Wilkinson's
Not only that, you can win a mini too if you buy Surf or Persil from Wilkinsons
.
Jon
Not only that, you can win a mini too if you buy Surf or Persil from Wilkinsons
.Jon
Persil S&M UK /Ireland - Loving it!
- Thread starter MrX
- Start date
Help Support :
Just used the bio small and mighty on a load of towels, and have had abysmal rinsing results! Not had a problem rinsing with the colour version though...
Anybody else noticed the same?
Jon
Anybody else noticed the same?
Jon
samsungfl
Well-known member
I've noticed this too Jon, it seems to rinse out very well with normal laundry but tends to be a bit difficult on towels which i thought was odd LOL! I agree with you i think the bio S&M is very good on normal,everyday washing but I wasnt very impressed when i used it on whites! Though its a very good eco friendly creation i think 
Richard
Richard
liberator1509
Well-known member
spoodle - bleach and enzymes in liquids
You won't find bleach in UK liquid detergents - my brother in law works for Unilever, and he explained the science to me in detail - apparently a storage issue - hard to stop the bleach separating from the detergent it seems.
The bio/non-bio thing dates back to, as one might only expect, market forces in the late 70s and early 80s. Until the 80s, Persil was a non-bio powder (when there was only one variant), with Ariel being the bio option (the latter of course a Proctor and Gamble product). These were of course high suds powders that, along with OMO, Surf (lever), Tide and Daz (P&G), were popular with twintub users - Persil Automatic (again non-bio) and Bold (P&G) dominated the more limited front-loader market at the time.
In the 80s as front loaders began to supersede twintubs, most of the former twintub powders were launched in automatic form - so Surf Automatic, Ariel Automatic (Bio) and Daz Automatic were launched - OMO and Tide disappeared from the UK market. Lever realised that they were losing market cover to Ariel Automatic, and introduced 'New-System' Persil Automatic - a bio lower temperature powder - this was launched concurrently with the Hotpoint New Generation L.E. range - the first range designed to operate at lower temperatures. This was a success and help Lever regain dominance in the market.
Later in the 80s Lever introduced some trial brands - some people might remember Radion (appeared in about 1989 and was very short-lived - supposedly good at de-odorising), and Wisk liquid (as a trial for market acceptance of liquids - P&G had launched Ariel liquid). Lever had one big flop with Persil Power - launched as a rival to Ariel Ultra - the first super-compact powders. Persil Power was designed as an occasional use powder, but wasn't adopted as such and disappeared quickly following allegations that it caused colour loss and even fabric decay! It was quietly dropped...
The late 90s saw the marketing people coming in with an attempt to diversify the market - Persil Non-Bio was pushed as the 'traditional' powder (capitalising on a small but significant number of reported allergies to certain powders), Persil Bio (or any of its other names), with Colour (Bleach free) and other variants appearing in traditional powder, liquid and compact powder form. P&G followed suit with various versions of Ariel - notable that P&G kept the Fairy brand alive as a 'gentle' powder, whereas Lever rely on Persil non-bio. Surf was repositioned as a fragranced powder (competing with Bold), but at economy price to match Daz - Surf is marketed as OMO and ALL in various parts of the world. Persil is a Lever brand only in the British Isles and a few other areas - the German firm Henkel actually on the name, and market their own product as Persil in most of Europe.
Most US detergents tend not to include bleach (hence liquid bleach is a popular additive), whereas most UK powders (not liquids of course) include bleach - except colour powder. Additives are now popular - with Vanish being particularly popular - you may recall a large push on 'safe' bleaches over here a few years ago - ACE and the like (awfully cheesy add for ACE...), but one-scoop-in-the-wash powders seem more popular.
You won't find bleach in UK liquid detergents - my brother in law works for Unilever, and he explained the science to me in detail - apparently a storage issue - hard to stop the bleach separating from the detergent it seems.
The bio/non-bio thing dates back to, as one might only expect, market forces in the late 70s and early 80s. Until the 80s, Persil was a non-bio powder (when there was only one variant), with Ariel being the bio option (the latter of course a Proctor and Gamble product). These were of course high suds powders that, along with OMO, Surf (lever), Tide and Daz (P&G), were popular with twintub users - Persil Automatic (again non-bio) and Bold (P&G) dominated the more limited front-loader market at the time.
