Please help me achieve whiter whites

[mielerod69]

Dixan

I have been using Dixan Multicolor liquid in my Miele W 3985 and I must say its one of my favorite detergents at the moment for coloureds. There is an italian supermarket in Melbourne which sell lots of italian washing detergents. I have Perlana (Perwoll) and its great on my wollen jumpers and the smell is great. I have also used Dash powder for the whites. They don't have Dixan powder yet. It reminds me when I was in Italy and my grandma would swear by Dixan. I have also Miele CareCollection detergents as well, they all work great also and rinse out very easily as they contain no zeolites and the smell is not very strong.

 

[toggleswitch]

Most pre--wash settings I have seen are 4 to 5 minutes in duration. Not longer.

A good fast spin afterwards (not mandatory) also helps remove more muck/yuck!

 

[irishwashguy]

Pre wash

A pre wash can last anywhere from 10 min to 20 min depending on the program. Ten min minumum.

 

[jasonl]

Togs

So you add detergent to the prewash, and then another to the soak cycle and then another to main wash? I'm guessing using less as you go?

Also, what if you're a loser (like me) and can't do a boil wash? Use hot water? I'm trying to figure this out too with getting the yuck off the wash cloths and towels. I know the Oasis is a good cleaner. One of it's cycles (Whitest Whites) does a prewash and a main wash. I can add a soak if possible but I will need to add detergent as it goes through the cycles.

As I remember on the Kenmore 800 there was a switch for automatic prewash/presoak/main wash. If you flipped it on, it will run through all the way. If you flipped it off (LOL), it will stop at the end of each so you can add more soap.

 

[favorit]

Jason,
that's why Miele uses the same water of the main wash to soak. the manual suggestes to use the automatic soak option rather than the prewash : to save water detergent and power. With the soak option engaged it fills, tumbles for round ten minutes heating water up to 85 °F, then sits soaking, with 3 tumbles every 10 minutes up to two hours. then it starts the main wash with the same water (regular tumbling patterns, heat up to target temp ...)
In my novotronic one can choose the soak OR the prewash, NOT both of them in the meanwhile

 

[rudin1969]

The new Mieles with the Stains option carry out an automatic 'intensive soak' when you select some of the stain types (e.g. oil/fat etc.). It's more intensive than the traditional soak as tumbling takes place every minute or so. The duration of this phase depends on the type(s) of stains selected. The wash temperature is also increased by a few degrees depending again on the stain type

 

[westyslantfront]

My recipe for whites that glisten is:

Turn on washer with HOT water. As it is filling, add bluing and chlorine bleach.
If you can get detergent with phosphates such as Mexican detergent, or purchase sodium tri poly phosphate from the
chemistry store online.

Then your whites will glisten.

Ross

 

[favorit]

The OP has a self heating euro frontloader

So toploader tips don't apply in this case.

Also adding LCB while filling is not the best idea : chlorine weakens the detergent and viceversa, no matter of front/top/side/anywhereloader

Not a case commercial laundering has a wash bath, then a bleach bath on already partially rinsed items

 

[iheartmaytag]

As it is filling, add bluing and chlorine bleach.

Do you really want bleach and bluing in the same bath?
I thought that bluing should go in the rinse, as it will react with the detergent and bleach. Has me Mum been wrong all these years?

 

[hcj1440]

OP checking back in

I love how much I'm learning about laundry here. Favorit, you are an incredible fount of knowledge. I think I'll use my newfound ability to customize my Miele options to shorten the soak from 2 hours to 1 hr (or maybe even just 30 minutes) and use that instead of prewash to save water and power. Never even thought of that before reading it in your post.

Still waiting on the Persil powder to arrive. My plan is to try that first, and if it doesn't work on those pesky wash cloths, will try some of the other suggestions here.

Questions:
1) What is TSP? (My inexpert googling is yielding a lot of non-laundry related terms...)
2) And SA-8?

 

[toggleswitch]

~Turn on washer with HOT water. As it is filling, add bluing and chlorine bleach.

Bluing and chlorine in the wash will counteract each-other!
Both will hinder detergents.

A quick warm to cool prewash of no longer than 5 minutes does WONDERS for cleaning perfomance! Dont forget to drain and spin, THEN go to a soak or main wash!

