polkanut
Well-known member
I think that the "McSame" camp had better do some fast 'splainin, probably won't though.
Palin baby story has legs
- Thread starter polkanut
- Start date
In the Dem convention thread I posted about a rumor that was floating about Palin's infant not being her but her daughter's. Well the story has broken big and it looks like it's possible McCain missed it. From all reports she wasn't vetted as thought.
I'm not a big fan of The Daily Koz but he has an indepth article posted.
also, interesting read here:
http://www.politicalbase.com/profile/jnail/blog/&blogId=3422
So, what's your take on this story?
(sorry, don't know how to post multiple links in posting...)
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/8/30/121350/137/486/580223 www.politicalbase.com/profile/jnail/blog/&blogId=3422
I'm not a big fan of The Daily Koz but he has an indepth article posted.
also, interesting read here:
http://www.politicalbase.com/profile/jnail/blog/&blogId=3422
So, what's your take on this story?
(sorry, don't know how to post multiple links in posting...)
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/8/30/121350/137/486/580223 www.politicalbase.com/profile/jnail/blog/&blogId=3422
panthera
Well-known member
Let's leave this one alone
Either she is the mother or the grandmother of a child suffering from a severe, incurable chromosomal handicap.
Regardless of her suitability to be one heart-beat away from the presidency, I know how strongly I react when one of my pets is threatened...were a child of mine in a similar situation, I should most definitely do everything in my power to help her. Not, of course, this solution, but I think we should back off big time on this.
Let's leave being despicable to the republicans, they are so very good at it.
Either she is the mother or the grandmother of a child suffering from a severe, incurable chromosomal handicap.
Regardless of her suitability to be one heart-beat away from the presidency, I know how strongly I react when one of my pets is threatened...were a child of mine in a similar situation, I should most definitely do everything in my power to help her. Not, of course, this solution, but I think we should back off big time on this.
Let's leave being despicable to the republicans, they are so very good at it.
My beef with her is not that she's possibly raising her granddaughter, but that she'd like to see creationism taught in public schools. That's a big red flag for me. Creationism should be taught in church, not in science class.
All together now: CREATIONISM IS NOT SCIENCE!!
All together now: CREATIONISM IS NOT SCIENCE!!
andrewinorlando
Well-known member
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- Oct 18, 2004
- Messages
- 1,392
CREATIONISM IS NOT SCIENCE! It's crap.
I say leave the baby story alone - it's none of our business, just as the Clinton affair was none of our business.
What I would like to know is how a woman who has zero experience on the national stage (Alaska has less people in it than Charlotte, NC. There are 18 cities in the US with larger population than Alaska) could possibly be qualified to step in as president, should something happen to a 72 year old man with a history of health issues and emotional problems.
That, and her right-wing wacko beliefs - creationism included - are the real story. The kids have run the country for the last eight years. It's time for some adults to step in, take away the credit card, end these stupid wars, and get the place back in good financial shape. Blatting on about Noah's Ark belongs in church or in a comparative religion course, and that's it.
What I would like to know is how a woman who has zero experience on the national stage (Alaska has less people in it than Charlotte, NC. There are 18 cities in the US with larger population than Alaska) could possibly be qualified to step in as president, should something happen to a 72 year old man with a history of health issues and emotional problems.
That, and her right-wing wacko beliefs - creationism included - are the real story. The kids have run the country for the last eight years. It's time for some adults to step in, take away the credit card, end these stupid wars, and get the place back in good financial shape. Blatting on about Noah's Ark belongs in church or in a comparative religion course, and that's it.
I wholeheartedly agree that transgressions of one's family should not be a disqualification for public service (unless you come from a long line of serial killers!) but I do think if there is truth to this story, it will come out and she will be judged accordingly. And rightly so, regardless of the fact that she may be been trying to protect her family, her judgment, trust and the proclamations of faith and belief would be subject to doubt. I don't think her candidacy could survive such a vetting in the public square.