In the 80s as front loaders began to supersede twintubs, most of the former twintub powders were launched in automatic form - so Surf Automatic, Ariel Automatic (Bio) and Daz Automatic were launched - OMO and Tide disappeared from the UK market. Lever realised that they were losing market cover to Ariel Automatic, and introduced 'New-System' Persil Automatic - a bio lower temperature powder - this was launched concurrently with the Hotpoint New Generation L.E. range - the first range designed to operate at lower temperatures. This was a success and help Lever regain dominance in the market.
Later in the 80s Lever introduced some trial brands - some people might remember Radion (appeared in about 1989 and was very short-lived - supposedly good at de-odorising), and Wisk liquid (as a trial for market acceptance of liquids - P&G had launched Ariel liquid). Lever had one big flop with Persil Power - launched as a rival to Ariel Ultra - the first super-compact powders. Persil Power was designed as an occasional use powder, but wasn't adopted as such and disappeared quickly following allegations that it caused colour loss and even fabric decay! It was quietly dropped...
The late 90s saw the marketing people coming in with an attempt to diversify the market - Persil Non-Bio was pushed as the 'traditional' powder (capitalising on a small but significant number of reported allergies to certain powders), Persil Bio (or any of its other names), with Colour (Bleach free) and other variants appearing in traditional powder, liquid and compact powder form. P&G followed suit with various versions of Ariel - notable that P&G kept the Fairy brand alive as a 'gentle' powder, whereas Lever rely on Persil non-bio. Surf was repositioned as a fragranced powder (competing with Bold), but at economy price to match Daz - Surf is marketed as OMO and ALL in various parts of the world. Persil is a Lever brand only in the British Isles and a few other areas - the German firm Henkel actually on the name, and market their own product as Persil in most of Europe.
Most US detergents tend not to include bleach (hence liquid bleach is a popular additive), whereas most UK powders (not liquids of course) include bleach - except colour powder. Additives are now popular - with Vanish being particularly popular - you may recall a large push on 'safe' bleaches over here a few years ago - ACE and the like (awfully cheesy add for ACE...), but one-scoop-in-the-wash powders seem more popular.
liberator1509
Well-known member
and we get sucked in...
I just looked at the detergent collection beside the washer - we currently have the following in stock:
Persil Handwash (which I love - US readers - get a friend touring the UK to bring some back for your agitator top-loaders while you can - amazing scent!)
Persil non-bio powder
Persil colour Liquid
Ariel colour
Surf Small and Mighty (two flavours...)
Vanish Liquid Bleach
Vanish oxy-clean powder...
and that is without getting into the fabric conditioner debate (Sainsbury's Blue Linen is my favourite - great for line dried whites!)
Back in the 70s my mum used one box a week of "Square Deal" Surf for all her laundry - progress eh?
I just looked at the detergent collection beside the washer - we currently have the following in stock:
Persil Handwash (which I love - US readers - get a friend touring the UK to bring some back for your agitator top-loaders while you can - amazing scent!)
Persil non-bio powder
Persil colour Liquid
Ariel colour
Surf Small and Mighty (two flavours...)
Vanish Liquid Bleach
Vanish oxy-clean powder...
and that is without getting into the fabric conditioner debate (Sainsbury's Blue Linen is my favourite - great for line dried whites!)
Back in the 70s my mum used one box a week of "Square Deal" Surf for all her laundry - progress eh?
Omo isn't Surf
Omo is UK/Ireland Persil. It's not Surf, it's smells very similar to Unilever Persil and is usually positioned as a premium detergent, not a budget one like Surf.
Unilever also own the Persil™ in France and New Zealand.
In France, Persil™ appears to be marketed as a more natural brand with various all natural ingredients.
Unilever's main detergent brand in France is Skip™ which is identically branded and bottled to UK/Ireland Persil. Including Skip petit et puissant (Small and Mighty)
In NZ Persil is the same as Australian OMO
Omo is UK/Ireland Persil. It's not Surf, it's smells very similar to Unilever Persil and is usually positioned as a premium detergent, not a budget one like Surf.
Unilever also own the Persil™ in France and New Zealand.
