycle to remove and or neutralize traces of LCB. American housewives OTOH have largely been left to fend for themselves.

Older laundry manuals one has read do give instructions about the care required to rinse all LCB away from fabrics and the various techniques and domestic chemicals that will neutralize bleach, but you rarely if ever find such information on a packet of Clorox.

In general if you can still smell LCB then it still remains on textiles. Further exposure to heat (drying and or ironing) will activate the bleach and cause fabric damage. This damage can range from yellowing to outright disintegration of textiles. Remember watching someone who had pre-treated a stain with LCB, rinsed, then washed the thing in an automatic washer that had several rinses. She went to iron the shirt and when she came to the area treated with LCB soon as the heat touched area it became one huge hole. That was that for that shirt.

Water heaters:

Many persons have no choice where the heater is installed and few if any are interested in installing a second unit just to provide hot water for a washing machine. As one has stated again and again, Americans are not that bothered by washing at temps below boiling or even very hot because they are wedded to the use of LCB.

Chlorine bleach does all it's whitening and stain removal in five minutes or less. Colder water will clock in near five and hot much less. This is why among other reasons commercial laundries have long had a separate short "bleaching" cycle that comes *after* the main wash. Most housewives either add the stuff at the start of the wash or return during the cycle to do it then. Some top loaders then and now along with most front loaders sold today have bleach dispensers that will add LCB at the proper time. Some do this at a certain mark during main wash, others during the first rinse. [this post was last edited: 9/18/2013-23:10]

 

[launderess]

Machines runied by LCB

No, it is not crazy and many European washer makers from Bosch, AEG, Asko, and even Miele warned against frequent use of LCB and in the case of one (Bosch or Asko cannot remember) used to warn that use of the stuff just once would void their warranty.

If you read the package of any chlorine bleach you will see the words "corrosive" because that is what the stuff can do. LCB can and will harm many types of metal such as some forms of stainless steel and so forth. Front loading washers often have SS inner and or outer tubs. Modern front loaders also have a wide array of sensors between the tubs that can have metal parts that are subject to harm caused by bleach. Some brands of SS sinks sold here advised against using cleaners containing bleach (chlorine) routinely. This advice comes because most cleanser and more and more cleaning products sold in the USA are loaded with LCB.

American top loading washing machines OTHO usually never had sensors between the tubs and the latter were made from vitreous porcelain/enameled steel which in theory is not harmed by LCB. Long as the surface is not damaged or chipped to expose the underlying metal things should be fine.

In any case both for top and front loading machines have gone to plastic inner and or outer tubs. This fiberglass or whatever is not harmed by LCB. Then all you need worry about is the sensors.

European washing machine makers from Miele on down threw up their hands in defeat trying to convince American housewives and others *not* to use LCB. Now all if not most washers from that side of the pond sold here not only allow/recommend LCB but provide a space in dispenser for it to be used.

 

[danemodsandy]

Better Be Specific, Dear:

Just in case anyone is wondering what will neutralize chlorine bleach, the short answer is: Hydrogen peroxide.

I'm saying this because it's possible to do yourself some real mischief if you start thinking your way through the problem. LCB is a base, and acids counteract bases, so a handy acid should do the trick, right? This reasoning has led many a person to the vinegar bottle, and the result has been chemical pneumonia or worse from the toxic gas produced when bleach hits vinegar. Or vice versa.

The reaction may not be harmful if concentrations of the chemicals are low and ventilation is good, but why fool around with a combination used to make deadly chlorine gas in a couple of world wars?

So, hydrogen peroxide. Not vinegar, mmkay?

 

[launderess]

Would Still Go With A Sour (Acid)

Since those substances also deal with alkaline residue in addition to neutralizing remaining trace amounts of chlorine bleach.

Word there is "trace". Anti-chlors are used in the final rinse *after* multiples before to remove as much of LCB as possible.

 

[iheartmaytag]

I'll use it to wash the car, or something,

Don't do it!!!
Some detergents will strip the wax and cause cloudiness in the clear-coat finish of the car.

If you use it on the car use it on the wheels or something that won't mar the appearance.