Ignore it?
I feel the opposite, her actions are a reflection of who she is. Why hide her daughters possible preg. and the birth of her grandson? There are thousands of 16 year old girls who give birth every year. Was it to provide medical insurance? Was it to protect her political career? Was it to protect her daughter?
And if you read the whole story, it raises questions of judgment on Palins part even if her story is true. why would a 44 year old woman in the 8th month of pregnancy who started leaking amniotic fluid proceed to give a speech, and then fly 8 hours to Alaska and then drive an hour of a small community hospital? There were very good hospitals in Texas as well as in Anchorage where her plane landed. Is this the judgment we want in a position of power?
If you factor in the charges of abuse of power that have been filed against her in Alaska, anyone has a right to question her competence, and McCain's for choosing her.
I feel the opposite, her actions are a reflection of who she is. Why hide her daughters possible preg. and the birth of her grandson? There are thousands of 16 year old girls who give birth every year. Was it to provide medical insurance? Was it to protect her political career? Was it to protect her daughter?
And if you read the whole story, it raises questions of judgment on Palins part even if her story is true. why would a 44 year old woman in the 8th month of pregnancy who started leaking amniotic fluid proceed to give a speech, and then fly 8 hours to Alaska and then drive an hour of a small community hospital? There were very good hospitals in Texas as well as in Anchorage where her plane landed. Is this the judgment we want in a position of power?
If you factor in the charges of abuse of power that have been filed against her in Alaska, anyone has a right to question her competence, and McCain's for choosing her.
perc-o-prince
Well-known member
CREATIONISM IS NOT SCIENCE! It's crap.
Everyone's entitled to their opinion, and perhaps Creationism shouldn't be taught in schools, but calling it "crap," or a, "right-wing wacko belief?" Is that necessary???
Chuck
Everyone's entitled to their opinion, and perhaps Creationism shouldn't be taught in schools, but calling it "crap," or a, "right-wing wacko belief?" Is that necessary???
Chuck
golittlesport
Well-known member
The latest behind the rumors
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080901/pl_nm/usa_politics_palin_dc
ST. PAUL (Reuters) - The 17-year-old daughter of Republican vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin is pregnant, Palin said on Monday in an announcement intended to knock down rumors by liberal bloggers that Palin faked her own pregnancy to cover up for her child.
Bristol Palin, one of Alaska Gov. Palin's five children with her husband, Todd, is about five months pregnant and is going to keep the child and marry the father, the Palins said in a statement released by the campaign of Republican presidential candidate John McCain.
Bristol Palin made the decision on her own to keep the baby, McCain aides said.
"We have been blessed with five wonderful children who we love with all our heart and mean everything to us," the Palins' statement said.
"Our beautiful daughter Bristol came to us with news that as parents we knew would make her grow up faster than we had ever planned. As Bristol faces the responsibilities of adulthood, she knows she has our unconditional love and support," the Palins said.
The Palins asked the news media to respect the young couple's privacy.
"Bristol and the young man she will marry are going to realize very quickly the difficulties of raising a child, which is why they will have the love and support of our entire family. We ask the media, respect our daughter and Levi's privacy as has always been the tradition of children of candidates," the statement concluded.
MCCAIN KNEW
Senior McCain campaign officials said McCain knew of the daughter's pregnancy when he selected Palin last week as his vice presidential running mate, deciding that it did not disqualify the 44-year-old governor in any way.
In the short period since she was announced last Friday, Palin has helped to energize the Republican Party's conservative base, giving the McCain camp fresh energy going into the campaign for the November 4 election against Democrat Barack Obama.
McCain officials said the news of the daughter's pregnancy was being released to rebut what one aide called "mud-slinging and lies" circulating on liberal blog sites.
According to these rumors, Sarah Palin had faked a pregnancy and pretended to have given birth in May to her fifth child, a son named Trig who has Down syndrome. The rumor was that Trig was actually Bristol Palin's child and that Sarah Palin was the grandmother.
