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I'm considering geting some Megaperls to try out. Did you go for that or Universal Powder of some kind? Where did you buy it?

I think there must be a MAP because all the sites I've seen are within a dollar or so of each other!
 
It Is Called Price Fixing

Miele USA as the sole importer of Miele products keeps those allowed to sell Miele products on a VERY tight lead. Should said seller vary from the script, they will be dropped like a cheap date the next morning.

This is why you rarely (if ever) see Miele appliances marked down or on sale. It is also why you do not see many (if any) scratch and dented merchandise for sale. Unless the owner of the appliance (read consumer), themselves are selling the thing, or someone has managed to otherwise get their mitts on the damaged appliance.

Miele USA used to ship unsold appliances and such back to Germany, but that simply costs to much, so IIRC such appliances may now be offered to employees.

Persil laundry products fall under these rules, and that is why all retail sellers are pretty much within the same price range. Brick and motar stores sometimes sell the stuff at huge mark-up as do others, but they cannot sell below MieleUSA's "suggested" retail price.

What many online vendors do is offer incentives such as free shipping to bring the cost down.

Case in point for all this, just this week someone was selling Persil detergents and fabric softeners on fleaBay. Items were listed late at night, and were gone (taken down)by next morning.

There is a online retailer "GermanDeli" or some such that sells foods, housekeeping, housewares and so forth from Germany, and offers Persil as well. Do not think they get their product from MieleUSA though, but may have found away to work around the former's exclusive North American rights.

Oh yes, authorised Miele Canada and Mexico dealers are not allowed to send orders cross border. Vendors are not supposed to ship outside of their country.
 
I pretty much figured as much, although it was still really ~surreal~ to discover no actual Persil detergent on eBay. I must have checked my spelling three times before I began to suspect the heavy hand of "the man" at work. I also discovered GermanDeli in my online searching but they are both out of stock and not really that price competitive vs. the racket... sorry... *market* price.

I may do a little calling around to see if I can get a local rep to knock off enough % off the price (quietly) to make up the difference on sales tax. I'd rather give them the business vs. some anonymous online place.

That being said, if you have good feedback to offer over an "anonymous online place" that stocks Persil, I wouldn't turn it down...

:-)
 
Lucked Out

Got my stash of Persil "Sensitive" on eBay from former Miele dealer who was cleaning out stock. Don't know, didn't care, and didn't ask what Miele USA thought about the deal, but got a case of the stuff for less than what one pays locally for one box. Seller had various Henkel fabric softeners as well, but really don't use the stuff.

Do wonder how extensive Miele's grasp is on dealer pricing when it comes to vacuums and accessories. There are tons of Miele vacuum cleaners, bags and so forth on eBay, many seemingly below MSRP.

Got a huge case of Miele vac bags off fleaBay as well years back. As my upright only takes the "Z" bags, sold off the lot to a local vacuum dealer (had taken my unit in for repair and struck up a convo with the owner), at a very good price. Even paying three to four times more what I paid for the lot, vac guy stated it was still cheaper than ordering from MieleUSA direct.

There are often sellers in Europe selling Persil on eBay, but shipping charges and exchange rates, often make for a deal breaker.

If you reall want Persil, have found ordering directly from MieleUSA the cheapest. Local upscale housewares store charges about 2.5 percent more than Miele for the same detergents.
 
"anonymous online place"

No such animal.

Only way one gets one's hands on Persil in the United States,outside of dealing with Miele USA and it's authorised dealers, and perhaps GermanDeli.com, is to luck onto someone closing out stock. Perhaps a vacuum store or whatever that has gone out of business and it's stock purchased by a third party for selling on.

GermanDeli has been out of Persil for along time now. IIRC, they are located near a military base,and wouldn't be surprised if someone from Germany was shipping them the product, and or otherwise bringing it over. I mean they probabl didn't sell that much to warrant a huge stock. Several cases probably lasted quite awhile.
 
Well I took the plunge and decided to see what the fuss was all about. First up, some jeans, then the whites/lights. Should be a productive afternoon!

mysteryclock++1-16-2010-14-51-36.jpg
 
It is .....

...an excellent detergent as are both versions (European/British) of Persil/Ariel. You will be hard pressed to find better for a front loader...without resorting to the use of additional additives...

The top 5 front load detergents sold in Australia are also very good detergents and get clothes clean not only without using additional additives but also in cold water which the majority of Aussies use...

- Drive
- Omo
- Radiant
- Coldpower
- Biozet
 
How much?

How much are you guys using for a typical wash in a FL? The back of the box starts the dosing at 45ml which is ~ 3tbsp (and it goes up from there!), but I'm finding that 1 tbsp does a pretty good job in the Bosch. I think the dosing goes all the way up to 150ml for hard water + heavy soil but good grief, that's close to 2/3 of a cup ! I'd be afraid it would eat a hole in something at that kind of concentration...

