Pastor Haggard: Part II

Automatic Washer - The world's coolest Washing Machines, Dryers and Dishwashers

Help Support AutomaticWasher.org:

Makes me wonder how many more of the vehemently opposed individuals have sekeletons rattling around. I used the same cover-up too, one of many.
 
To say this is embarrassing is the understatement of the year!
Oh My! I would not want to be in his position right now. Did he think that he wouldn't be caught some day?
I think that a persons sexual orientation is their own business and nobody elses. But a rent boy and a wife! Man, what a mess! The fact that he is a religious figure makes it just that much worse.
 
Society and desire to achieve......?

I don't even know, i guess i mean my heart bleeds for the wife, the rage she must feel and the embarrassment of his children. HE chose to live the lie, she is betrayed and his kids will go through hell on earth, you all know how cruel kids can be at times. If the man is gay why didnt he just do the right thing..............not get married in the first place thats the lie i am referring too. No need to climb to achievement on any anti-gay platform. I beleive in my heart he loves those kids.. Most gay dads do a wonderful job. this is just a horrible mess. Not condoning this but earlier choices in his life, especially his job related duties for the FAR RIGHT did him in, we may have had a laugh, but that family has some serious pain and issues to work through.
 
my thoughts

I was at the local Wendy's yesterday after church...Ted was a topic of conversation. Seems the group I was with (Methodist) agreed that It's tempting to say "ha..ha..ha" but then it's not right to thrive on someone's misfourtunes; also concerns were for his wife and children...I find it hard to belive the wife did'nt at least suspect. But I hate to think what kinds of teasing the children will endure at school; I fear it will be even worse on them than just the average run of the mill child with a gay parent(s). The real pisser to this story is..people that dont attend church often justify it by saying churches and regilion are just a bunch of hipocrits...in view of what Ted did that just reinforces their feelings. I respect the consertivies and thier opions..however I wish they would'nt try to impose them on me!!!
 
When someone points their finger at a group of people and call them dirty, sinful and the object of G-d's wrath, and then close the door and indulge themselves in what they profess to hate, they deserve the hottest hell-fire imaginable. Period. I have all the sympathy in the world for his children and his wife but I hope his burning hate and lies keep him awake in turmoil every night. A leader of the people SHOULD be a beacon of hope, kindness and love. His followers, all 30 million of them, will hopefully do some deep, personal reflection on the power of hate and perhaps will seek out the real truth of what their savior taught in the bible. But that may be too much to hope for.
 
The guy is human...

I kinda feel sorry for him in a way, namely I can't imagine the inner, emotional turmoil this guy dealt with every day of his life.
So sad too that he was conditioned as such that he could not be confortable in his own skin.
The scariest part of this story is he's been turned over to the care of James Dobson???
Yeah right like they are going to be able to "cure" him??
I think this guy is just in for more hurt and pain.
I do feel for the wife and kids though. Having a couple of friends who were married w/kids and are now divorced and out, they do not have it easy either.
It will be interesting to see how this all plays itself out. The story is far from over thats for sure!
 
I guess we'll just have to wait for his book to come out followed by the made for tv movie. Please please please don't get Nancy Grace involved, leave her to what she does best, celebrity and photogenic white child abuse and murders.
 
I feel sorry for the children, but not for Haggard or his wife.
They get what they deserve for preaching hatred and bigotry. Under the care of James Dobson? Well, then Haggard will be getting his just reward.
 
A Big Thank You goes out to Mike Jones

"In his letter, Haggard asked the congregation to forgive his accuser, who has been widely quoted as saying he came forward because he was angered by what he perceived as the pastor's hypocrisy on same-sex marriage."

Well isn't that rich, it just goes to show exactly how these people think! One really has to just roll one's eyes when we read such arragance and stupidity like that. The truth of the matter is Mike Jones is a hero, the guy who needs forgivness big time is Haggard. Mike did all of us a huge favor and we should be greatful to him.

As for his wife and children I absolutely do feel bad for them, although I not concerned if his kids get teased and picked on for their fathers behavior, because it would be minor compared to the way a gay child is treated throughout his or her entire childhood. Most of us remember what that was like as it was horrible. I can only hope that things are better for gay kids today than they were 30 years ago, I suspect that they are.
 