In France, Persil™ appears to be marketed as a more natural brand with various all natural ingredients.
Unilever's main detergent brand in France is Skip™ which is identically branded and bottled to UK/Ireland Persil. Including Skip petit et puissant (Small and Mighty)
In NZ Persil is the same as Australian OMO
spoodles
Well-known member
liberator1509 - thanks for that detailed info! Persil non-bio's "the original non-bio" tag line makes a lot more sense now! I always thought it was a new-ish (early 80s) invention!
It would seem that the non-bio "craze" stems directly from Persil and P&G etc. just copied their idea.
I still don't get the difference between US & UK sensitive detergents. If enzymes are the cause of allergic and sensitive skin reactions, etc, then why are they included in US sensitive detergents?
I vaguely remember Tide being available in the UK, but had no idea that we also had Wisk liquid too. I wonder why Unilever didn't just launch liquids with Persil from the outset?
It would seem that the non-bio "craze" stems directly from Persil and P&G etc. just copied their idea.
I still don't get the difference between US & UK sensitive detergents. If enzymes are the cause of allergic and sensitive skin reactions, etc, then why are they included in US sensitive detergents?
I vaguely remember Tide being available in the UK, but had no idea that we also had Wisk liquid too. I wonder why Unilever didn't just launch liquids with Persil from the outset?
spoodles
Well-known member
OMO is Surf .... sometimes!
mrx - in France OMO is Surf too - note the near identical packaging to Surf Small & Mighty.
In June or July UK Surf will be re-launched with "essential oils" added to it as they have with OMO in France - huiles essentielles!
mrx - in France OMO is Surf too - note the near identical packaging to Surf Small & Mighty.
In June or July UK Surf will be re-launched with "essential oils" added to it as they have with OMO in France - huiles essentielles!
Yes, it is not easy possible to add "bleach", by which we mean
hydrogen peroxide to liquid laundry detergents. The solutions tend not to be stable for long term storage/shelf life, an or a host of other problems. IIRC on this side of the pond what one sees are liquid detergents with "bleach alternatives",which as one has often explained before means nothing more than heavy doses of optical brightening agents, and or stronger soil suspension agents. These make white and colourfast laundry appear whiter and brighter giving the effect of bleaches, supposedly.
If one wishes to continue using liquid detergents for the soft hand they give to laundry, but wants the stain removal power of oxygen type bleaches without resorting to the packaged powders (which are usually mixtures of sodium perborate or percarbonate and washing soda, and other additives), simply use liquid hydrogen peroxide sold at chemists. One half cup per wash load should work fine, but one can add more if needed. All oxygen bleaches break down into hydrogen peroxide when they come in contact with water, that is what does the bleaching. Perborate and percarbonate oxygen bleaches are simply hydrogen peroxide in powdered form,if you like.
There are many versions of liquid oxygen bleach on the market, some are pure peroxide, others contain additives such as surfactants, enzymes and the lot. Most all are around the same 5%-10% strength as the chemist variety. Commercial laundries have access to food grade hydrogen peroxide which can be 35% or higher, but that is VERY serious and dangerous stuff. It cannot be shipped without hazzard precautions and even then it requires lots of paperwork. Many shippers want nothing to do with it as it is explosive.
By the way, that hydrogen peroxide one finds at the chemists works a treat for pre-treating stains such as blood, wine and other tannin based stains. Simply pour on, wait a minute then launder. DO NOT ALLOW HYDROGEN PEROXIDE TO DRY ON TO LAUNDRY! It will eat away at most textiles and you'll be left with nice holes.
L.
hydrogen peroxide to liquid laundry detergents. The solutions tend not to be stable for long term storage/shelf life, an or a host of other problems. IIRC on this side of the pond what one sees are liquid detergents with "bleach alternatives",which as one has often explained before means nothing more than heavy doses of optical brightening agents, and or stronger soil suspension agents. These make white and colourfast laundry appear whiter and brighter giving the effect of bleaches, supposedly.
