P & G High Performance Scam

[re563]

Sudsman:

Would you say it's low sudsings or not? I'm asking because after reading through this thead several times, I'm just wondering if this is P & G's cross over to making all their detergents "HE" compatable.

 

[mrboilwash]

Launderess

German Persil only contains percarbonate as a bleaching agent and no perborate, that is absolutely right so far.
But there is still plenty of TAED in it as a bleaching activator.
Our current powdered Ariel versions for whithes contain besides of percarbonate and TAED small amounts of "metaborate". Is this the same chemical as perborate? I must admit I have no idea...Maybe you can tell me.
BTW I sometimes get the impression that American consumers confuse optical brighteners with bleach. As far as I know OBAs work similar like vintage blueing. They work like an invisible dye just reflecting more of the blue light spectrum and therefor let things appear whiter.

 

[zipdang]

Frigilux, how much Tide Coldwater do you use in your front loader? I'd like to try it in mine (KitchenAid), but had suds issues the last time I used a non-HE detergent. Do you cut the recommened amount by 1/2 or 1/3?

 

[sudsman]

re563

NO, I would not say that it is a lo sudz product by any means. however we are useing it in the domestic F/L machines too and it does a good job , only use about 1/4 to 1/3 cup by measure or 1 oz by weight .So far we have not had suds problems unless my wash man gets carried away and adds 1/2 cup or more then bubble bath time... but I quickly quilled the problem with a liffle fab sof. The first 2 loads the P&G Rep even had problems tring to figure out how much to use. He had sudz all over the top of the 100lb machine and comming out the side supply injection.. It was really a hoot to watch him. I added about 2 oz of softner and stopped the whole problem , He is the rep and he did not even know to do this,,, Some rep!!!

 

[oxydolfan1]

It must be so cool to watch all of these machinations and chemistry going on on such a HUGE basis, lol!

 

[sudsman]

scottymac

go to thread delux 8324 you can see all of our plant.

 

[launderess]

Mr. Boilwash

Thank you for clearing up the TAED situation with Persil's new formula. Have only seen the new packaging a local Miele dealer shop, and for some reason Miele USA insists on slapping an "American" contents label over the German version. The Amercian label only lists percarbonate bleach, and not "bleaching activator/TAED", as the old Persil formula/boxes.

Metaborate is made by combining borax with sodium carbonate, it has a slightly higher pH than natural borax. Interesting that Perisil has any sort of borax as borates are on the EU hit list. Perhaps metaborates are less damaging to marine and plant life than borax.

Read somewhere that TAED was a better bleaching activator for European laundry because of the long cycle times, and that NOBS (the bleach activator preferred for the North American market), suited this side of the pond because if it's faster action time, thus better suited for short wash cycles. Another interesting thing the article stated was that TAED supposedly did something to the washing machine boots of American washing machines, while NOBS did not.

 

[frigilux]

Hi David! For highly-stained loads of kitchen whites, I use the dosage for a 'medium load' as directed on the box (about half of a scoop). This makes for a sudsy load. You may want to try using less. I use 1/4 to 1/3 of a scoop for other loads. Hope it works as well for you as it does for me. I have very soft water and that may make a difference.

 

[zipdang]

Thanks Frigilux!

I appreciate the advice on dosing and hope to try powdered Tide CW in my machine soon. Today I was at Target and intended to buy some TCW, and much to my surprise they didn't have any! This was a first, as they always have had both the liquid and powder in ample supply. (But I did find a jar of my beloved Marmite in the first store I went to, although that's another story for another thread....) I'll try some other markets tomorrow, but hopefully this isn't a sign of things to come.

It's very helpful to know you safely use 1/4 to 1/3 of the scoop for regular loads; I can always add a touch of HE powder for safe measure. I've got about a half-full box of Country Save non-chlorine (percarbonate) bleach that I can use in addition for adding whitenting and stain removal. I hope to test it out on my table linens stained with Thanksgiving foods.

 

[mrboilwash]

Launderess

Never heard about NOBS before, so I got curious and did some reserch. Apparently they work better and faster in typical American laundry conditions (lower temperatures and higher dilution) than compared with TAED systems. But they seem to be very unpopular on this side of the pond. Maybe manufacturers are too afraid of fading colors along with longer cycles.
It also looks like as if all American "With Bleach" powders are NOBS activated whereas regular powders just rely on TAED.

 

[launderess]

P&G

Nabbed several booxes of the new P&G Tide "Pro-Line" presoak powder. This product is sold to commercial laundries for use as a presoak/stain remover to "reclaim" stained laundry which did not come totally clean with normal wash cycle.

Well a quick search of the MSDS turns up that this product is nothing but Tide detergent, the same Tide without bleach detergent that is sold already. Scent is different, and the product is designed to be low sudsing for HE machines (according to P&G), but the ingredients are basically the same.

L.