One of ours had a little "accident" in the bed (still working on nighttime potty training) on some flannel sheets and a single tbsp got out both the stain and absolutely 100% of the smell, probably thanks to the multitude of enzymes. That's the first time in recent memory I haven't had to add BioKleen Bac-Out to get the smell out.

So far, I'm impressed.
 
For the cost

...it should take *me* out to lunch (including dessert) and wash, dry, fold and put away my laundry while we're out! No disagreements with you there Sudsman!!

Still, if 1/3 the published dosing proves effective with the kind of grime my kids can come up with then my 45-load boxes suddenly became a 135-load boxes... which makes the math much more palatable. That would put it closer to the realm of $0.33/load which is very much within the bounds of reason.
 
Have Said This Before

Now am repeating, *LOL*

Dosage on Persil laundry products are for the European market, even now despite their new English packaging for North America.

Much of Europe and the UK has water so hard one can chip teeth, hence the rather high dosages. All but the hardest USA water is softer than what one finds across the pond, so dosage can be adjusted downwards quite allot.

Megaperls in highly concentrated, so yes one tablespoon should do for an average front loader wash load. Persil powder dose can range from 2 tablespoons to 1/4 cup, depending upon soil and other factors.
 
In Germany, water hardness is defined/measured in °dH. I just found an online converter and it looks like °dH and grains per gallon are almost the same. So these are the German definitions for soft, medium and hard water:

Soft water would be anything below 8.34 gpg
Medium Hard would be between 8.35 and 14.59 gpg
Hard water would be anything above 14.59 gpg

Depending on your water, you can adjust the dosage accordingly. FWIW, I always use 45 ml, which is what the package recommends for "Soft Water" and "Light Soil".

Alex
 
John, Have you Tried

The sears ultra plus detegent ? @ about 17 cents a load it is very cost effective and here does a very good job. I have tried the Persil and it did well but the cost is far to high for us to use.
 
I did try Sears Ultra Plus (orange box) but it just didn't work as well as I had hoped -- just OK on stain removal (no better than what I was using at the time) and things came out really stiff like it wasn't rinsing well, in spite of a lack of suds in the rinse. All of this was probably due to our strange water chemistry here in middle TN coming into play.
 
When using Megaperls in my Bosch, I use 45ml for average loads and 65ml for heavier soiled loads. Though, to prevent a suds routine, in all towel loads I only use about 35ml. This translates to Soft water, light and normal soils. My water is between 7 and 9 grains, depending on time of year, which my water company considers "hard". With domestic products I generally use the amount stated or slightly less.
My preferences are the Megaperls Color and traditional powder. When using traditional powder, I use 80 or 100 ml for regular and heavy soil loads and 120ml for my massage linens(which require more to get the oil out).
Persil has always been a favourite, I've been using it off and on for 10 year now.
HTH, Todd
 
Well....

...you lot would pass out here then...

Given the USD:AUD is almost 1:1....check out these per dose costs...in cents

Front load detergents (soil removal over 75% in controlled cold 20c)

OMOmatic - 47
Coldpowermatic - 62
Radient - 57
Biozet - 45

Top load detergents (soil removal over 75% in controlled cold 20c)

Omo - 45
Biozet - 42
Coles - 37 (supermarket own label)
Seventh generation - 46

Even the cheapest with over 70% was still 33c
 
John I have seen that happen at Laundries across the street

with the same washers but the same detergent would not work as well one place as it did the other. Know of at least 5 places that very thing has happened . Not just here but in other states too. Thats is why there so many different brands. It really is all a matter of trial and error. just finding what works best where.
 
Math is hard....

...and why couldn't we have converted to Metric when I was young enough for it not to matter?

The box is 3.038kg. The recommended dosing for light/medium/heavy soil in medium-hardness water is 45/85/130ml. The little icon at the bottom of the box says 85ml is 67.5g.

Soooo....

3.038kg / 67.5g is (drumroll) 45.007 loads. The box advertises 45, which means they are marketing it as smack-dab in the middle of both the soil and hardness range. IMO, that's pretty honest and truthful advertising as opposed to the smaller amount!

At 1tbsp per load (let's say 14g) that would be an eye-popping 217 loads per box, or ~ $0.21/load.

I think I'll be a little braver about upping the dosage on some more heavily-soiled items now without worrying that I'm breaking the bank!
 
It shouldn't...

....surprise that a top performing detergent at what is effectively 1/4 dose can still work well...

Choice magazine here tested Omomatic (Australian Leverrexona and equiv to Persil) at 1/2 and 1/4 dose last test to see if it was still effective and that the grey water could be used for gardens long term...

At 1/2 dose it was still the best performing detergent and at 1/4 dose slipped to no:3....though the ability to shift oily marks was reduced but you could safely use all the water in the cycle on plants (not food plants)

So the moral of the story is to reduce the detergent load until you get the right balance for your clothes - not all of us have oily clothes or ground in dirt...and for the loads that do have these stains, up the dose again...