A senior McCain campaign official said the McCain camp was appalled that these rumors had not only been spread around liberal blog sites and partisan Democrats, but also were the subject of heightened interest from mainstream news media.
"The despicable rumors that have been spread by liberal blogs, some even with Barack Obama's name in them, is a real anchor around the Democratic ticket, pulling them down in the mud in a way that certainly juxtaposes themselves against their 'campaign of change,"' a senior aide said.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080901/pl_nm/usa_politics_palin_dc
ST. PAUL (Reuters) - The 17-year-old daughter of Republican vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin is pregnant, Palin said on Monday in an announcement intended to knock down rumors by liberal bloggers that Palin faked her own pregnancy to cover up for her child.
Bristol Palin, one of Alaska Gov. Palin's five children with her husband, Todd, is about five months pregnant and is going to keep the child and marry the father, the Palins said in a statement released by the campaign of Republican presidential candidate John McCain.
Bristol Palin made the decision on her own to keep the baby, McCain aides said.
"We have been blessed with five wonderful children who we love with all our heart and mean everything to us," the Palins' statement said.
"Our beautiful daughter Bristol came to us with news that as parents we knew would make her grow up faster than we had ever planned. As Bristol faces the responsibilities of adulthood, she knows she has our unconditional love and support," the Palins said.
The Palins asked the news media to respect the young couple's privacy.
"Bristol and the young man she will marry are going to realize very quickly the difficulties of raising a child, which is why they will have the love and support of our entire family. We ask the media, respect our daughter and Levi's privacy as has always been the tradition of children of candidates," the statement concluded.
MCCAIN KNEW
Senior McCain campaign officials said McCain knew of the daughter's pregnancy when he selected Palin last week as his vice presidential running mate, deciding that it did not disqualify the 44-year-old governor in any way.
In the short period since she was announced last Friday, Palin has helped to energize the Republican Party's conservative base, giving the McCain camp fresh energy going into the campaign for the November 4 election against Democrat Barack Obama.
McCain officials said the news of the daughter's pregnancy was being released to rebut what one aide called "mud-slinging and lies" circulating on liberal blog sites.
According to these rumors, Sarah Palin had faked a pregnancy and pretended to have given birth in May to her fifth child, a son named Trig who has Down syndrome. The rumor was that Trig was actually Bristol Palin's child and that Sarah Palin was the grandmother.
A senior McCain campaign official said the McCain camp was appalled that these rumors had not only been spread around liberal blog sites and partisan Democrats, but also were the subject of heightened interest from mainstream news media.
"The despicable rumors that have been spread by liberal blogs, some even with Barack Obama's name in them, is a real anchor around the Democratic ticket, pulling them down in the mud in a way that certainly juxtaposes themselves against their 'campaign of change,"' a senior aide said.
danemodsandy
Well-known member
If True:
I think the Palin story raises enormous questions about her ability to serve.
For one, a lie like that is a real whopper of a falsehood, and we've had enough of those from Dubya and Darth. It points to an ability to put expediency over truth, exactly what we don't need from our next adminstration.
Another point is that it would underscore something we already know to be true about Sarah Palin. She's anti-abortion, which means that she feels the government has legal jurisdiction over a woman's reproductive system. If Palin has done what is claimed, she has taken that position to an extreme, feeling that misrepresentation, falsification of medical and legal records, and lying to a child about its parentage are preferable to an abortion. If true, the story indicates that here is yet another Republican trying to legislate public morals and behaviour when she can't even regulate her own.
There are those, here and on DailyKos, who say we should leave this story alone, or that it should be left to the tabloids. My own feeling is that if true, the story points to the very core of Sarah Palin's character, and that the resemblance of that character - "Do as I say, not as I do." - to Bush and Cheney's is troubling. And if true, it's tabloid behaviour on Palin's part - something John Edwards forgot. You roll in the gutter, you got no right to complain about being swept up with the trash.
