I have a question of long standing about the GE TOL washers with the programmed settings. All models but the close to the BOL had a Normal cycle and a short cycle with reduced spin and rinse agitation times. The TOL model, since its introduction in 1958, I think, has only had one cycle which would seem to mean no shortened spin or rinse agitation periods for the more delicate settings like cycles 4 & 5, Wash'n Wear delicate and Special for Woolens. Do you suppose the Normal and Short cycle option originated to give better fabric care on one speed machines and then carried through the line so that upper end models, while having two speeds, not be just one cycle while lower end models featured two cycles? Were the two cycles not needed on the TOL, obviously two speed machine since it boasted 5 programmed cycles? While the 1958 washer had a wash period marked in minutes, there was a suggested time for each setting. After that, the wash portion of the timer dial was divided into 5 sections to show where to start each program. Think of other manufacturers like Norge and Wards offering a bazillion cycles based on all the vairables in wash temp, rinse temp, agitation speed, spin speed, and possibly water level. Certainly GE would want to keep at least two cycles on most machines in its line except for the TOL model with 5 cycles in one.
POD 6/13/11 GE 1250Y
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Once again, CU puts the kabosh on something nifty
That's valid. As the Consumer's Reports article pointed out, with many brands, the uber TOL was like this GE and the beloved Maytag 902/906 series offered the consumer less choices and were less versatile than many less expensive machines.
My response was then and is now, "So what?". I thought it was presumptuous of CU to expect that their choices would reflect the wants/needs of all buyers of washing machines. People like my Mother would have been very happy with being able to push one button or one control for her washing machine.
Like most women at that time, she NEVER washed silks or woolens in the machine and, for the most part, would have used one setting 99% of the time. I don't have the numbers at my fingertips, but I would expect that for the entire United States, probably 95% of the time, or more, people used their washers the same way with the same settings for almost every washload. I don't remember ANYBODY in our household (besides me, of course) using the low speed on our Filter-Flo. Mae, our surrogate mother, was a poet of laundry and would occasionally use the short cycle on the GE if she had a quick leftover load of lightly soiled clothing. Occasionally, she would use the "Under-6" load select setting for similar reasons. But for 99% of the time in our houselhold those 4 buttons stayed on "NORMAL", "WARM" "WARM" and "LARGE 10 - 12" which was the second button setting on the TOL GE from 1958 to 1972. Ironically, my Grandmother, my Mother's mother who had practically the same V-12 Filter-Flo as we, washed EVERYTHING on the slow speed setting because she thought the normal setting was too rough. So those same 4 buttons remained on the same settings except the speed button was always turned down to "SLOW". I'm almost sure the slow setting probably matched the oscillations on her wringer machine that remained in her basement until the day she died, just in case the new-fangled automatic failed her.
The Maytag A806 and the usually 2nd from the TOL on other brands were always the machines of choice for people like me, who loved to push buttons and play around with the machines to see what they could do. Think about how many of your mothers who could drive ever used the D2, and/or L settings on their automatic transmissions, or for that matter, ever knew what they were for?
That's valid. As the Consumer's Reports article pointed out, with many brands, the uber TOL was like this GE and the beloved Maytag 902/906 series offered the consumer less choices and were less versatile than many less expensive machines.
My response was then and is now, "So what?". I thought it was presumptuous of CU to expect that their choices would reflect the wants/needs of all buyers of washing machines. People like my Mother would have been very happy with being able to push one button or one control for her washing machine.
Like most women at that time, she NEVER washed silks or woolens in the machine and, for the most part, would have used one setting 99% of the time. I don't have the numbers at my fingertips, but I would expect that for the entire United States, probably 95% of the time, or more, people used their washers the same way with the same settings for almost every washload. I don't remember ANYBODY in our household (besides me, of course) using the low speed on our Filter-Flo. Mae, our surrogate mother, was a poet of laundry and would occasionally use the short cycle on the GE if she had a quick leftover load of lightly soiled clothing. Occasionally, she would use the "Under-6" load select setting for similar reasons. But for 99% of the time in our houselhold those 4 buttons stayed on "NORMAL", "WARM" "WARM" and "LARGE 10 - 12" which was the second button setting on the TOL GE from 1958 to 1972. Ironically, my Grandmother, my Mother's mother who had practically the same V-12 Filter-Flo as we, washed EVERYTHING on the slow speed setting because she thought the normal setting was too rough. So those same 4 buttons remained on the same settings except the speed button was always turned down to "SLOW". I'm almost sure the slow setting probably matched the oscillations on her wringer machine that remained in her basement until the day she died, just in case the new-fangled automatic failed her.
The Maytag A806 and the usually 2nd from the TOL on other brands were always the machines of choice for people like me, who loved to push buttons and play around with the machines to see what they could do. Think about how many of your mothers who could drive ever used the D2, and/or L settings on their automatic transmissions, or for that matter, ever knew what they were for?
Hey, What do they mean calling tub and panel lights non-essentials?!? If it does not light up, it's not Deluxe. One of my brother's and my favorite descriptions of the Titanic in A Night to Remember was the description of the liner with "lights ablaze" that went out with a "searing flash."
