Designgeek
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2004
- Messages
- 865
Rick:
In fact you could raise a lawsuit to the effect that the sign constituted hate speech and created a hostile work environment. I'm deadly serious. In today's climate it might be difficult to win, but it might be worth a try.
*However*! Never sue when conscience will do.
You & the other gay employees might want to pay a little visit to the sales manager, when there's a chance to talk privately. Ask him what country his ancestors came here from. Then ask him if he would object if you called him by the ethnic slur for that nationality. Then when he looks up startled, say something like this:
"The reason why we bring this up, is because we're gay. We were born that way and God doesn't make mistakes. What you posted was a bigoted stereotype and a cheap shot at our expense. Jesus said love thy God with all thy heart, mind, and soul, and love thy neighbor as thyself. That poster was an expression of hate. So you also committed a sin against your own faith. We expect you to post a public apology and never do that again. What you do outside of work is your own business, but on the job the professional thing to do is to treat your fellow employees with respect. And if you call yourself a person of faith, you also ought to do a pretty thorough soul-search."
Note that in the above, I avoided using liberal cliches like the word "offensive." (Actually I'm an oldschool conservative; I can't do a convincing job using liberal rhetoric, and that is not intended as a criticism of liberals.) The key to this is to speak to the individual on his own terms. See what happens, you never know but you might cause him to think about it and change. If the other guys don't want to come out of the closet, then you can take the stand and tell him there are two more people in the company who are also gay that you know of, and they were just as hurt by it.
Now here's where the legal stuff comes in: If they try to fire you for speaking up, that's called "retaliatory termination," and it's clear grounds for a lawsuit. And you could end up owning the company. But be darn careful that you don't give them another excuse to fire you.
Here's something else that might be helpful. Ever hear of NSA? National Security Agency. Their standard practice is, when you have an issue with a fellow employee, bring it up with the fellow employee first, rather than taking it up the chain of command. At least that used to be the practice in the early 80s, but it probably still is. So if someone gives you grief about raising the issue with the sales manager, tell them that's the way things are done at NSA, which is America's largest intelligence agency, and also that NSA does not discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation.
(The rule is, you have to be out of the closet with your family, friends, and coworkers, so your sexuality can't be used as the basis for an extortion threat by a hostile foreign agent. If it works for NSA's civilan employees it can work for their military ones, and if it works for those, it can work for the rest of our armed forces. Today's generation of warriors don't care who you sleep with, as long as you maintain the soldierly virtues of courage, loyalty, etc., and are proficient in your specialty).
Re. choice vs. nature:
Bethann, it's OK.
As far as I can tell, I'm gay by nature (the way I respond to people who ask when I first chose to be gay, is to ask them when they first chose to be heterosexual; they usually see that it was just something innate). But regardless of nature or choice, the principle still stands that government has no business in the bedrooms of consenting adults, period. This is not Taliban Afghanistan. Any real conservative should recognize the principle of limited government, and anyone with a shred of consistency can't go making exceptions on the basis of their personal prejudices.
So even for those who believe that one chooses who one falls in love with, the point still stands about limited government in a free society. And in any case, one's religion is also a choice.
Jasonl:
Burt Bacharach, eh? I never knew who wrote that one. But I do recall hearing it on the radio many years ago, I think with a female vocalist, possibly Karen Carpenter or someone of that style. What an interesting contrast to the violent, cynical nastiness that so often gets promoted on today's airwaves. What the world also needs now is music and television and movies that promote the simple virtues of human goodness, kind-heartedness, and all of that.
(I have a wild hypothesis, see also my new topic on domestic virtues.)
As my grandmother used to say, what matters most is to be a good person.
In fact you could raise a lawsuit to the effect that the sign constituted hate speech and created a hostile work environment. I'm deadly serious. In today's climate it might be difficult to win, but it might be worth a try.
*However*! Never sue when conscience will do.
You & the other gay employees might want to pay a little visit to the sales manager, when there's a chance to talk privately. Ask him what country his ancestors came here from. Then ask him if he would object if you called him by the ethnic slur for that nationality. Then when he looks up startled, say something like this:
"The reason why we bring this up, is because we're gay. We were born that way and God doesn't make mistakes. What you posted was a bigoted stereotype and a cheap shot at our expense. Jesus said love thy God with all thy heart, mind, and soul, and love thy neighbor as thyself. That poster was an expression of hate. So you also committed a sin against your own faith. We expect you to post a public apology and never do that again. What you do outside of work is your own business, but on the job the professional thing to do is to treat your fellow employees with respect. And if you call yourself a person of faith, you also ought to do a pretty thorough soul-search."
Note that in the above, I avoided using liberal cliches like the word "offensive." (Actually I'm an oldschool conservative; I can't do a convincing job using liberal rhetoric, and that is not intended as a criticism of liberals.) The key to this is to speak to the individual on his own terms. See what happens, you never know but you might cause him to think about it and change. If the other guys don't want to come out of the closet, then you can take the stand and tell him there are two more people in the company who are also gay that you know of, and they were just as hurt by it.
Now here's where the legal stuff comes in: If they try to fire you for speaking up, that's called "retaliatory termination," and it's clear grounds for a lawsuit. And you could end up owning the company. But be darn careful that you don't give them another excuse to fire you.
Here's something else that might be helpful. Ever hear of NSA? National Security Agency. Their standard practice is, when you have an issue with a fellow employee, bring it up with the fellow employee first, rather than taking it up the chain of command. At least that used to be the practice in the early 80s, but it probably still is. So if someone gives you grief about raising the issue with the sales manager, tell them that's the way things are done at NSA, which is America's largest intelligence agency, and also that NSA does not discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation.
(The rule is, you have to be out of the closet with your family, friends, and coworkers, so your sexuality can't be used as the basis for an extortion threat by a hostile foreign agent. If it works for NSA's civilan employees it can work for their military ones, and if it works for those, it can work for the rest of our armed forces. Today's generation of warriors don't care who you sleep with, as long as you maintain the soldierly virtues of courage, loyalty, etc., and are proficient in your specialty).
Re. choice vs. nature:
Bethann, it's OK.
As far as I can tell, I'm gay by nature (the way I respond to people who ask when I first chose to be gay, is to ask them when they first chose to be heterosexual; they usually see that it was just something innate). But regardless of nature or choice, the principle still stands that government has no business in the bedrooms of consenting adults, period. This is not Taliban Afghanistan. Any real conservative should recognize the principle of limited government, and anyone with a shred of consistency can't go making exceptions on the basis of their personal prejudices.
So even for those who believe that one chooses who one falls in love with, the point still stands about limited government in a free society. And in any case, one's religion is also a choice.
Jasonl:
Burt Bacharach, eh? I never knew who wrote that one. But I do recall hearing it on the radio many years ago, I think with a female vocalist, possibly Karen Carpenter or someone of that style. What an interesting contrast to the violent, cynical nastiness that so often gets promoted on today's airwaves. What the world also needs now is music and television and movies that promote the simple virtues of human goodness, kind-heartedness, and all of that.
(I have a wild hypothesis, see also my new topic on domestic virtues.)
As my grandmother used to say, what matters most is to be a good person.