I think the Palin story raises enormous questions about her ability to serve.
For one, a lie like that is a real whopper of a falsehood, and we've had enough of those from Dubya and Darth. It points to an ability to put expediency over truth, exactly what we don't need from our next adminstration.
Another point is that it would underscore something we already know to be true about Sarah Palin. She's anti-abortion, which means that she feels the government has legal jurisdiction over a woman's reproductive system. If Palin has done what is claimed, she has taken that position to an extreme, feeling that misrepresentation, falsification of medical and legal records, and lying to a child about its parentage are preferable to an abortion. If true, the story indicates that here is yet another Republican trying to legislate public morals and behaviour when she can't even regulate her own.
There are those, here and on DailyKos, who say we should leave this story alone, or that it should be left to the tabloids. My own feeling is that if true, the story points to the very core of Sarah Palin's character, and that the resemblance of that character - "Do as I say, not as I do." - to Bush and Cheney's is troubling. And if true, it's tabloid behaviour on Palin's part - something John Edwards forgot. You roll in the gutter, you got no right to complain about being swept up with the trash.
Hmm.
So her 17 year old daughter is now 5 months pregnant? OK. The cynic in me forecasts late in October the daughter miscarries and McCain goes for the sympathy vote. But I guess that's too cynical, they really wouldn't do that would they?
A few years ago that thought would have never crossed my mind, 8 years of Bush/Rove did that to me and many in this country. Seeing Machiavellian motives behind every move is SOP now for me.
So her 17 year old daughter is now 5 months pregnant? OK. The cynic in me forecasts late in October the daughter miscarries and McCain goes for the sympathy vote. But I guess that's too cynical, they really wouldn't do that would they?
A few years ago that thought would have never crossed my mind, 8 years of Bush/Rove did that to me and many in this country. Seeing Machiavellian motives behind every move is SOP now for me.
andrewinorlando
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 18, 2004
- Messages
- 1,392
"Everyone's entitled to their opinion, and perhaps Creationism shouldn't be taught in schools, but calling it "crap," or a, "right-wing wacko belief?" Is that necessary??? "
I never thought it was a right wing whacko belief, still don't. Just crap. Pure and simple. Sorry, my opinion.
I never thought it was a right wing whacko belief, still don't. Just crap. Pure and simple. Sorry, my opinion.
alanlendaro
Well-known member
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- Dec 27, 2006
- Messages
- 161
i agreee with Andrew... It's crap
N/M
N/M
From Mayo Clinic website on down syndrome risk factors:
"As a woman's eggs age, there's a greater inclination for chromosomes to divide improperly. So a woman's chances of giving birth to a child with Down syndrome increase with age. By age 35, a woman's risk of conceiving a child with Down syndrome is 1 in 385. By age 40, the risk is 1 in 106. And by age 45, the risk is 1 in 30."
So it is more likely that the older woman is the mother of the down syndrome baby.
Chris.
"As a woman's eggs age, there's a greater inclination for chromosomes to divide improperly. So a woman's chances of giving birth to a child with Down syndrome increase with age. By age 35, a woman's risk of conceiving a child with Down syndrome is 1 in 385. By age 40, the risk is 1 in 106. And by age 45, the risk is 1 in 30."
So it is more likely that the older woman is the mother of the down syndrome baby.
Chris.
toggleswitch2
Well-known member
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- 5,000
An apsirin is quite a good birth-control method; put it betw
"We have been blessed with five wonderful children who we love with all our heart and mean everything to us,"
-Palin
"I have been blessed with five wonderful children who I love with all my heart and mean everything to me."
-Toggle
They are my nieces and that sentence does not mean (imply or infer)that they are mine.
If the child is indeed the daughter's, we dont have to worry about "who will raise the children". The daughter will already have missed the lesson of:
-Go to school.