GE and Hotpoint sold light canopy kits that could be mounted over the controls of their washers and dryers in the mid 50s. That's how important lights are or were to some people. When the light comes on, it's like the machine waking up or an indication of its life-giving energy returning. It's like Hal saying, "Good morning, Dave." Well, maybe that's not the best example unless the machine is possessed, sort of a Christine of the laundry room. If you could not have a fluorescent panel light, an incandescent dial light was certainly better than nothing.
But what they say about flexibility is true. It probably does not matter to most, but to dial pushers, it does. At least the GE had settings that allowed gentle agitation and fast spin for woolens. With Maytags, for the longest time it was either regular or gentle, no mixing them up. I remember when we got that damned 502 and the instructions said that only for the very most delicate, lightly soiled loads should Gentle be used. This is coming down off the 58 LK and the 63 WA950 with separate selections for Agitation and Spin speeds. Of course, when you saw the agitation in the 502 compared the the Kenmore and GE, you saw why they said what they did, but I digress except that it was the first washer in a long time that did not have a fluorescent light and heavy-looking trim.
GE and Hotpoint sold light canopy kits that could be mounted over the controls of their washers and dryers in the mid 50s. That's how important lights are or were to some people. When the light comes on, it's like the machine waking up or an indication of its life-giving energy returning. It's like Hal saying, "Good morning, Dave." Well, maybe that's not the best example unless the machine is possessed, sort of a Christine of the laundry room. If you could not have a fluorescent panel light, an incandescent dial light was certainly better than nothing.
But what they say about flexibility is true. It probably does not matter to most, but to dial pushers, it does. At least the GE had settings that allowed gentle agitation and fast spin for woolens. With Maytags, for the longest time it was either regular or gentle, no mixing them up. I remember when we got that damned 502 and the instructions said that only for the very most delicate, lightly soiled loads should Gentle be used. This is coming down off the 58 LK and the 63 WA950 with separate selections for Agitation and Spin speeds. Of course, when you saw the agitation in the 502 compared the the Kenmore and GE, you saw why they said what they did, but I digress except that it was the first washer in a long time that did not have a fluorescent light and heavy-looking trim.
Oh, come on. Now you KNOW I want all the lights, all the buttons, all the cycles, all the dials AND the 2-way dryer door plus totally ridiculous and nonsensical cheap wood panel trim. I mean what kind of vintage appliance slut would I be? Please remember that one of the most important icons that got me into this obsession was a 1961 MOL GE Filter-flo whose beautiful white control dial lit up when you moved it from "OFF" to an active portion of the cycle. Now she was my HAL.
By the way, have you ever thought what the hotel room at the end of the movie would have looked like if HAL had killed Keir Dullea on a space walk and left cute Gary Lockwood alive to become the star child?
By the way, have you ever thought what the hotel room at the end of the movie would have looked like if HAL had killed Keir Dullea on a space walk and left cute Gary Lockwood alive to become the star child?
"Think about how many of your mothers who could drive ever used the D2, and/or L settings on their automatic transmissions, or for that matter, ever knew what they were for?"
Think about the mail boxes and shrubbery taken out in Reverse!
I still remember a friend of our family backing out of our driveway that could comfortably hold 6 cars, not cutting it sharp enough in her huge boat, gliding slowly across the street and taking out the neighbor's mailbox just before she stopped. We watched it go over. SHE NEVER FELT A THING! The bumpers were like chromed cast iron. Only the shocked expressions on our faces and her son's shout let her know anything was wrong. She wrote a note which the son put on the box with some tape we fetched from the house. I think she was in one of the GM cars where R was at the bottom of the selections in the little glass.
Think about the mail boxes and shrubbery taken out in Reverse!
I still remember a friend of our family backing out of our driveway that could comfortably hold 6 cars, not cutting it sharp enough in her huge boat, gliding slowly across the street and taking out the neighbor's mailbox just before she stopped. We watched it go over. SHE NEVER FELT A THING! The bumpers were like chromed cast iron. Only the shocked expressions on our faces and her son's shout let her know anything was wrong. She wrote a note which the son put on the box with some tape we fetched from the house. I think she was in one of the GM cars where R was at the bottom of the selections in the little glass.
"Think about how many of your mothers who could drive ever used the D2, and/or L settings on their automatic transmissions, or for that matter, ever knew what they were for?"
Think about the mail boxes and shrubbery taken out in Reverse!
I still remember a friend of our family backing out of our driveway that could comfortably hold 6 cars, not cutting it sharp enough in her huge boat, gliding slowly across the street and taking out the neighbor's mailbox just before she stopped. We watched it go over. SHE NEVER FELT A THING! The bumpers were like chromed cast iron. Only the shocked expressions on our faces and her son's shout let her know anything was wrong. She wrote a note which the son put on the box with some tape we fetched from the house.
Think about the mail boxes and shrubbery taken out in Reverse!