 

[stan]

Harley

Thanks for thinking of that, I dought this stuff has the strength, but will take your advice, and not wash the car with it LOL.

Laundress, your last two posts here where spot on! You were at your best with the explainations. I appreciate how well worded they were, and glad you dropped in on this one.
The laundry sour is something I have always thought should be available to the average consumer, and not left to " fend for themselves" and should be on the shelf next to the LCB. Clorox would do well to make there own version, to be used after the use of LCB.

When I worked in Dry Cleaning, laundry sour had to be used even when LCB wasn't used, just to remove/ neutralize the residue from the strong detergents. If someone in the back had forgotten to use the sour, the shirt presser would be the first to see it, as the hot press would tell on them! The whole load would have to be re rinsed with sour.

 

[kenmoreguy89]

Launderess....
I think some of the things you say are just your thoughts..

For example, the fact of the heaters, well, today many, many good water heaters still make water 160°F-170°F, according to what I could see in brochures...
Distance from water heater and heat loss:
It is okay what you say, but that's why pipes are insulated, regarding heat loss in the machine, that also possible and it happens,of course, but I think water will never loose more than 20°c in such circumstances nor in the short 15 to 18 minutes that toploader agitator machines require to get the laundry clean, moreover as I could see, in most of occasions,in many house laundry areas were and are historically located near water heaters just for this reason, they got water more hot being near them, there're exceptonal cases where you can find washer and dryer very far from heater...but principally it is so.

Regarding certain stains that would get more "setted up" than how it is originally, I mean with a direct hot fill, that's a true statement, one I recall is blood, but such stains gets out (at least for me) perefectly as the wash proceed.. I almost never made a cool prewash.
Prewash in European machines is required, for heavily soiled loads as you say, it removes the "biggest" part of dirt before starting the wash...that's a universal procedure usually made for the same reasons in both the machines types...

Regarding oxy bleaches in detergents, not sure of the times you refer to...
But I don't think that there were just a few...another was All powder for example and then others I know..
Of course if you talk about earlier ages than 60s it was rare to find perborate,and that was everywhere....
Such stuff was called abd claimed by detergents makers on packages with names like : "bleach action"..."bleach powder" but that was it.
Regarding Chlorine bleach affecting the detergent, it of course affects Enzymes (kills them) and nutralize effect of OBs, also true it would get the laundry white and remove the same way enzymatic stains..so for those who preferred adding chlorine for various reasons that was fine anyway as it worked or did what the detergent for various reasons could not make..and that's why infact as you say it was suggested and still is nowadays suggested to add it durng the last minutes of the wash..
I completely agree with the speech of Chlorine left in clothes..it's really hard to get it off of clothes...in some circumstances infact, when not completely rinsed it may give the opposite effect during both automatic or line drying..
A garment not well rinsed from chlorine both for the action of heat of the dryer and sun in line drying would get yellowed..
Weakening of fabrics treated with bleach is well known fact for me...as I said and I'll keep sayng.

Again, regarding water heaters and fact that americans are not that bothered to wash at hot temperatures, well, that's your find, mine are different...
True, many don't care nowadays, not like older people used (younger people infact), but not all, nor I think the most..
And regarding the use of bleach as they're wedded to it, well, I think it is partially true, and that's makes sense when you speak of people that tried everything and then gets back to bleach as their conditions, for the most disparate reasons, can't make work other stuff...
But, not for the most... if for the most bleach would be the answer to everything, then they would not care to have detergents that makes the work of the bleach...they would just produce and seek for simple soap-like stuff, without all those dfferent OBs, enzymes and indeed bleaching agents...

As you can see some of your finds are pretty different from what I could see...
But I fully agree with some of your statements...

About bleach in european front loaders:
Still find crazy that SOME machines would get ruined by bleach.
Regardless sensors, even in machines sold in Italy back then and today with the "sensors" would be perfectly okay to use bleach in...
Otherwise they would not make machines with automatic bleaching cycle...
So I don't really get this...
Bleach is corrosive, sure it is, but not that much... a washer if it is a serious one should handle it, no matter how many sensors "fuzzy" or whatever...
From what I know reading older manuals of AEG machines and others that had nothing but a temperature sensor and a normal pressure water level sensor...yet even there they stated you must not to use bleach...and so like for new they stated that for other older models, no difference, no "techlogical" matter.. the same was for the less electronic and more mechanical ones you could find...
Indeed, for most italian machines it was and still is perfectly okay... even the ones with the most "sofisticated electronic trinkets"...