Saves you money, is better for the fabrics and your skin (rinsing) and much better for the environment...
 
Dosing European detergents is a bit different from

the American variety.

The full range of enzymes, bleach and other active ingredients is meant to be available at the lowest dosage listed.

Higher dosages are for harder water.

My water in our part of the city in Munich is over the top of the hardness scale, for instance, so I use an additional water softener and the lowest dose.

Of course, the 20C. nonsense is worth forgetting.

Americans will never switch to metric as long as the packaging volume is in whole units and then converted to the inevitably fractional metric units. Four liters is easy. One gallon is easy. Three liters and 91/100 is too weird for words.
Here in Cheyenne, with moderately soft water, I find two tablespoons of Persil cleans perfectly in the front loader and Thumper (and she's PANK). Three tablespoons are needed for the 18 pound Maytag TL, simply because of the enormous amount of water involved, not the amount of clothes.

European detergents continue to hold soil in suspension for well over an hour as our wash cycles are very long. This is a major plus for soaking and then washing when dealing with stains or oil/grease which are susceptible too enzymes.
 
P&G

Tests Tide, and probably a few other detergents as well using water from many parts of the United States. This is probably to ensure some kind of uniform results, with water quality that varies from Maine to California. More so in that P&G has cut down on detergent plants, so to consolidate production in cost control measures.
 
Still Say

While Persil is great, one obtains the same results using and good TOL American detergent (Tide "Pro-Series" is my current favourite), and adding oxygen bleach where required. If one really wishes to kick things up a notch, adding some STPP gives exactly the same results as Persil.

Tide "Pro-Series" detergent is rated "HE" and rinses as well as Persil.

Also can swear, and have heard this from other quarters as well, that laundry washed in Persil turned "grey" after awhile. Even the "anti-grey" formula has this effect.

L.
 
That's....

....completely different to the experience I have had with UK Persil.

When we came back from the UK in 2004, I shipped 20kg of Persil back with our belongings and used it pretty much exclusively until I got down to the last package, which given Canberra's ultra soft water was about 2yrs later...

I have to say that I never witnessed any greying of whites at all and can, hand over heart, confirm that older white cotton sheets and new cotton sheets hung on the line are almost impossible to tell apart from 5 metres awau....only when you get close can you see one is newer and it certainly isn't because of the colour.

I wonder if line drying v's tumble drying or if there is another factor that has an impact on what you have witnessed?

Thoughts?
 
Laundress Where do you get tide pro series? You say that it can be used in he machines.How big is the package? Thanks Carl
 
Nabbed Several Boxes Off eBay (Where America Shops)

About a year or so ago for a very good (read dirt cheap) price.

You would have to find a P&G "commercial" laundry distributor or vendor of same willing to sell to domestic consumers. Do not know how tight a leash P&G keeps their "Pro-Line" series on. As discussed here in the group often, some commercial laundry products (Ecolab) wont' have anything to do with retail consumers, period. If you happen to get your hands on some product, good for you, but don't bother calling (Ecolab) for assistance.

http://www.greenguarantee.com/opl01.htm
 
P & G Pro Line Products

Can only be purchased thru their Distributors. or if someone can sneak some out on the black market fleabay. I have a large amount that the rep left here for us to try. I have it on 2 machines and does a nice job.. It is very concentrated. only 1 oz for a 50 lb washer and 2.2 on the 150's Downy Pro Line is super concentrated also Only 1/2 oz for a 50 and only 1.2 for the 150's If you need help or have any questions about it dont waste your time calling they WILL NOT help you with out a Customer number and then unless you have a account on file forget it. The are just like Ecolab and get very nasty about it. Even if you do manage to get to talk to some one they will ask you who your local rep is and if you dont know the will give you a name and tell you they will have him call you or that you should contact him first. They were just here yesteday and will be back today to try another washer. At this time they are pulling out all the stops to try to stab Ecolab in the back.. They are giving free Tide for a month if you go with them and drop Ecolab, Any other brands you can get tide free for 2 weeks . They are trying really hard to kick Ecolabs ass. And in this area are doing a hell of a job of it too.
 
Greying

It`s no surprise to me if people complain about grey whites and smelly coloreds washed with Persil considering the ultra small doses some of you use.
You might be thrilled about stain removal, but usually the bulk of soil is invisible like sebum and dead skin cells, so in the long run underdosing will show. German consumer test seperatly rates stain removal (like motor oil, grass, pasta sauce and so on) and soil removal which means how white or grey things are after 15 cycles at 40°C. Both types of Persil Megaperls shined for stain and soil removal.
Isn`t that Bosch an uber sized American one ? I`d go with 45 ml if the washer is only partially loaded and use even more when stuffed to capacity. If it doesn`t suds up like crazy in your very soft water it should be all right.
I understand that German Persil is awfully expensive in the US but wouldn`t it be wiser to use a TOL American detergent at the correct dose ?
 
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