If one wishes to continue using liquid detergents for the soft hand they give to laundry, but wants the stain removal power of oxygen type bleaches without resorting to the packaged powders (which are usually mixtures of sodium perborate or percarbonate and washing soda, and other additives), simply use liquid hydrogen peroxide sold at chemists. One half cup per wash load should work fine, but one can add more if needed. All oxygen bleaches break down into hydrogen peroxide when they come in contact with water, that is what does the bleaching. Perborate and percarbonate oxygen bleaches are simply hydrogen peroxide in powdered form,if you like.
There are many versions of liquid oxygen bleach on the market, some are pure peroxide, others contain additives such as surfactants, enzymes and the lot. Most all are around the same 5%-10% strength as the chemist variety. Commercial laundries have access to food grade hydrogen peroxide which can be 35% or higher, but that is VERY serious and dangerous stuff. It cannot be shipped without hazzard precautions and even then it requires lots of paperwork. Many shippers want nothing to do with it as it is explosive.
By the way, that hydrogen peroxide one finds at the chemists works a treat for pre-treating stains such as blood, wine and other tannin based stains. Simply pour on, wait a minute then launder. DO NOT ALLOW HYDROGEN PEROXIDE TO DRY ON TO LAUNDRY! It will eat away at most textiles and you'll be left with nice holes.
L.
Liquid Laundry Detergents
Are pretty much taking over everywhere, and not without some good reasons.
Most persons simply do not get laundry so soiled as say years ago when many pepople were engaged heavy work and or wore clothing for several wearings. Today's laundry is more likely soiled by body soils/oils, food stains, and perhaps the odd ink or some such. For all of these stains a good liquid laundry detergent with TOL surfactants and enzymes will work very well, and has the advantage of being near neutral pH. The old powdered laundry detergent formulas with heavy doses of caustics such as washing soda, borax, phosphates, and so forth, worked mainly by mechanical action and swelling textile fibers to release soils. Today one can literally soak a load of the most grimy laundry clean with little or no mechanical action.
The absence of caustics means that laundry washes softer and requires less rinsing and no "souring". Using enzymes instead of caustics for removing soils means wash temps can be 120F to 80F and still give good performance. This not only saves energy, but prolongs textile life, as not many things these days can withstand repeated hot, much less boil washes. From one who irons shirts and linens, am here to say warm water washes does make ironing easier as things do not emerge a constricted, wrinkled mess from the machine, as what happens with hot water.
As surfactants have progressed, what we are seeing is much of the water found in previous liquid detergents, and still in many of the middle and low shelf products, is being taken out. Hence the "X" concentrated craze.
Am doing some bed linens now in a product called "Linen Wash", which is a liquid detergent designed for fine and antique linens using cold or warm water. It was hard for me not to set the temp dial on my Miele to 120F or 140F, my usual range for linens, but we shall see. Added some Bi-O-Kleen "Bac Out" liquid enzymes just to be on the safe side, as the Linen Wash has none.
Are pretty much taking over everywhere, and not without some good reasons.
Most persons simply do not get laundry so soiled as say years ago when many pepople were engaged heavy work and or wore clothing for several wearings. Today's laundry is more likely soiled by body soils/oils, food stains, and perhaps the odd ink or some such. For all of these stains a good liquid laundry detergent with TOL surfactants and enzymes will work very well, and has the advantage of being near neutral pH. The old powdered laundry detergent formulas with heavy doses of caustics such as washing soda, borax, phosphates, and so forth, worked mainly by mechanical action and swelling textile fibers to release soils. Today one can literally soak a load of the most grimy laundry clean with little or no mechanical action.
The absence of caustics means that laundry washes softer and requires less rinsing and no "souring". Using enzymes instead of caustics for removing soils means wash temps can be 120F to 80F and still give good performance. This not only saves energy, but prolongs textile life, as not many things these days can withstand repeated hot, much less boil washes. From one who irons shirts and linens, am here to say warm water washes does make ironing easier as things do not emerge a constricted, wrinkled mess from the machine, as what happens with hot water.
As surfactants have progressed, what we are seeing is much of the water found in previous liquid detergents, and still in many of the middle and low shelf products, is being taken out. Hence the "X" concentrated craze.