So IMO they're not serious machines in that sense also...

Sandy: Duchessa??? LOL Rather Duca, don't you dare! LOL
I live in a condo with central heating, this means we have a large heater that heats water for the whole condo.
I pay rates based on consume of liters, I have to check well how much money it cost me for cubic liter...
But, the bill arrives every two months and the cost of forniture is pretty high, but not too much...
You see, my granma for examples lived in a taller condo than mine, an attic at 14 floor, there water would come at 120°F, and because she lived in an attic even less, infact for her maytag she had installed an accumulatory gas heater just for it.... (you're often not allowed to have gas water heaters when you've centrals, some regulations prohibit this, but I would not give a damn)...
My granma paid almost as much as me for her hot water..but her was less hotter..
The average hot water in apts here is of 130°f-150°c f in central heaters buildings...at least this is in my town..
For me is a normal water hotness the one I get, slightly more than the average yes but good to be otherwise I'd have the need to have installed another gas heater for my laundry...
We pay for the liters we use, so it means that when my granma needed a greater flow of hot water to have it the temp she wanted (so hot water counter meter numbers would count more liters used) with my temperature I could use less flow and mix it with cold and have the same temperature using less hot water,simply hotter...
My bill is pretty high, but no more than it was the one of my grandma and not that much of the average...
The heater in my condo is not run by the condo, but by a gas, fuel and heating company..
And we recently have had the heater changed as the old one started giving problems.
Now, the most of newer apartment complex opted for individual heating with wall type heaters/furnaces as so everyone can get the water at the temperature he desires and deciced whenever to run the radiators or not and at which temperature,paying just gas bills..
Other older apartments whenever didn't have a central hot water system had both simple gas or electric accumulatory/static heaters or instant gas ones ( in italian called: Boiler/scaldabagno) that would produce water almot boiling infact...
Now the electric ones mostly disappeared to leave space to gas ones and especially intsant gas ones...

Nobody ever complained in my condo about water being too hot, rather is common in other buildings having people complaining that is not hot enough..
As long as you pay for hot water for liters you use is good to have water coming the hottest possible, especially when cost are standardized for about everyone...
If we paid less per liter then I would gladly accept the proposal of turning heater to a lower temperature and have installed a gas heater for my washer..
But since we pay that much I'm happy this way...

At the farm my father has a large wood-heater that produce hot water for sanitary use and heats water for radiators..the maximum temperature you can set is of 176°f (80°c)....
For my new house there (in the other building of the farm), we are thinking to opt for one of those wood stoves/kitchens that would heat water for sanitary and house heating plus being able to bake in it's oven and cook on it...and put also a wall heater/furnace for summer and in the eventuality the stove would go out of service...
The name of the product is Bosky, Thermorossi.
http://www.thermorossi.com/ita/legna.php?gruppo=3&padre=1&figlio=2

[this post was last edited: 9/19/2013-04:57]

 

[launderess]

Listen Bub

What temperatures American water heaters will make versus what comes out of the taps are two different things. For years Americans have been advised to limit the temp of "hot" water to 120F, both to conserve energy and to protect children, the elderly and others against possible scald burns. Yes, some homes do choose to crank up their hot water to 140F or above, but that will depend on many factors including what sort of energy used to heat water and how much it costs.

Not every home has insulated hot water pipes, indeed I don't recall a single home having them in our area growing up nor have I see one ever.

And no, not all American homes have their laundry areas remotely near the source of hot water. Washing machines can be in basements, garages, off car ports, in or off kitchens and so forth in private homes. Maybe the water heater is next to the washer, maybe it is not. Much depends upon when and how the home was designed and or constructed. Many housewives today and others are moving their washing machines and dryers up from basements to first floors. They are certainly not going to move the water heater upstairs as well.

