P&G again considers cheaper Tide

[danemodsandy]

Yeah....

....Whatever happened to soap and water as a clean smell? When did it become necessary to start smelling like an alien cathouse to smell "good?"

 

[dirtybuck]

Dustin:

Or even "Classic Tide" (a reverse order like "Coca-Cola Classic").

 

[retromania]

Tide

I just wish they would take some of the sudsing agent out of it. I live in a soft water area and with Tide it's suds for days! I have reduced the amount I put in the wash and it still suds too much. The Sears detergent I use is low suds.

 

[frigilux]

I agree, Andy. Tide has over 30 variations; you'd think just one of them could be an ultra-low sudsing version. I have the same problem with Tide in soft water: It just won't go away!

 

[mich]

Is it just me..

But when I use Tide Powder, I notice the suds briefly during the first few minutes, but you can start to see them die off, too...

Fairly sure this is the work of the silicone they use as de-foamer, but, for me, I think Tide does a decent job at rinsing. Everything is Pretty much gone by the 2nd rinse, and the 3rd rinse is very clear, no suds whatsoever.

 

[kenmoreguy64]

I don't have a rinsing issue with Tide --- Charlotte's water is moderately soft but not highly. My mother, who has a water softener, cannot use any of the liquid Tides in towels because the suds linger too much. She doesn't seem to have the problem with Cheer and Gain.

I think that is improving in some of the recent Tide powders. My experience is that they are much less sudsy than their older less-concentrated counterparts but I just wish they didn't get so clumpy once the box has been open a few weeks.

 

[toploader1984]

tide

tide pods don't suds at all. i like them.

 

[launderess]

We Have Decently Enough Soft Water Here

So one finds careful dosing is required of all P&G detergents in our stash. The current "HE" offernings of Gain & Tide (regular and unscented) liquids require *very* small amounts. In order of one to two tablespoons adjusted for load size and soil level. Even the slightest amount over and you'll not only have froth but a very hard time rinsing.

Have all but given up on the vintage "ultra" Tide powder. While one can control the suds to an extent with defoamer, the stuff is *very* difficult to rinse. Suspect it is the Zeolites and washing soda. Can sometimes take five (5) rinses to get it all out.

 

[joe_in_philly]

I agree with Launderess and Kenmoreguy64 regarding sudsing and rinsing. If I used just a little too much of the older versions of HE Tide powders, then it was nearly impossibly to rinse out. The newer HE powders are better at rinsing, but I don't use close to the recommended dose. I always use the extra rinse, which results in 3 rinses with my washer. I realize a longer, faster spin after the wash is the best way to improving rinsing. If I pause then resume my washer during it's normally short after-wash spin, it increases the spin time, resulting in better rinsing.

I also wonder if I worry too much about rinsing. I like to see no suds in the last rinse, and little or no detergent smell when the cycle finishes. Perhaps some suds in the final rinse is okay?

My FL washer is over 10 years old. Does anyone know if the newer FL washers, which are even more thrifty with water, have longer/faster intermediate spins to increase rinsing efficiency? When I first got my washer, there weren't many HE detergents on the US market. I suspect that the first spin on my HE3t was purposefully kept brief and slow to prevent suds issues, especially when items that tend to generate more suds (like towels) were washed.

 

[stan]

Rinsing

is important of course.
What I don't understand is why it's so difficult with detergents, in this case, P&G products?

Ever since detergents came out, one of the claims to fame, was the fact that they rinsed away so much easier than soaps.

So why in 2013, after we've put a man on the moon, are we having to rinse so many times with detergent?

Would bumping up the rinse temp, make it a little easier?

Maybe the new "Simple Tide" will have a less complicated ingredient formula, and rinse out, with one rinse!

 

[launderess]

Much Depends Upon The Product

Many of the vintage brands of detergent in my stash as well as most European versions are very easy rinsing, once you get the dosage down. However American laundry detergents, especially Tide can be quite difficult.

Methinks it has much to do with amounts and types of surfactants and builders used.