These are things that I just don't understand. My sisters brother in law after 12 years of marriage and three kids woke up one morning to tell his wife that he's gay and he is running off with a drag queen. That happened 10 years ago and most of the family is still in deep denial. Of course he is one of those you never would guess. From what I understand most people realize that they are gay well before marriage age. If this is true, why don't they know that marriage to a woman will never work for them?
But it just goes to show you that you can walk the walk and talk the talk, but you never really know what goes on in the minds of men!
 
It's too bad

Of course we all knew this.

I wish Haggard could see clear to state that he is a child of God and this is the way God made him. In my opinion, the major religions always sought ways to keep the birth rate up by encouraging everyone, even those who probably shouldn't reporduce, to marry.

Let's show our compassion, and welcome him.

Martin
 
Sad, and angry here

Sad for his children, and for his wife. In that order.

I am angry about the people who will use this as an anti-Christian screed.

Not all Christian denominiations are like this one. My own denomination, the United Church of Christ, has ordained openly gay non-celibate ministers starting in 1972! (If it helps figure out who we are, we're the "God Is Still Speaking" people.)

I am out in my congregation, and we have many, many lesbian families.

Lawrence/Maytagbear

Link is to denomination website.

http://ucc.org
 
When I was younger and worked front-line positions in hotels, I got hit on by quite a few married men. I don't condone adultery, of course, and I was always concerned for the wife, who in all likelihood didn't know her husband was screwing around on her.

But I felt bad for the guy too - it must be terrible to be so conflicted that you have to get your jollies by propositioning hotel employees. I suppose they thought they were being discreeet, but the joke was on them: everytime anyone got hit on, you always told you co-workers and supervisor, so that people would know to look out for the letch.

In this instance, I really feel for his wife. Pastor's wives and pastor's kids are always held to a higher standard anyway, and scandal like this makes it worse. A particularly moronic pastor here in Seattle - another prominent homophobe, of course - has already tried to blame it on how Haggard's wife "let herself go".
 
Still I'm sure there'll be some twisting this incident to futher their cause by blaming it on the "gay agenda" or some such, when in fact it is gay repression that causes some gay people to resort to sham marriages in the first place in order to fit in or be accepted. Back in the early 70's I remember going to someones party (all gay) and lo and behold there was one of my HS classmates father. Then at another both the parents of another classmate. Neither time did those parents recognize me otherwise they'd probably have been worried I might spill the beans or something. Not likely, I was still in the closet as well. Besides it's none of my business.
 
The scary thing to me.........

is not so much that he got in the pulpit and preached hate, BUT that he had 14000 people that were willing to listen to his message of hate. And he was also a national leader of 30 million, THAT is scary.
 
I once went to an interview for a company, that I did end up working for, and on the 3rd interview, I had to speak with the director of the company. He was young, very fit, goodlooking. As soon as I layed eyes on him, I thought to myself "Well, If he isn't as gay as a three dollar bill." He had pictures in his office of his wife and kids. So, I just thought my gaydar was on the fritz. As I worked at the company and begain to climb the corporate ladder and had more, and more contact with him, I became more and more certain that he was gay. When I became supervisor, It was relaid to us not to distrub his as much as possible as he just filed for divorce and was terribly distraught. Once the divorce was final, the whole story came out as to what really happend. He had come from a family that was very wealthy and was "expected to marry a family of equal status and produce children". And if he did not, then his life would be distroyed. So, he did. He had married and produced children and lived the life that he was expected to. Once his Father had passed away, (his mother had died about the time I started with the company)he filed for the divorce, got himself a boyfriend and moved to a luxury condo on the beach.

Am I saying that I condone what Harrgard has done?? ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!. However, we also don't know the entire, exact story. I am just as angry and sad as many of you are. Yes, Like many of you, growing up gay was not a walk in the rose garden, and was very painful, and stressful. However, We as a gay community, stress, and preach, equality, and want people to except who and what we are. Yet, within the gay comminity we discriminate against ourselves by judging each other on what part of town we lived in, the clothes we wear, and what we drive, and how our bodies look to each other, and how much money we make.