-Get married.
-Get pregnant.
In that order.
"We have been blessed with five wonderful children who we love with all our heart and mean everything to us,"
-Palin
"I have been blessed with five wonderful children who I love with all my heart and mean everything to me."
-Toggle
They are my nieces and that sentence does not mean (imply or infer)that they are mine.
If the child is indeed the daughter's, we dont have to worry about "who will raise the children". The daughter will already have missed the lesson of:
-Go to school.
-Get married.
-Get pregnant.
In that order.
toggleswitch2
Well-known member
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- May 23, 2008
- Messages
- 5,000
Imagine if Osama....er.... Obama had selected Hillary. If he wins there'd be a contract to off him in a flash to get her into office.
Wich McSame, if he wins they'd be helping him cross the street safely, etc. to ensure Palin doesn't get into office.
Wich McSame, if he wins they'd be helping him cross the street safely, etc. to ensure Palin doesn't get into office.
Follow the Money - again.
Uh huh. "Mavericks" fighting against wasteful spending and unnecessary earmarks - they need to drop this charade.
Palin's Small Alaska Town Secured Big Federal Funds
By Paul Kane
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, September 2, 2008; Page A01
ST. PAUL, Minn., Sept. 1 -- Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin employed a lobbying firm to secure almost $27 million in federal earmarks for a town of 6,700 residents while she was its mayor, according to an analysis by an independent government watchdog group.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...1/AR2008090103148.html?nav=rss_print/asection
Uh huh. "Mavericks" fighting against wasteful spending and unnecessary earmarks - they need to drop this charade.
Palin's Small Alaska Town Secured Big Federal Funds
By Paul Kane
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, September 2, 2008; Page A01
ST. PAUL, Minn., Sept. 1 -- Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin employed a lobbying firm to secure almost $27 million in federal earmarks for a town of 6,700 residents while she was its mayor, according to an analysis by an independent government watchdog group.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...1/AR2008090103148.html?nav=rss_print/asection
panthera
Well-known member
Hey Conservatives,
I seem to recall that one of your nastier lobs against me and anyone who dared to suggest the Emperor isn't wearing clothing is that this is un-patriotic and un-American.
OK, so now your VP choice - the woman who sits one heartbeat away from the presidency:
Was an active member of the Alaskan Independence Party.
This single issue party has one goal, secession from the United States.
OK, let's see you spin this one.
Matt, I have been personally attacked by conservatives - also here in our wonderful place - who have even threatened to have the FBI deport me for not drinking the kool-aid. Yes, I do have a dog in this fight. But that doesn't mean we have to stoop to the same level as the republicans.
Besides, the more we find out about this charming in-duh-vi-dual, the more obvious her unsuitability becomes.
I share your rage at the way these republican monsters have trampled on the US Constitution. But we needn't become such as they...
Anyway, take a look at this link. Or any of the many, many others.
Sheesh, how bad does it have to get before the single issue folks realize the republicans are just using them? A secessionist?!!!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...-Palin-was-in-Alaskan-independence-party.html
I seem to recall that one of your nastier lobs against me and anyone who dared to suggest the Emperor isn't wearing clothing is that this is un-patriotic and un-American.
OK, so now your VP choice - the woman who sits one heartbeat away from the presidency:
Was an active member of the Alaskan Independence Party.
This single issue party has one goal, secession from the United States.
OK, let's see you spin this one.
Matt, I have been personally attacked by conservatives - also here in our wonderful place - who have even threatened to have the FBI deport me for not drinking the kool-aid. Yes, I do have a dog in this fight. But that doesn't mean we have to stoop to the same level as the republicans.
Besides, the more we find out about this charming in-duh-vi-dual, the more obvious her unsuitability becomes.
I share your rage at the way these republican monsters have trampled on the US Constitution. But we needn't become such as they...
Anyway, take a look at this link. Or any of the many, many others.
