Parential Responsibility

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whirlcool

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 29, 2005
Messages
9,618
Location
Just North Of Houston, Texas
Last week there was a terrible accident in Florida where 5 teens driving a 500HP BMW M5 ran off the end of the runway where John Travolta lives killing all.
The driver had a terrible driving record with 4 tickets in the last year alone. They all were only 18. Is this the final quest in these parents wish to give their kids everything they want?
My question is, why in the world would a parent knowingly let a knowingly stupid kid drive such a machine? One story is in the link.....

http://www.ocala.com/article/20080126/BREAKING_NEWS/30775910/1053/BREAKING_NEWS
 
We had a tragedy a couple of years ago where 15 and 17 year old sisters were killed coming back from a party where they were [reportedly] drinking vodka. The parents apparently have a friend in the county sherrif's department, and he squelched the results of the autopsy.

First, where were the parents of the kid who hosted the party with under-aged kids there?

Then, what is a 17 year old doing driving late at night and with an under-aged passenger? Most teens are not mature enough these days to have the driving freedom many of us enjoyed 20, 30 (+?) years ago at age 16 and 17.

Lastly, why not let something possibly good come of a tragedy and educate more kids about drinking and/or driving after drinking? From the witnesses, everyone knows they were drinking anyway.

I dunno.

Chuck
 
Teenagers have been doing dangerous things with cars (and getting killed as well as killing others) since...well, since the invention of the car, I suppose.

Five kids from my high school didn't make it past graduation in various accidents---trying to outrun a train, driving drunk, and passing on a hill, to be specific.

On the other hand, today's teenagers are more likely to wear seatbelts than we were, back in the 1970s. I don't recall any of my friends (or me, for that matter) wearing seatbelts regularly.
 
parents needed to give them a speech on drinking and driving or maybe not even lend them the car! my god whats going on with people today? me and my friends NEVER NEVER NEVER get behind the wheel when we drink!!!! we stay home and party! maybe thats what more people need to do. it just disgusts me when i hear about this.
 
GRRRR...

Stuff like this makes me angry, and also makes me GLAD I will never be a parent.

There are so many things wrong with this its not funny. Not the least of which is why would you give an 18 year-old an $80,000 car to drive??
Color me heartless folks, its the parents fault. Had they taken the time to teach their little cherubs some discipline and responsibility they wouldn't be pushing up daisies now. Too many kids today have $$$ and *things* thrown their way, when a good swift kick in the A** is what they should probably get.
Just my 2 cents.
 
You're right...it is the parent's fault, unfortunately. I will never understand what idiot gives a reckless teenager a vehicle like that. If your kids haven't proven themselves, why would you reward them? Yeah, they can make mistakes, but Jesus, 4 tickets in one year....lose the license already.
 
But Andrew!!!

If he didn't give up the car, he wouldn't have been a *cool dude* like the other dads are.

heaven forbid a parent should actually say NO to a kid these days!!!
 
I have a theory about this.

When we were kids, if there was even a scratch or dent in the fender or door, it was (rightfully) considered a big deal.

But, with today's expensive vehicles, leases, and comprehensive insurance coverage, I hear the term "oh, the adjuster just totalled it out"...

The kids hear their parents say this to one another, with little sense of consequence...maybe even a little glee over the prospect of a newer, replacement vehicle!

I see it less as the continuation of kids and their need for speed, and more a reflection of our decadent culture that the parents are also swimming in...

If the parents expect to watch their kids behave, they have to behave themselves first, and set examples in their everyday lives.

So much of our society is fixated on "beating the system", but it's not until you bury a child when you realize you haven't beat anything. The "system" catches up with you, and beats you.
 
Mixed Feelings

Regarding all the comments about teenagers being more reckless today than we were...like hell they are. Every single generation has said that about the younger generations for thousands of years. Were it true, civilization would lie in ruins. I think we 'conveniently' forget our youth.
Come on folks, 'kids' today are no better or worse than we were.
Sheesh.
You'd think we were all old biddies gossiping over the fence about whose sheets are whitest.
 
When I was 17 I got one speeding ticket (7mph over in a 45 zone) and got grounded for a month.
I agree totally with you Jeff. Not only was it wrong to let a kid with a history of reckless driving get behind the wheel of such a powerful car, but just how responsible were his parents? When I was 18, my parents wanted to know where I was at all times. Did this kids parents ask that? Somehow I don't think so. They were probably thinking, "well, what kind of trouble could he get into that money won't fix?". I am positive they couldn't have even remotely tforseen of this kind of accident.
I guarantee you that no one put a gun to their head and forced them to race down that runway. Thats pretty high up on my "dumb shit to do" list. And there's also a HUGE difference in doing something "reckless" on your own then taking four others with you.
I think if we looked closer into this incident, we would find that this was probably a case where the parents wanted to be the kids "freind" instead of his parents.
Meanwhile, we are still stuck with Paris Hilton.
 