Just look at some American television shows such as Bewitched (washer and dryer in a nook in kitchen), and the Brady Bunch (laundry room off the kitchen near maid's bedroom) and you won't see a water heater in sight.

Then there are those who live in multi-family homes and or apartment buildings. They certainly do not often have water heaters in their apartments (though some do, again it depends upon several factors), thus hot water must come up from the basement or ground floor usually where the central heater/boiler is located.

Pre-wash cycles:
Were not universal in American top loading machines historically or now. Just look at the various controls and or manuals posted through this group for top loading washers, especially vintage. Of course such cycles did exist as did versions such as the "Super Wash" on Whirlpool machines. But again this was not universal across all brands and models.

What Americans call "hot" water for washing widely varies, but it is usually between 120F to 140F. What temps the machine will give and or allow is another matter.

Don't know where you have been shopping for American detergents and or whom you've been speaking to regarding laundry habits here; but am here to tell you LCB is big for whites and colourfast laundry. Shelves in supermarkets and shops are full of the stuff and you can see persons pouring LCB into washers by the cup full at Laundromats.

No, most Americans do not see a contradiction between using lots of LCB and TOL detergents with enzymes and OBAs. Indeed one has nothing to do with the other. I've even seen persons using LCB when Tide with Bleach was the detergent. In essence adding oxygen and chlorine bleach to the same wash load. Many of the attendants at Laundromats do this all the time. It's not my laundry nor my job so keep well buttoned, but it does explain the pitiful state some of some service wash.

Americans are also wedded to LCB for its perceived sanitizing properties. Clorox used to make a huge deal about this and still does, even though not all versions of their chlorine bleach are registered disinfectants. [this post was last edited: 9/19/2013-10:37]

 

[yogitunes]

@Laundress.....

YOU GO GIRL!....

 

[kenmoreguy89]

Listen dear.

I'd be glad if you'd remind me the exact line where I did write that in ALL of the homes laundry areas are loacated near water heaters, I have said in most of occasions, in many houses, that to me means often, but absolutely not ALWAYS..
There's a huge difference between the two...
One is total BS, the other is not..
They were historically OFTEN placed near the water heater..or in it's proximity in the house..
I get though different thing is always more today, in modern days as you say laundry locations are moving from the usual locations they "generally" had in the past to other corners of the house and in most of these occasions it happens to be far from the heater...I'm not surprised at all...
Anyway that's a secondary part of the speech, not so much relative or important and unless you live in a castle-like house I think you'd not get that much of heat loss... but anyway this thing is just a minimal part of the general speech, for how I see things..

Just wanted to point a few things out..

Prewash:
Prewash was a TOL feature often, that's correct, also true that a pre-wash was easily made with a rinse cycle and spin and then manual adavancing to wash, and that's what people did...

Detergents: Never spoke of contradiction, if you got it this way it is not what I meant...I just said that since, for disparate reasons, one would find that a detergent, product (new or old) does not work, thenwould rather use the "proven bleach" to get the job done, and that's what happened and happens, and that's what one would do a priori when knows that such detergent will not bring stuff white and or not get out a certain stains, here is how it will soon become an habit to use bleach, so this if one misses the conditions such as for example water enough hot, a bad dirty white load that turns clean and nice without bleach will never happen today, nor tomorrow, nor likely even using the most rated of detergents available.
Most people do not even know what stuff is inside detergents, they just think: "the stuff removes these stains, no it does not" and in case they knew it would not they would rather go grabbing bleach and use it, and would soo become an habit, which is surely easier rather than wondering if there's something else they can do about it and so then do it... unfortunately sometimes as I said, is not possible to do something else even if one would like to.. so when I say: "It's easier to grab a bottle of bleach" I mean it's actually easier and in some occasions/cases unfortunately is the only thing you could do for too many reasons, that includes even financial limitations.
Sometimes happens also that something else could be easily done but user's both don't know of or don't care of..or it's too lazy..etc....
BUT
This does not means that in both the cases said detergent would not have done the job the same way, but in different conditions, and so without the bleach...
And when I say that I will never understand people that use bleach for cleaning I take for granted I'm not speaking of the ones that have no way to do otherwise for the reasons above,but I'm referring to the lazy one not willing to do otherwise even if they could..I refer to people not seing their laundry disintegrating wash after wash without caring of it, I'm refer to ones keeping using bleach like a banshee for every load that has a few stains when there would be products that may cost a buck more, but would do the same job of their so loved bleach..
That's what I'm talking about...and there're alot out there!