I agree that Haggard preached his hate and distain for the gay community and then came off the pulpit and did the complete opposite of what he just preached against. That is just not right. Obviously, there is some real disfuction there. There are still people out there that truly believe that being gay is a choice and you can choose to change and be straight. Those are the people that I feel most sorry for. These are also the people at say "they have found Jesus and are re-born". They should be very careful about using that statement, because if it were true they wouldn't be judging anyone.

Everyone has skeletons in their clossets, or atleast has made decisions that they are not proud of and don't discuss. People enter into bad relationships and marriages or "arrangments" of convinence each and everyday. And yes, eventually they all end and people get hurt. They hypocrocy of telling people that something is bad, give me money so I can continue to show you it is bad, then do the opposite is totally ill-reprehisible. People have gone to prison for that,and I think, and correct me if i'm wrong here, that's called fraud.

It is a total shame that he commited this fraud to his wife and children. The worst fraud is what he committed to the "general public" if you will, and that they bought into it.
 
Crimen nefandum, the unmentionable sin

Allen,

It's the pressure of the family, the friends, the church community, the society in general etc. etc. that give a lot of gays the feeling that they have no choice but to get into a marriage that they never would get into if they followed their feelings. The feelings that you can not speak about. The "crimen nefandum" or the unmentionable sin. Because of this, this pressure is bigger than you perhaps never will be able to understand. I was active in the gay movement in the 80's and this happened often. Very often. A while ago in another thread I told about a gay man who was forced into a marriage and who committed suicide in the end because he didn't see a way out. His wife discovered it and I had a long talk with her. Since then I think I understand how it works, although I have never been in this position.

I feel sorry for Haggard because he probably felt he was forced into a marriage. I think I know how he must have felt. I don't feel sorry for the consequenses he has to face now, I think he had a choice in what he preached against gays.

Moral of the story: The hormones are always stronger than the sermon. So watch out what you preach.
 
Remember that they always stress that there is no such thing as a gay identity, no such thing as "gay".

They accept male-female attraction as the only possible, natural way....and only within the bounds of matrimony.

That's the difference between how we see ourselves, and how they see themselves, and how they have no validation. Homosexuality is placed on an equivalent level as bestiality and pedophilia.

This is why I've always appreciated Tammy Faye Meissner's support of the community. To come out of a milieu of that kind of brainwashing, and to still be able to express warmth and compassion, leads me to believe she is a person of character, at least.

She is apparently not well these days, but I indeed hope she contacts Haggard and is able to help him.

I usually am not in favor of outing people because of the danger aspect, but in this case, I believe Jones recognized that Haggard and his movement were a far greater danger to the community, and realized there was a moral imperative to disclosing.

(But the cynical side of me says, one of Haggard's enemies got to him first, with a big payoff....)
 
Sex below the Bibile belt

I was so ignorant and isolated as a child, I was an adult, in college, before I knew what queer meant or that homosexuality was a lifestyle. I participated in volumes of gay sex in my adolescence, but thought was just a means of blowing off steam before marriage.
Living in the midwest and south and/or participating in ANY fundamental church in those states afforded the opportunity to have all the gay sex you could fit into your schedule. Mostly married and almost all christian.
Imagine my surprise to arrive in the open and progressive city of Seattle and learn it's easier to borrow $1,000.00 than to find someone willing to have sex.
All those 52 years, before I came out, I was a Baptist church pianist. I avoided any platform where I was a teacher, speaker or any opportunity where my "secret" could possible bring discredit to God, whom I loved sincerely.
I was so stinking sanctimonious and deeply resentled anyone who got to act out sexually because I was being so good and pure, suffering on my own cross.
I came out first, then divorced and then began to live a gay lifestyle. Does that make the pain and disappointment any easier for my wife? No. At least she and my four children weren't forced to stand and put a plastic smile on their face while I lied through my hair filled teeth, denying my indescretions.
I would have paid any price to flipp a switch and make the marriage work. Straight, coloring and living inside the lines is easier and has the blessing and support of the community and family.
God never intended or asked me to NOT be homosexual. I am tasked to be honest, strive to live fully conscious of the good and to cherish the life I was created for. I am the Beloved Child of God in whom He is well pleased.
History has demonstrated over and over, God does not bless dishonesty. Sooner or later Truth prevails and it is Truth that sets us all free.
I am sickened by what the actions of men like Haggard do, to tarnish the Sweetness and joy of living, supported and accepted by a loving Father God.
Kelly
 
sick...