There are teens killed here pretty much every year. One of the girls killed in a car accident a couple years ago, her younger sister had a MySpace site with messages about drinking, and a picture of the deceased with a beer or other alcoholic beverage in-hand. There have been a couple cases over the course of years of parents getting nabbed for hosting parties, but it's rare and seems all mention of the incident suddenly drys up, so to speak. Typical pattern is there's an accident, people are shocked for a few weeks, then it's forgotten until next time.

23 years ago or so, there was a youngster employed here who was in a wreck (with some of his buds), had plastic surgery to correct some facial damage. A couple years later, he did it all over again. Now he's a principal at one of the schools, setting a fine example I'm sure.
 
It Starts Early!

I totally agree with everyone here who has said that these kids should be reined in much more than they are, but-

How ya gonna do that with kids who have been permitted to run amok in public from the time they were born? Restaurants are becoming an ordeal these days, and discount stores- forget it!

I'm beginning to wonder if our laws designed to combat child abuse haven't backfired to a certain extent. I would be the very last person in the world who would want to see a child abused, but once in a while a kid does something so outrageous that a single hearty open-handed smack to the derriere would seem to be the only way of getting his attention. I well remember those smacks- and I also remember how carefully I considered the matter the next time I was tempted to misbehave in the same fashion!
 
I wonder...

how the kid's parents are feeling now?

A couple of years ago here there was a horrific accident that killed a young man of 28 in a Porsche, and a mother and young child in a mini-van. The driver of the Porsche was driving on a ticket, having racked up something like 40 violations in the last 5 years.
The guy liked fast, he was speeding and lost control, taking out the mini-van.
What I can't figure out is why he was still driving? The guy's mother said she was relieved in a way, because she would no longer worry about her son's driving habits anymore.
Now she can tell her friends that her son's driving took two lives besides his own, and shattered two families.
She must be so proud.

I have more than once thanked the heavens above for being a gay man, if for no other reason than I will never be a father.

I was raised by good parents, taught respect and responsibility, and I got my ass kicked when I needed it. Discipline is a good thing. It builds character.
Parents today don't want to discipline or inhibit their kids in any way, because then their kids will "hate them"

I wonder how they are feeling now?
 
I don't know what's wrong with these kids today!

Back in the late 1990s when I started driving, things were a lot like they are today. Thus far, I have lived, but I have also been over-cautious. My folks actually took the time to teach me how to drive. A professional driving school is a great start, but it is not enough, not even close. Too many parents then, and now, rely on driving schools or drivers' ed classes to teach their kids how to drive. I think parents should ride with their kids and correct them when they do something wrong.
Racing a train is incredibly stupid. I'm a railroad buff and I know how dangerous a train can be. A coupler is like a steel fist. It usually impacts the car at about head-level with several hundred tons of force behind it. If you ever get hit by a train and live, at any speed, consider yourself the luckiest person on earth.
When I was attending the National Railway Historical Society's Railcamp '99, we were shown a film by Operation Lifesaver. In the film, 2 donated full-sized pickup trucks were fitted with crash test dummies and cameras. There were cameras all around the grade crossing where the collisions were staged, and on the locomotive too. The train used had 8 empty cars and 1 small locomotive, traveling at about 55 miles per hour. Needless to say, this was a very lightweight train, although it was quick. In one clip filmed at the moment of impact in the cab, you can hear the collision and see that the engineer's cup of coffee didn't even have a ripple in it. A train hitting a car is like a person kicking a ball of dryer lint. It's not even noticeable.
Racing other cars is also a bad idea. If kids want to do it, fine, let them. Just do it on a track, with proper safety equipment. Have the kids get part-time jobs and pay for some performance driving classes too. Lack of experience can't be fixed exclusively with training, but it doesn't hurt either.
Most importantly, teach kids to control their tempers behind the wheel. I know traffic is often frustrating. It's like that for everyone. Driving recklessly to compensate for unfortunate circumstances or poor planning is no excuse, especially when they can use their cell phones to stop and call ahead to say they will be late.
Parents should also serve as role models by driving defensively, especially when their kids are watching. Cursing at the other drivers, speeding, and driving like a maniac is not a good example.
I know that in my early days, if I had been caught speeding, I would have been in BIG trouble. The fine and court appearance would have been nothing compared to what would have happened at home. The same for any accident or damage that was my fault.
If I wanted to drive, I had to pay for all of my gas and half of my insurance (as long as I was in school/college and getting acceptable grades).
I never had an $80,000.00 car, and I still don't. I had a 12-year old Volvo (now 20 1/2). It was not my responsibility to maintain the car, it was a requirement. I had to keep it clean (inside and out), I had to pay attention to how it was running and tell my parents if it needed to go to the shop. I had to put air in the tires, change the oil, and always make my passengers wear seat belts.