Said this, even here in Italy shelves are full and you could see some do that in laundromats and at home, keep in count that often in laundromats temperatures are too low and kept so purposedly to lower running cost...then shorter washes in coin operated type machines, especially coin-op front loaders, are not what I'd personally call clean...and here you'd want and need the bleach.
But I know it wanted to be an example.. it does not matter commercial or not...

I see that nowadays, there people not caring anymore of hot washes, especially younger people you know, the ones that always less have teached the basis of housekeeping by their mothers, but that's the same everywhere... but there is a difference when it comes to talk of europe and laundry and temperatures... in europe you find guidelines for laundry, you set a specific temperature and that is..you cannot escape from that...simple: 30-40°c Colored darks and wollens, 60°c : Whites and colorfast 95°c: Boilwash...
Hard go wrong, the temperature you set, the temperature you get..
Temperature knobs have all these setting: 30, 40, 50, 60, 70, 80, 95..
In USA you have 3 settings: Cold, warm, Hot... so who is gonna tell someone if the hot setting actually will have enough hot water coming out the tap? Who is gonna say them this water is hot enough, no it is not...
They're like: "I set hot, it should be hot" even if water getting out is actually barely warm.
Here is why the conception of hot wash soon gets distorted, forgotten, like it's happening always more among youngers..they're not teached anymore...
So here they will likely use bleach like a banshee as nothing or very few would get acceptably clean and white..

So here I say that bleach is also often used when there're not the conditions to have detergent working or doing it's "full" job, one case are the machine that could not fill water enough hot or have enough hot washes, of course way more differently than europe where they heat water theirself, such conditions are of course likely to be in the USA and that's why the bleach has more popularity also, as there're some that can't get the conditions to make a decently clean laundry without it..so it is actually needed from some folks more than is averagely in europe, but still not for the most just for some...largely yes, but not from all nor the most..and not all the times..

BTW..what americans call hot wash matter.. well who knows it probably vary from area to area the consideration about how much how washes has to be hot... so even bleach use would vary from area to area...

As I was saying, the same way even here in Italy and elsewhere in Europe like Spain or Greece, Romania ecc there're some people who would use bleach in laundry as well, this for many reasons, some do that convinced is the only thing that sanitizes, others says is the only thing that gets stains out, others says that it's the only thing making stuff white...not the most even here, but some probably less than in USA, okay, but they would...to make a percentage something like the 30% of italians...spain who knows, gues the same, little more or little less.. I can get that in Spain there's the same conception as Italy.
So you easily get (and I give it for granted) that even in countries where there're the most of front loaders, so your beloved european front loaders boiling washers, there're people who would still use bleach, this let you realize that it is also a cultural-habit reason for some, then it strictly depend on other factors also, like detergents quality... etc...
So matter of the temperature is just one of the many, while it is important is not the only one...it's rather a blend of matter including cultural and social ones.

We could push this conversation so far.....and probably would never end..
Looks like also some of my words are always taken wrongly...not for what I actually mean..
But again this is not the first nor I think the last time that something like this happens..and nor the first or the last one that we will disagree on something..

You can't always agree with someone..

[this post was last edited: 9/19/2013-11:15]

 

[rapunzel]

"adding oxygen and...

...chlorine bleach to the same wash load"

Guilty as charged. I do that with my white hot washes and color fasts occasionally, when they are very dirty and stained. First everythign gets washed for 15 minutes with detergent and oxygen bleach in 140 degree water, then I let it soak with intermittent agitation for half an hour and after that I let it wash another 5 minutes with LCB before it all goes through two deep and spray rinses. The first deep rinse is usually warm as well.