Am doing some bed linens now in a product called "Linen Wash", which is a liquid detergent designed for fine and antique linens using cold or warm water. It was hard for me not to set the temp dial on my Miele to 120F or 140F, my usual range for linens, but we shall see. Added some Bi-O-Kleen "Bac Out" liquid enzymes just to be on the safe side, as the Linen Wash has none.
spoodles
Well-known member
Laundress - thank you too for all that information!
I wondered what all these American "bleach alternative" detergents actually contained. I didn't realise it was just more optical brighteners. I noticed Tide were pushing it as being great for keeping colours bright - again it's a different story in the UK - optical brighteners are always removed from any "Colour" detergent...
I wondered what all these American "bleach alternative" detergents actually contained. I didn't realise it was just more optical brighteners. I noticed Tide were pushing it as being great for keeping colours bright - again it's a different story in the UK - optical brighteners are always removed from any "Colour" detergent...
kirk280980
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2005
- Messages
- 172
Am I correct in thinking that optical brighteners are not necessarily as bad for light/bright colours as they are for darks?
Reason I ask is because I recently put together a load of old yellow T-shirts and polos that had seen better days and were starting to look a bit dull. Washed them using regular Ariel Liquid, which doesn't contain any bleach but is heavy on optical brighteners. Everything came out looking fantastic, much brighter and more vivid compared to beforehand.
On the other hand, I've noticed that darks washed using OBAs have a tendency to show a glow in the dark "haze" on the fabric under certain lighting conditions. Not true fading as one would get from bleaching agents, but even so it still looks a little peculiar when standing at a bar only to find that your best black shirt has illuminated under the blacklights!
Reason I ask is because I recently put together a load of old yellow T-shirts and polos that had seen better days and were starting to look a bit dull. Washed them using regular Ariel Liquid, which doesn't contain any bleach but is heavy on optical brighteners. Everything came out looking fantastic, much brighter and more vivid compared to beforehand.
On the other hand, I've noticed that darks washed using OBAs have a tendency to show a glow in the dark "haze" on the fabric under certain lighting conditions. Not true fading as one would get from bleaching agents, but even so it still looks a little peculiar when standing at a bar only to find that your best black shirt has illuminated under the blacklights!
spoodles
Well-known member
kirk - I think optical brighteners are OK for lights, especially if they have started to get a bit dingy. On darks however it can make some colours look a different shade and appear to be faded, although it's just the way the OBs make the light reflect off the clothes, like you say.
Surely the modern European Bio powders are pretty much the same formulation as the liquids more or less. They certainly don't seem to contain much in terms of highly caustic ingredients if you look through Persil or Ariel's ingredient list for their forumlations in the UK or Ireland.
Only difference is oxygen bleach in the non-colour varieties.
The main thing that's making small and mighty attractive to me is that it's more convenient. My whirlpool washer's drawer clogs constantly! Combination of very poor design and not very high water pressure.
Only difference is oxygen bleach in the non-colour varieties.
The main thing that's making small and mighty attractive to me is that it's more convenient. My whirlpool washer's drawer clogs constantly! Combination of very poor design and not very high water pressure.
Omo elsewhere tends to be UK/IRL Persil eqivilant
In most other market's Omo is Unilever's premium detergent brand.
Btw, when was Omo dropped in the UK & Ireland ?
It was certainly around in the late 80s as Omo Automatic in Ireland along side Persil (Unilever)
In most other market's Omo is Unilever's premium detergent brand.
Btw, when was Omo dropped in the UK & Ireland ?
It was certainly around in the late 80s as Omo Automatic in Ireland along side Persil (Unilever)
OBAs and bleach alternative
The Stiftung Warentest says OBAs are in particular bad for light colours. Worst case scenario is a pastell yellow turning pink by reflecting too much blue light.
But on the other hand todays concentrations of OBAs are quite low and Henkel even recomends their non Color versions for light colours.
As to bleach alternative in liquids, I think I remember it is the type of enzymes responsible for the brightening. At least Tide used to claim so on their homepage.
The Stiftung Warentest says OBAs are in particular bad for light colours. Worst case scenario is a pastell yellow turning pink by reflecting too much blue light.
But on the other hand todays concentrations of OBAs are quite low and Henkel even recomends their non Color versions for light colours.
As to bleach alternative in liquids, I think I remember it is the type of enzymes responsible for the brightening. At least Tide used to claim so on their homepage.