Sheesh, how bad does it have to get before the single issue folks realize the republicans are just using them? A secessionist?!!!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...-Palin-was-in-Alaskan-independence-party.html
Naming the baby . . .
I'd suggest a nice, traditional name . . . how about Chastity if it's a girl?
I'd suggest a nice, traditional name . . . how about Chastity if it's a girl?
Name the baby: Abstinence Only Palin-Johnston
After all, we've spent more than a Billion dollars on the program.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/apr/16/schoolsworldwide.usa
After all, we've spent more than a Billion dollars on the program.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/apr/16/schoolsworldwide.usa
panthera
Well-known member
It just gets weider and weirder
So, basically, she is willing to remain in the US, if the constitution is overthrown and OT law is applied.
How a gay man can support these people is beyond me.
Christianists are truly neither Christian nor rational, just self-hating whack-jobs.
She does know, doesn't she, that she'll have to swear an oath to uphold the constitution...
http://www.prospect.org/csnc/blogs/...h=09&year=2008&base_name=more_palin_extremism
So, basically, she is willing to remain in the US, if the constitution is overthrown and OT law is applied.
How a gay man can support these people is beyond me.
Christianists are truly neither Christian nor rational, just self-hating whack-jobs.
She does know, doesn't she, that she'll have to swear an oath to uphold the constitution...
http://www.prospect.org/csnc/blogs/...h=09&year=2008&base_name=more_palin_extremism
panthera
Well-known member
Yeah, I know
I keep forgetting that christianists, like the Nazis, have no compunction about lying and giving false witness.
What sick, despicable people. They run around trumpeting their Americanism, their patriotism, but the only thing which really counts, the US Constitution, they use to wipe their filthy arses.
Let's hope somebody in the mass media has the balls to finally bring all this filth to the top of the pond. Every time I hear from the right wing about the 'liberal bias' of the media, I nearly fall off my chair in outrage.
I keep forgetting that christianists, like the Nazis, have no compunction about lying and giving false witness.
What sick, despicable people. They run around trumpeting their Americanism, their patriotism, but the only thing which really counts, the US Constitution, they use to wipe their filthy arses.
Let's hope somebody in the mass media has the balls to finally bring all this filth to the top of the pond. Every time I hear from the right wing about the 'liberal bias' of the media, I nearly fall off my chair in outrage.
A simple DNA test would resolve everything. Heck, they do it on Maury all the time!
I hereby challenge Sarah Palin to take a DNA test. I'll even pay for it.
And while I'm throwing my cash around, I'll pay for a hospital-administered pregnancy test on Bristol, too.
In the meantime, I'll work on mass-producing this bumper-sticker: BRISTOL PALIN: ANOTHER ABSTINENCE-ONLY SUCCESS STORY!
Cost: $1
Free to all Evangelicals and Fundamentalists.
I hereby challenge Sarah Palin to take a DNA test. I'll even pay for it.
And while I'm throwing my cash around, I'll pay for a hospital-administered pregnancy test on Bristol, too.
In the meantime, I'll work on mass-producing this bumper-sticker: BRISTOL PALIN: ANOTHER ABSTINENCE-ONLY SUCCESS STORY!
Cost: $1
Free to all Evangelicals and Fundamentalists.
I agree with dalangdon here.....
I could care less if the girl is having a baby. Just another dumb-decision on certain "activities" by a young girl, so what else is new. If she'll keep it and the family help her, so much the better though, whatever is best for the child is what I'd want to happen.
I think what's important is who is most able to lead the country economically and away from the insane neocon ideas that are undermining this country, and what I mean here is not every decision should be a military decision, is who I hope wins. Our government secret activities in other countries, which end up causing Blowback, isn't in the average American's best interest, its in some special groups best interest, but not ours. We can't afford to police the world, and we can't afford to engage wars and secret activities for the sake of a few corporations which need to make a bigger buck.