Yes Jason less detergent as you go. Add phospates to LONG soaks and to the main wash. May not be so crucial on a QUICK prewash unless the stuff is mega-dirty!

And remember bluing just counteracts the yellow (yellow+ blue = white). FAR better to get the yellow out due to its true, root cause....improper laundering and/or insufficient ineffective detergent without phospates,lack of sufficient rinsing.

Bleach simply removes color, disinfects and takes the ultra-violet specturm of light and makes it visible. So it does makes whites LOOK whiter in light that contains an ultra-violet component.

Here is what I do to wash my whites in a front-loader.
(The normal cycle is a wash and 4 rinses).

Prewash in warm with POWDERED detergent and phophates. Drain. Spin. POWDERED DETERGENS ARE FAR SUPERIOR TO LIQUIDS. {Try SEars brand powder. Cheap and unbeatable! Rinses clean!)

Begin normal wash cycle with HOT water and detergent and phosphates.

Add bleach to first rinse (this is done automatically in Frigidaire brand front-loaders via their disensers).

Add cheap supermaket-brand watery pink or yellow softener(in the gallon jug /3.78L) to the scond rinse.

Add white vinegar (ONLY TO MACHINES WITH PLASTIC OR STAINLESS-STEEL TUBS-- NOT PORCELAIN-- to the third rinse. This is a sour rinse with an acid that will neutralize all prior chemmicals to form salt + water. (Acid + base/alkaline => salt + water). This prevents the bleach residues from eating your clothes during and after the washing process.

Leave 4th rinse clear of chemicals.

Reset machihne to "SHORT WASH" [or equivalent] (My Frigidaire fornt-loader).

NO CHEMCIALS for three pure water rinses and a fast spin.

A word to the wise NEVER EVER EVER buy cheap/inexpensive bleach; it will eat your clothes. NAME-BRAND ONLY NOT BRAND "X"

 

[toggleswitch]

In a top-loader:

Prewash with warm, 5 minutes Add detergent and phophates. drain. spin.

Wash with hot water, detergent,phosphates. Add bleach in last 5 minutes.

First rinse. Use Bluing OR cheap watery softener OR white cinegar(IF YOU DON'T HAVE PORECELAIN).

2nd rinse: MANDATORY to flush away chemicals and bleach.
and to prevent graying /yellowing residues. NO ADDITIVES AT ALL.

And remember LONG soaks with bleach accomplish nothing but getting you clothes EATEN.

 

[toggleswitch]

If you have both a front-loader and a top loader.
Wash as directed in the panel I wrote (that novel in) for front-loaders.

Pre wash cycle
main wash cycle

Instead of three more clear rinses in a front-loader, transfer clothes to a top-loader and do spray-rinses and a deep-rinse, followed by a spin.

You cant beat these results IMHO without a boil-wash.

 

[toggleswitch]

~What is TSP? (My inexpert googling is yielding a lot of non-laundry related terms...)

A form of less-chemcially stable phoshpates for cleaning your driveway.

The laundry form of phosphates is STPP Sodium tri-polyphosphate.

http://www.chemistrystore.com/cart.cgi?group=88696&child=88793

 

[favorit]

Thanks Holly

SA 8 is a detergent line sold by Amway (a door-to-door sale company)

sodium tripolyphospate (STPP) "is widely used in regular and compact laundry detergents and automatic dishwashing detergents (in powder, liquid, gel and/or tablet form), toilet cleaners, surface cleaners, and coffee urn cleaners [3]. It also provides a number of chemical functions including: sequestration of "water hardness", enabling surfactants to function effectively; pH buffering; dirt emulsification and prevention of deposition; hydrolysis of grease; and dissolving-dispersing dirt particles"

The downside is that the waste water containing STTP is a nice food for algae that cause eutrophycation of fresh waters. For this reason it has been banned.
In Europe is has been substituted by phosphonates : these are photodegradated by sunlight, so avoiding the algae issues

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_triphosphate

 

[toggleswitch]

Trust me darlings.

The maternal unit is a germ-freak where dirt is her personal enemy.

The father is a OCD case with Aspergers.

Believe me, I know dirt and how to get rid of it!

There was no such thing as "too much work" for a desired reult,and no such thing as "the easy way out".

Here, BTW is my boil-washer, a large pot dedicated to my underwear! Did wonders to get rid of tons of yellow before I was informed of a source of phosphates.