I hate the fact that this guy refers to his "dark side" C'mon man you are human and a sinner just like everyone else!
Nobody is perfect.
I see the guy's fear though... and thats what promotes all the hate, Fear of what you don't understand.
 
I remember a story where a prominent gay minister went with others to ask at-the-time President Carter about the whole gays-in-the-military thing.

Carter looked disturbed, and the ministers asked him why.

He said the main problem he could see would be that the soldiers would have to take an oath saying they were being truthful....and what about all his big-time officers and generals who WERE actually gay that had said they were straight? That would make them liars!

This is NOT a political post about Carter or anyone else!

I'm just saying, the way people thought, and their thought processes were a hell of a lot more logical before evangelical Christian/fanatical Catholic/Orthodox Judaism, etc. fundamentalism began to set all the guidelines in this country.

It really IS how theocratic elements ruin lives, and how several generations of gay men, lesbians, and those who love us have allowed our faith traditions to be hijacked.
 
I suppose I came of age on the cusp of the gay rights movement, so it was different for me, but I knew what side my bread was buttered on fairly early. I had girlfriends, a few that I could easily have married, but in the end I couldn't do it. I cared for them too much to lie to them, and have them invest their life in something that would be a sham.

When I was still in my parent's sphere of influence I knew that coming out would mean being put into some sort of Catholic mental health program, so I kept my trap shut until I got on my own. I love my parents, and anything they would have done would have been out of love for me, but that would have been a disaster. I have a friend who went that route, and it wasn't pretty.
 
I was lucky because I grew up in New York.

I was fourteen in 1979, but looked about five years older and had absolutely no problem gaining admittance to bars, clubs, etc. New York was a lot more fun (and much more out of control) at the time, so I got to at least feel like I was a part of something bigger then myself (no pun intended)....

In addition, I was completely unsupervised, since my mother worked nights.

I agree with Unimatic that it's easier to be an openly gay kid (in New York or a big metro area, anyway) these days. When I was young, though, there definitely was a certain "dark side" aspect I guess I could have internalized, a feeling that the subway linked two very seperate and distinct worlds...

I actually believe kids don't get into half as much trouble as I did when I was their age, partially because of the aftereffects of the epidemic, partially because people are just a lot more conservative these days.
 
I have to agree with mostly everything that was said here. As this story keeps unfolding and it will get more sordid as time goes on. He will not be the last one that this happens to I am sure. These holyer than thou people who cast stones at others should really consider installing Pexiglass in their own houses. Plus when someone like Haggard preaches the hate of the GLBT community the way they do then go off and have sex or whatever with a male escort then they get what comes to them.
Like the old addage what comes go around comes around and it will bite ya in the backside every time.
As a PTC..part time Catholic...and living part time in Massachusetts I get to hear the crap that the bishops want the priests tell their parishioners about Gay marriage and how we shouldnt have the same rights as straights...it makes me think that they shouldnt say anything since Father O'Fondlin and Monseigner Molesta reared thier ugly heads not long ago. But some do not learn.I also think that if they get involved with politics then maybe they should be paying taxes like the rest of us.
 
I think churches should have to pay their taxes like anyone else. There is no reason why they should be exempt from taxes.
I hope that will be changed soon. They sure are political from their bully pulpits.
 
Pastor Haggard

I also must agree with much of what has been written on this thread.

A long time United Methodist here, I have held about every office, church organist, direct the Sunday School Christmas programs, you name it I have probably done it. However, I wonder if I would be treated with the same respect if I were to be open about being gay. It bothers me a great deal to feel like I have to live in a bubble and also makes me feel like the love of the Christ I serve is not in the people that serve Him.

We are created by God to be a specific and wonderful individual. So what makes people like Dobson and other conservative church leaders (and I use the term loosly) think they can take a man like Pastor Haggard and make him be any different that what his creator made him to be.

I do feel sorry for his wife and children and all their extended families. Pastor Haggard will remain in the center of my prayers as well. Mike Jones bringing this to the front of the Church is also a good thing, unfortunatly, the church will not realize they are the ones who need the most love and care. Like I said earlier, I am not sure I would be viewed as the same person if I were to stand in the pulpit and let them know I am Gay!
 
Back
Top