Kids need to learn responsibility, and they need to learn it from their parents. Goodness knows they won't learn it from their friends, the TV, or the movies.

Why do car commercials always show the most irresponsible driving?

End of rant. I feel better now,
Dave
 
If I was to rant, my late brother and his wife raised their sons very poorly. None of the values, ideals, outlooks that my parents raised my brother and I with. My late parents were appalled at my nephew's poor behavior and lack of manners.
The older one was shooting up heroin at age 12. It was hushed up by my brother and his wife as they were in their denial.
At age 22, my older nephew brutally murdered both parents for money to pay off his drug dealer. He left the corpses in the house for 4 days, then came back and tried to set the house on fire in an attempt to cover up. However, with today's forensics, there was plenty of evidence to convict him. In spite of my sister in law's family trying to white wash everything, my nephew got 25 years in Attica prison in upstate New York. Only 25 years for 2 brutal murders.

Ross
 
As to any remorse, the only thing I heard my nephew say as he was being detoxed in the hospital was "Well, OJ got off"

Ross
 
Driver training-I think the professional training is FAR BETTER than what parents or relatives can give to a student or beginner driver.The beginner can then learn the parent or other relatives BAD habits.Driver training in school is good as well.that is what I started with-in fact my parents INSISTED that we be trained by someone else.I also paid for professional adult drivers ed-and that was the best money I spent.Being trained by a PROFESSIONAL driver makes a difference-the instructor I had in the course was a courier,tax driver,and a bus driver.These guys can give the student MANY useful tips.
I defintely feel it was irresponsible that the parents that owned the 500hp BMW let beginning teen agers try to drive it.The PARENTS should be held responsible in this case-just as bad as leaving a loaded gun in the kids reach!Wonder how fast those boys were going-That car looked like it went thru the crusher!
 
There I was at the mall, using the recycling "facilites" after the food court.

Father says to young son: "No that's OK, you dont need to wash your hands" right after they had come out of a stall.

You know, it's one thing to avoid teaching a child anything of importance, social graces, etc. It is quite another to thing to WORK ON and guide them into being the bottom of the barrel.
 
Well we know from the drivers post on the BMW forum that he had already had it up to 160mph and was asking how to get it to upshift smoother at those speeds.
Another thing, he was warned by another poster on that forum that the M5 can easily get away from you if you are not careful. He obviously didn't take the hint.

Ross, I am so sorry to hear about what happened within your family.

Another thing about kids today. In the job market kids these days are all about themselves. If they hire on with a company and later see something/told something they don't like they leave. Usually it's with a comment like "You're not the only game in town". It's becoming a real problem. I have read several articles about how companies are trying to deal with them and this newfound "attitude".
 
If I had teenagers, I might do as my Aunt Margaret did with her children. They lived in a residential part of Kansas City, with all the schools and shopping nearby. All the time she was raising kids, the family NEVER owned a car. Uncle Glenn took a bus to work and the kids knew the bus systems and could walk and bike everywhere. Margaret had a cart for groceries (she had to shop every day). Meanwhile, the family saved so much money without a car that they could pay their mortgage and some of the college debt free. Might be something to consider if you live in a city with all a family would need. The kids did have driver's training and licenses, the family just did not own a car.
 
Here's how I see it

While I do agree that our minds in our teens are not fully "mature," I think that teens have a feel of "invincibility," that all those speed crashes, it won't happen to us. Also, take into consideration of "The Fast and the Furious" and how it glamorized street racing, not to mention those ugly ass 2 foot neon spoilers on Civics.

Lindbergh Blvd in South St. Louis County is still to this day a street racing "drag strip" and I don't know how many times in high school I saw on the Channel 5 news reckless driving killing a student at Lindbergh, Oakville, Vianney, or Mehlville.
 
RESPECTFULLY

panthera wrote: "Regarding all the comments about teenagers being more reckless today than we were...like hell they are. Every single generation has said that about the younger generations for thousands of years. Were it true, civilization would lie in ruins. I think we 'conveniently' forget our youth. Come on folks, 'kids' today are no better or worse than we were. Sheesh."

Sorry Panthera, and no disrespect intended, but it's attitudes like this that foster the way things are today. In plain and simple English, that's B**LS**T. When the hell did we ever worry about having a fellow student bring a F***ING gun to school to blow us away? Did you have metal detectors at your doors or security guards monitoring your halls???? If you're over 30, I doubt it.