I used to LCB cloth diapers too. First they'd go through a tepid pre-wash followed by a hot wash, with LCB being added to the last 5 minutes of the wash. They were as white as white can be.

 

[kenmoreguy89]

And............

Then there're  even people like her.... LOL

Poor girl though...

 

[yogitunes]

well theres always gonna be someone going to extremes.....

but for some things, other than laundry, bleach can work wonders, as mentioned, for treating skin from poison ivy and such, a simple solution applied to the area can help cleanse reduce the oils....

Liquid Tide is good for this as well....I had poison ivy once, treated with Tide as the doc recommended, gone in a little more than a day....a lot better than calamine lotion, applied for days....

 

[kenmoreguy89]

Fels Naphta soap has been known for generations to treat poison Ivy also....

 

[kenmoreguy89]

Anyway, it was meant for a laugh......of course bleach can and is used for other purposes and even for some personal care use and treatment...
I use bleach on my skin in lack of else (usually strong peroxide) to remove the nicotin from the cigarette, especially as sometimes I roll my own ones, the shorter filters are prone stain my finger and nails...
A disgusting thing...when you see someone with yellow finger, it really looks filthy.

 

[retromania]

Bleach Water Bath

You've got to be freakin kidding me??!!!!!! :O lolll

 

[tomturbomatic]

Suds level for combos on the Oxydol box

Combos had larger drums than front loading washers and the water level was below the door window and usually below the door opening, something that was not true for Bendix front loading washers. A high sudser like Oxydol was not the best choice for use in a combo, but if it was used in one, you wanted the suds level to be low enough that it was just visible through the window and not up on the window which would be a serious oversudsing situation.

 

[supersuds]

I see

Thank you, Tom. I imagine not many other people would be able to answer that question!

 

[stan]

Bleach bath! My strange addiction!

I'm from Napa.
We've got a nut house here, we locals call it the booby hatch!
It comes in padded, or un padded! Someone needs to show it to her! She'd quit!

Just to keep it on topic.. She'd be better off adding a teaspoon full of vintage Oxydol to her bath water, instead of the bleach. LOL

 

[kenmoreguy89]

dding oxydol to the bath....LOL
Well, but there it would not have really worked!!!! If the totally true assumptions that water hotter than 120 is potentially considered to give scalds,i cannot Imagine her bathing in 140° water to have oxydol working...LOL

But that made think a bt...and found it funny under a certain point of view...at least it's good for something:

She is not afraid of germs...But" Whenever I take a shower and or bath I have to use bleach...I have to use it!"LOL
Well...
If she has her water heater heating too low (water in the tank lower of 140°), at least we know that the threatening of Legionella that on the other hand people has always been warned of  by other health organs is definitely averted ...LOL
Even true that even when setting 120° some, probably most water heaters can still provide water as hot as 150° or with oscillations of 20° because of oscilattions of probes sensing in the tank...
But at least we know that she will never contract Legionellosis by bathing. LOL

 

[stan]

Hi all

Thought I'd comment on this detergent after using it, on, and off basis, for a while now (trying to give it a fair shot)
As someone said up thread "it's not terrible" but dose not meet expectations most here would require.

I did find that if I spiked it with a little washing soda, and borax, it preformed much better, and noticed a little more sudsing
(but not a lot) The addition of STPP, and some non chlorine bleach instead, would most likely put a little more hair on its chest!
So if someone has any of these other additives (think most of us do) you can make it work for moderately soiled laundry.

I also spiked one load with a Tbls of finely grated Lye Soap, the two together, appeared to achieve decent chemistry, and got some good shifting. This was on a med load (T.L). about 10 gallons per cycle.

 

[launderess]

Borax and Washing Soda

Are alkaline builders which in theory should improve the performance of any liquid detergent. By this we mean you are not only increasing the pH of the wash water but each bring other "goodies" to the laundry party that pure liquid detergents alone normally do not. This is partially the idea behind those "boost" pods from P&G and others. In addition to enzymes they contain oxygen bleach and IIRC small amounts of soda.

Soap in addition to being alkaline in solution brings various other properties as well. So there you are then.

 

[stan]

Thanks Dear

I wondered about the "boost" by P&G.