The vintage Gain powder detergent one used recently was quite clean rinsing. I mean wash and rinse waters were surprisingly clear. As opposed to Tide modern and vintage and even All (with Bleach, Borax and Brighteners)powders. Borax, washing soda, Zeolites, all the "cloudy" builders/water softeners can be a total pain to rinse away if used in excess. Gain was from the days of good ole phosphate built detergent. FAB and All though they contain STPP also contain a good amount of Borax, a substance not easily rinsed from laundry. Both will rinse clear if dosed properly, otherwise an extra rinse or two on top of the five my Miele already does is in order.

Since my AEG uses less water than the Miele only use modern European detergents such as Persil or Ariel.

 

[stan]

Dear

Do you have full control of your rinse temps with your AEG and Miele?

Just curious. As I have never seen, or used either of these machines? Have never use a TL for that mater LOL.
You know me.. I keep thing pretty simple, and old school here but I also don't feel right unless I see clear water in the laundry sink on the second rinse.

We know with soap, the water can't be cold for good rinsing... why I wonder if bumping the rinse temps would help those struggling to get their P&G out, and down the drain?

 

[launderess]

AEG is cold fill only while the Miele must have both hot and cold taps.

Of the two the Miele is more mechanical and aside from frequent use of hot water going through the cold water valve, and possibly causing damage, can in theory rinse in whatever water temperature one wishes.

The AEG is far more computer controlled. One sets the wash temperature and machine takes things from there. Have "cheated" by allowing warmish water to fill when doing washes >140F to save sometime and energy, but not sure how the washer will react to hot water going in during the rinses.

Not sure if hotter water temps would help with rinsing modern detergents. I mean the surfactants and builders are pretty much immune from all but the coldest water temps. Boiling OTOH will cause textile fibers to relax and open, thus releasing soils and detergent residue, but there comes another problem. You've heard me speak of encrustation? That is when even minute qualities of soils or laundry product residue along with hard water minerals become trapped in textile fibers blasted open either via high temps and or pH levels.

The trend for better commercial laundry detergents and now even domestic is towards near to neutral pH levels so not to run the risk of encrustation.
This is what Tide "Vivid" is going on about when they say longer fabric life along with whiter and brighter wash.....

There is also if one makes rinses hot to very hot you are keeping detergent components active. Things like bleaches and alkaline builders. The latter become more aggressive as temps increase.

 

[stan]

Thank You Laundress

for that explanation.

Seems we will all have all find our way, with our unique situations, with regards to dosing.
(water hardness, soil level, machine functions, wash and rinse temp, and how many rinses)

Guess that's part of the reason why there are so many types detergents on the shelves!

 

[re563]

well

P&G must be listening to someone. Watch TV last night and the exclaimed that Tide with Bleach is back!!. However, the fact remains that P&G has priced themselves out of the market. I use Arm and Hammer and get great results. I also use All 3x stainlifter (blue and yellow bottle) also great results. I have sworn off P&G products for some time now as they keep re-formulating everything to be "better" or "Improved", then they cut the number of loads in a container and keep the price the same or even raise it. 32 loads of Tide is over $8 here in Texas. That is so high for my wallet. Especially, when I can get 100 loads of Arm and Hammer for that price or 96 loads of All.

 

[kenmoreguy64]

Speaking of expensive P&G detergents vs. others

Please excuse me if this has been mentioned before, I think I did a while back in another thread...

Has anyone noticed top loading washers for sale (I look at a lot of Craigslist ads, including those featured in the Shopper's Square forum) will sometimes have a large blackish gray line of slime at the high water line on both the agitator and tub rim? I don't recall ever seeing this 20 years ago.

It seems like some detergents will loosen and remove oily or scummy soil from laundry, suspend it in water, but they can't seem to stop it from re-sticking to other surfaces. I have noticed this a few times when fixing up a machine, as I make it wash for its first load the shop towels I dirtied during the work. Some of these can be rather greasy.

Some inexpensive detergents can't keep that scum suspended until the water is pumped out, and I see the beginning of a scum ring on the agitator, etc. I don't see that happen at all with any P&G products and others like All and Wisk.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Gordon

 

[mich]

Not exactly sure where you buy Tide...