The degree to which we got away with stuff is nowhere near what's happening today. It's escalated exponentially (pushing a kid around, then, vs. blowing him away, now). I see high school kids every school day, and I thank God I'm not raising a kid today. Parents taking the easy way out by appeasing kids are in the majority. Parents giving a "slap on the hand" ("Mary, you know that's wrong, don't you? Well good. Don't do it again. Good girl.") and not giving consequences are in the majority. Parents not spending enough time with their kids (training them, instilling values) are in the majority.

I think you get what I mean. Many parents have taken the easy way out at the expense of their kids, and every person their kids come into contact with, including innocent motorists on the same road with these kids. There's always someone else to blame... guidance counselors, TV, a "bad kid" at school, et cetera ad nauseum. Just for the three I noted, in order, meet with the guidance counselor and find out what's going on (you might have to miss a little work, but this is YOUR KID), monitor what they watch on TV (manually or via V-chip), and forbid them (and MEAN IT) from hanging around with that "bad kid."

Damnit. Take responsibility for YOUR kids. You had them, and they're YOU'RE responsibility. Ground 'em. Take away their cell phones or IPods. Make them stay in their rooms studying (ONLY after removing the power packs from the laptop, game system and TV).

And if any answer includes, "Well, I can't take off time from work because we have to pay the bills," do what you need to do to lower the bills:

-nix movie channel packages on cable

-buy good-looking but [gasp] non-designer clothes

-cut the text plans and unlimited calls plans from the kid's cell phones [they pay for any overages]

-Don't buy a wide-screen LCD or Plasma TV

-have them work for allowances (you don't have to pay a service to do the work) and get part-time jobs when able

-MOVE INTO A HOUSE YOU CAN ACTUALLY AFFORD

This is a generation of some of the most self-centered, selfish, rude, disrespectful, ENTITLED children and young adults that we've ever seen. Every child is raised that they are entitled to be a winner. This has fostered a junior society of whiners! Remember when you had to try out for a teams to make it? And if you weren't good, you didn't play? Tell us what happens now, parents of the 2000's! Everyone gets to play. Everyone gets a trophy or certificate for something. What it tells kids is that there are no losers and everyone's a winner! Just wait until they get into the real world.

I gotta get off the soapbox... I'm getting a nosebleed. Probably where the aneurism is coming from!

Chuck
 
WHOA!!!

Chuck man YOU GO BOY!!!

You said alot of what I feel.
And you're right too.

I graduated high school in 1982. Stuff like Columnbine was not even comprehensible back then.
Unthinkable.
I don't remember any classmates having mega expensive cars either. I remember paying $1800 for a 1976 Mercury Montego in the fall of 1981. The car was 5 years old, and it felt like I had just gotten a Mercedes!

Your comment about people not being responsible today is dead on. Nobody wants to take ownership for their actions, unless of course it will bring them glory. If its bad, forget it, someone else's fault.
I fear its only going to get worse.
 
Hell....

My first car was a 12 year old, beat up Opel station wagon with no air conditioning, radio or carpets. I had to get a car loan (dad co-signed) with $50 a month payments AND......the kicker is that my family OWNED THE CAR DEALERSHIP!!!

My paernts believed in learning the harsh realities of the world and earning my own!!! THANK YOU mom and dad!!!

Rich
 
Same here...

I still remember the date! February 20, 1981---the day I got my drivers license.
My parent's cars at the time were a 1978 4-door Buick Electra Park Avenue(mom's car) and my dad's car was a 2-door 1980 Buick Regal.
Mom's car was always off limits, that was the *good* car for trips and church, and mom's once a week trip to the beauty shop and grocery store.
Dad's car was not all that available either. I was told pretty much from day one that if I wanted to drive I had to buy my own car and pay for my own insurance. So I did.
I had been working for over two years prior to driving. I had the $$$ saved to buy the car, and for the insurance...and for all the repairs that car needed too!!

Thanks to my parents too!
 
To use the car, I had to pay the difference in the insurance, and make sure I contrubuted to the gas. I also had to do oil changes and help with the other upkeep with training from my father.

R-E-S-P-O-N-S-I-B-I-L-I-T-Y!!!

Chuck
 
Perc:

"The degree to which we got away with stuff is nowhere near what's happening today. It's escalated exponentially (pushing a kid around, then, vs. blowing him away, now)."

I think you just said it all.

At some point, I think we're going to need a "Parental Responsibility Act". Something to the effect of, "You had 'em- you're responsible for what they do until they're of age."

If and when we ever get such laws, I will have no sympathy whatsoever for any parent who loses their job, house, savings or personal liberty over the actions of a kid who should have been watched closely and raised properly, but wasn't. When things reach the point of teens beating up homeless people for sport- and they have reached that point- it's time for laws that put the responsibility where it really lies- with parents who put a child into the world, without thinking through the responsibilities and issues that go with raising one successfully.

Kids have always been unruly, rebellious, and heedless- I was myself. But dangerous is a new twist.
 
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