YEAS <GROAN> pre-wash in machine first before doing a stove-top boil-wash! You will need tongs to remove clothes

 

[favorit]

elastics and boiling water ???

Toggles, don't you damage them ?

Usually elastics can't survive temps higher than 140 - 160 °F

 

[toggleswitch]

I never said I had white briefs/boxers or socks.........

I boil my T-shirts!

 

[favorit]

ahhhhhh ...

... mystery solved !

 

[toggleswitch]

I REALLY want a 220v Euro boil-washer (for my whites) and a matching Euro electric condenser dryer.

Without starting a war:

Is it a job for Miele?, Asko?, Bosch AEG? or _____?
GO EASY!

 

[gmmcnair]

My Own Recipe for White Whites

Hot water, Sears Ultra plus detergent, some 20 Mule Team borax, and a sunny day to let them line dry.

 

[favorit]

Toggles,
stay away from AEG ... in the last decade Electrolux dropped down a lot AEG built quality. I'm afraid it will be marketed in north America with premium prices and you'd get far less for what you'd pay.

Miele apart from the canadian W1612 and commercial 24" washers doesn't sell anymore any brand new washer that reaches 203°F.
Yet there are still around W19XX machines coming from salesfloors (220 V and boilwashing)

Bosch/Siemens guess doesn't sell any 220V machine there ...

ASKO is the only one. My only concern is they have PC boards made by ELMARC, the very same manufacturer who make boards for Ariston machines ......those who own a Ariston-Hotpoint know what I mean

So I'd buy a 220V Miele or a mechanical timer ASKO on craiglist

 

[toggleswitch]

molto grazie!

 

[toggleswitch]

~Hot water, Sears Ultra plus detergent, some 20 Mule Team borax, and a sunny day to let them line dry.

Excellent. The sun does bleach white beautifully!

 

[hcj1440]

New 220v Miele's available at...

Hi Toggle,

I bought my 220v Miele recently... and they seem to have a few left. It came factory sealed -- not a floor model. They also have Miele condenser dryers.

http://www.gaoutlet.com/laundry.aspx

 

[hcj1440]

OP's Persil results

Persil has arrived via UPS. I tried the universal powder on the wash cloths -- soak, sanitize cycle, extra rinse. No dice. I'm not being very scientific but my *impression* is that the stains lightened about the same amount as with Tide.

Doing a load with Persil megaperls color right now on colored clothing. Looking forward to seeing how that comes out. Would be nice to have a detergent that cleans without me having to pre-treat, but doesn't fade colors. Have high hopes for this one!

Will try sunning the wash cloths this weekend if the weather cooperates. Sun has worked great for me on tomato/carrot-based stains, but usually hasn't done much for me on other types of stains, so I'm curious to see how the gray wash cloths do.

Question: does Persil have STPP? Just wondering if I need to purchase separately to try it. I don't like the idea that it promotes algae in our streams etc and would prefer the European photo-degraded version.

 

[aldspinboy]

Toggs i will try your formula on tuesday raining tomorrow and working late but stay tuned.

Darren k.

 

[surgilator_68]

The problem won't go away in one wash. It's going to take many, many washings to get back to the way it should be.

It's like going to the therapist. It takes many visits there, and it will take many washings to get the laundry back to normal.

 

[westtexman]

Dear OP -

I am with Toggles on the stove-top boiling. I love German Persil, and I use it with STPP on whites and have BRILLIANT results in my front loader.

HOWEVER, I also use white wash cloths and have the same problem with the grey spots in the middle. This is due to body washes. The ONLY way I have been able to get them clean is to BOIL them on the stove for several hours with STPP and some Sodium Percarbonate. I don't use detergent in this load, and I wash them after boiling them.

Even then, not ALL of the grey comes out of every cloth, but it still does a great job nonetheless.

Good luck and let us know how it goes!

 

[hcj1440]

Summary from OP

The truth of surgilator's words are slowly sinking in (will take many washes to get stain out). There seems to be some progress with every wash and on some I have to look a second time to see the stains. Was a fun experiment for me to see the effect of different detergents on the gray spots. I think my conclusion is that Tide (with Oxiclean added), Ecover and Persil universal powder performed so similarly that I could not tell the difference. Persil did turn some spots blue so maybe it will do something different over time.