But here, at both Super-Target, and Walmart, Tide is $11.99 for a 100oz, 64 Loads Bottle. The 50oz container, with 32 loads is like, $4.99-$5, although I've seem them mutiple times on Target Clearance for $2-3.

The last time I remember them "reformulating" there Liquid Tide was back in 2007, when Walmart told P&G to make there stuff 2x concentrated, or they'd be Gone for good. Powder Tide was made more concentrated back in 2010 or so, (again, at the Request of Walmart) besides that, I really haven't seen any difference.

One does have to remember, Tide is a TOL (Top of the Line) Detergent, and is very well formulated to tackle stain removal, plus Procter & Gamble spends a LOT of money marketing it. I think, if P&G actually didn't market there product, we'd be able to purchase it for a much better price, but... I do think there is a added cost for the actual ingredients they used to make it, vs other brands..

Now, I'm not saying that Arm & Hammer isn't any good. I've used it before, and thought it was good, but, it definitely doesn't have the Enzymes or Cleaning Power of Tide or All, and I really wouldn't expect it too either.

Personally my Favorite Liquid Detergent, is All Small & Mighty (the Oxy-Active one) and it contains enough Enzymes to do a really good job. Wisk is also a really good brand.

I do personally, though like to keep Liquid Purex, and A&H on hand for cleaning Bed Sheets, and the like, as I don't want as much Enzyme & Other ingredients being used on them. Pretty much just the Base cleaning surfactnats and nothing else

 

[mich]

About that Soap Sum, Oilly Buildup...

My Best Guess, (from what I've seen before) is this is probably a residue or buildup, of laundry soil deposits, that the Detergent one was using wasn't able to suspend properly, and it accumulated at the top of the Water level of the machine.

Despite Believe around here, Old 1950's detergents, with all that froth did have a advantage. Those suds, could actually help to suspend & hold Grease, and could work with Complexing Agents (like Phosphates) to help grease & other soil from redepositing or reaccomplating on the Clothes, or in this Case the washer.

What may have happened.. Someone may have improperly under dosed there Detergent, and the Wash Water couldn't stay Alkaline enough (possibly due to Water Hardness, Excessive Soil, Etc) and as a result, some soil eventually raised to the top, leaving the machine wtih the reisude.

What's distinctive, about P&G detergents, is most commonly, Line 1, on there dosing guides, is a base or correct amount of detergent, based on there Lab Testing of Americas Water Hardness & Quality levels. (They actually collect, and test Water Samples from over 2,000 areas around the Country, to make sure, there formula will still work, no matter if the Water is 1GPG, OR 16 GPG)... As Such, There Detergent, when dosed and poured correctly is commonly the Right Strength, and dose to properly clean the Clothing, and suspend Water Hardness Levels..

So, There Detergent is more likely to suspend the Minerals, other Detergents might not... Even in the worst case scenarios. This is also why our Queen, Ms. Laundress suggests using so little in her Miele. Her water is probably less then 3GPG, and her Tide forumlation is meant to Handle up to 20...

 

[mich]

Okay...

I could have written that better...

My thought is.. Hard Water interference is the factor, and cause of the Slime/Greasy Black Line.

Hard Water interferes with the Detergents Alkalinity, and Soil Suspension, causing soil to be held in the Wash Water, sometimes accumulating at the top of the Wash Basket.

My Opinion from What I have learned, about P&G is.. they practicality make there Detergent so good, that it'll pretty much deal with anything that's dished out most commonly..

I really need to learn, to dumb down my posts. I feel like I sound, too Chemist, or, too scientific at times...

 

[daveamkrayoguy]

Sorry to have passed up a box of "Ultra" Tide going for $15.99, minus the 30% Off at a grocery store going out of business...

The line was too long, it was too hard to ferret money I was REALLY willing to part with (the gray meat & decaying seafood was already driving me out the door!) and think at the store I could work at, I could buy what was that really "mini-size" for less, w/ my Associate Discount & all!

-- Dave