The other decision is who is the best qualified person to step in if the President drops dead on Jan. 1st. I know who I think it is, you decide who you think it is, then we all vote.
I could care less if the girl is having a baby. Just another dumb-decision on certain "activities" by a young girl, so what else is new. If she'll keep it and the family help her, so much the better though, whatever is best for the child is what I'd want to happen.
I think what's important is who is most able to lead the country economically and away from the insane neocon ideas that are undermining this country, and what I mean here is not every decision should be a military decision, is who I hope wins. Our government secret activities in other countries, which end up causing Blowback, isn't in the average American's best interest, its in some special groups best interest, but not ours. We can't afford to police the world, and we can't afford to engage wars and secret activities for the sake of a few corporations which need to make a bigger buck.
The other decision is who is the best qualified person to step in if the President drops dead on Jan. 1st. I know who I think it is, you decide who you think it is, then we all vote.
panthera
Well-known member
An interesting incite by a fundamentalist Christian
This was posted this morning, I think it is one of the few non-hysterical, competent views on the topic of Palin coming from the religious right:
Tuesday September 2, 2008
Sarah Palin: A Big Gamble for Religious Conservatives
It's been a long time since religious conservatives have been this elated about anyone. They raised Sarah Palin's choice immediately and rallied rapidly to her defense when news broke that her unmarried, teenage daughter is pregnant.
After a year's worth of stories about whether the religious right was "dead," they now seem to be flexing great muscle, helping to bring about the most antiabortion ticket running on the most antiabortion platform - ever.
But there's something else going on here, and it has at least one Christian leader worried. Mark DeMoss, former chief of staff to Jerry Falwell and now a leading Christian public relations executive, is hoping that Palin turns out well but has been shocked and worried by the reflexive Christian embrace of her.
"Too many evangelicals and religious conservative are too preoccupied with values and faith and pay no attention to competence. We don't apply this approach to anything else in life, including choosing a pastor." Imagine, he said, if a church was searching for a pastor and the leadership was brought a candidate with great values but little experience. "They've been a pastor for two years at a church with 150 people but he shares our values, so we hired him to be pastor of our 5,000 person church? It wouldn't happen! We don't say, 'He shares our values, so let's hire him.' That's absurd. Yet we apply that to choosing presidents. It blows my mind."
A Matter of Validation
Why does this happen? In part, it's about validation. Christians in America feel that national leaders and mainstream media hold them in contempt, so having a real evangelical in power tells the world, "we must not be as crazy as people think we are," DeMoss explains. He refers to the "Yellow Pages mentality" among some Christians: a reference to the idea that some churches publish directories of Christian-run businesses so that other Christians can only patronize them.
To be clear, DeMoss isn't saying Palin is unqualified. "The reality is, we don't know - and neither does McCain if he only met her once." The other Christian leaders who rallied around her didn't know much either. "I'm not hinting something's amiss but we don't know her and the people who gave her glowing response Friday didn't know. The euphoric rush to anoint without knowing -- it's a dangerous thing."
There's one more dynamic that may play out. The more Palin is criticized, the more Christians will come to her defense. That's especially true if critics mock her religion, but almost any attacks on her may enrage Christians. In 2004, one of the techniques the Bush campaign used to rally Christians was to portray him as a man of faith being mocked by liberals and the mainstream media. That just made him seem persecuted, and therefore more Christ-like.
A Comparison to Hillary Clinton
We've already seen that on the gender issue. McCain adviser Carly Fiorina said she was appalled by the Obama campaign's attempts to "belittle Gov. Sarah Palin's experience.... Because of Hillary Clinton 's historic run for the presidency and the treatment she received, American women are more highly tuned than ever to recognize and decry sexism in all its forms. They will not tolerate sexist treatment of Gov. Palin."
Watch soon for Christians to cast criticism of Palin as being anti-Christian.
There are several possible risks to evangelicals of having embraced her so rapidly. It's clear that appealing to religious conservatives was key factor for McCain, so if Palin ends up sinking the ticket, religious conservative leaders will be blamed. They'll lose face within the party and also among rank-and-file evangelicals who might reasonably have expected that their leaders checked out Palin before endorsing her.
Of course, if Palin turns out to be a great national hero, religious conservatives will look not only powerful but also sage. In short, just as John McCain took a big risk with this selection, religious leaders have gambled their credibility on the same bet.
http://www.stevenwaldman.com/
This was posted this morning, I think it is one of the few non-hysterical, competent views on the topic of Palin coming from the religious right:
Tuesday September 2, 2008
Sarah Palin: A Big Gamble for Religious Conservatives
It's been a long time since religious conservatives have been this elated about anyone. They raised Sarah Palin's choice immediately and rallied rapidly to her defense when news broke that her unmarried, teenage daughter is pregnant.
After a year's worth of stories about whether the religious right was "dead," they now seem to be flexing great muscle, helping to bring about the most antiabortion ticket running on the most antiabortion platform - ever.
But there's something else going on here, and it has at least one Christian leader worried. Mark DeMoss, former chief of staff to Jerry Falwell and now a leading Christian public relations executive, is hoping that Palin turns out well but has been shocked and worried by the reflexive Christian embrace of her.
"Too many evangelicals and religious conservative are too preoccupied with values and faith and pay no attention to competence. We don't apply this approach to anything else in life, including choosing a pastor." Imagine, he said, if a church was searching for a pastor and the leadership was brought a candidate with great values but little experience. "They've been a pastor for two years at a church with 150 people but he shares our values, so we hired him to be pastor of our 5,000 person church? It wouldn't happen! We don't say, 'He shares our values, so let's hire him.' That's absurd. Yet we apply that to choosing presidents. It blows my mind."
A Matter of Validation
Why does this happen? In part, it's about validation. Christians in America feel that national leaders and mainstream media hold them in contempt, so having a real evangelical in power tells the world, "we must not be as crazy as people think we are," DeMoss explains. He refers to the "Yellow Pages mentality" among some Christians: a reference to the idea that some churches publish directories of Christian-run businesses so that other Christians can only patronize them.
To be clear, DeMoss isn't saying Palin is unqualified. "The reality is, we don't know - and neither does McCain if he only met her once." The other Christian leaders who rallied around her didn't know much either. "I'm not hinting something's amiss but we don't know her and the people who gave her glowing response Friday didn't know. The euphoric rush to anoint without knowing -- it's a dangerous thing."
There's one more dynamic that may play out. The more Palin is criticized, the more Christians will come to her defense. That's especially true if critics mock her religion, but almost any attacks on her may enrage Christians. In 2004, one of the techniques the Bush campaign used to rally Christians was to portray him as a man of faith being mocked by liberals and the mainstream media. That just made him seem persecuted, and therefore more Christ-like.
A Comparison to Hillary Clinton
We've already seen that on the gender issue. McCain adviser Carly Fiorina said she was appalled by the Obama campaign's attempts to "belittle Gov. Sarah Palin's experience.... Because of Hillary Clinton 's historic run for the presidency and the treatment she received, American women are more highly tuned than ever to recognize and decry sexism in all its forms. They will not tolerate sexist treatment of Gov. Palin."
Watch soon for Christians to cast criticism of Palin as being anti-Christian.
There are several possible risks to evangelicals of having embraced her so rapidly. It's clear that appealing to religious conservatives was key factor for McCain, so if Palin ends up sinking the ticket, religious conservative leaders will be blamed. They'll lose face within the party and also among rank-and-file evangelicals who might reasonably have expected that their leaders checked out Palin before endorsing her.
Of course, if Palin turns out to be a great national hero, religious conservatives will look not only powerful but also sage. In short, just as John McCain took a big risk with this selection, religious leaders have gambled their credibility on the same bet.
http://www.stevenwaldman.com/
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