I still remember a friend of our family backing out of our driveway that could comfortably hold 6 cars, not cutting it sharp enough in her huge boat, gliding slowly across the street and taking out the neighbor's mailbox just before she stopped. We watched it go over. SHE NEVER FELT A THING! The bumpers were like chromed cast iron. Only the shocked expressions on our faces and her son's shout let her know anything was wrong. She wrote a note which the son put on the box with some tape we fetched from the house.
Buttons/knobs/switches
I think TomT is right. We folks in AW prefer all the buttons and knobs, but most of my friends laugh at me and say that their machine is stuck on warm/cold, 12 minutes, normal speed for years at a time, no questions asked. While each machine I get immediately becomes my favorite and my daily driver, I must say that the Whirlpool TOL all-automatic pre-set cycles is pretty boring and unvariable. I have to read inside the lid each time to decide what is closest to what I want per load. But the GE filter-flo, I decide on 3 switches, spin the cycle knob to what I want, and all is set, I don't have to read instructions or charts inside the lid to decide, it's all easy to read console controls.
That being said, the TOL WP/KM works wonderfully and gets clothes clean for sure. What I really miss the most is the cycle knob showing where in the cycle it is. My WP is blank blank blank, I have no idea if there is 3 minutes to go or what, can't tell if it's in spin after wash or spin at end, etc, I miss the damn timer knob.
I think TomT is right. We folks in AW prefer all the buttons and knobs, but most of my friends laugh at me and say that their machine is stuck on warm/cold, 12 minutes, normal speed for years at a time, no questions asked. While each machine I get immediately becomes my favorite and my daily driver, I must say that the Whirlpool TOL all-automatic pre-set cycles is pretty boring and unvariable. I have to read inside the lid each time to decide what is closest to what I want per load. But the GE filter-flo, I decide on 3 switches, spin the cycle knob to what I want, and all is set, I don't have to read instructions or charts inside the lid to decide, it's all easy to read console controls.
That being said, the TOL WP/KM works wonderfully and gets clothes clean for sure. What I really miss the most is the cycle knob showing where in the cycle it is. My WP is blank blank blank, I have no idea if there is 3 minutes to go or what, can't tell if it's in spin after wash or spin at end, etc, I miss the damn timer knob.
TOL vs. MOL maybe even vs. BOL
I never gave this much thought until I joined AW.org and quickly realized all the appreciation that is awarded the TOL machines, especially truly vintage models.
I grew up strictly with MOL or upper MOL Kenmores. My mother had largely had the same machine each time she purchased, and I got my own version of the same when I bought my first new washer, though I went maybe one notch below hers in the line because that's what was on sale at the time. The only truly top-of-the-line machine I was ever goo-goo about as a kid was the 1963 Lady Kenmore, mostly because they were so plentiful that I saw many of them, and they were so incredibly attractive.
In reality, I think the comments are correct about certain aspects of these machines being less flexible or less simple to use than their lower line siblings. Similar to Mark's WP that doesn't let you know how far it has progressed in a cycle, the 1965 Lady K has cycles marked on the console, but the console makes no effort to show you which cycle is which, or how many minutes the wash times offer, etc. This is the same on the 1961 Kenmore push button 70 series. This would annoy me on a daily driver.
One thing that I find very ironic that developed from the 1960s to the early 1980s involves timer set automatic temperatures. Originally, if a machine could prescribe these automatically, it was considered 'fancy' or was touted as having extra features so the user didn't have to decide or even think very much. In Kenmores we call these 'Alphabet' washers as each resulting cycle was delineated by a cycle letter, A, B, C, etc. By the late 1970s, this became a feature in Kenmores (maybe other brands as well?) that the user could enable or disable. BOL models retained timer set temps, and they were considered to be less flexible by salespeople, marketers, and buyers, however they were mechanically set-up just like their "fancy" counterparts were 15 years earlier, etc.
For me, the most useful washer is one which has infinite water levels (so I can fill it to where I want in wash, and it fills there again exactly for rinse), a normal wash that doesn't have auto temps or has an automatic cold rinse, manual temperature settings which I can manually manipulate as the machine fills, and perhaps offers a second speed for occasional use (which I use maybe once every two or three months). All the other stuff is fun to play with but absolutely unnecessary for me.
I was just discussing this the other day with an AW.org regular, but I am probably one of those people who could have easily adjusted to a true BOL machine, even one without a water level adjustment provided the tub was standard capacity not large. On the other hand, I have closely studied the mid-80s Lady Kenmores, which would have been fun to purchase new, but the pair was more than $250 more expensive than the 70-series I bought, and there is absolutely nothing on the Lady that I have missed on my machine, with the exception of the infinite water level (my machine has 3 settings).
Overall, I know that TOL machines are fun, but for me anyway, unnecessary.
Gordon
I never gave this much thought until I joined AW.org and quickly realized all the appreciation that is awarded the TOL machines, especially truly vintage models.
I grew up strictly with MOL or upper MOL Kenmores. My mother had largely had the same machine each time she purchased, and I got my own version of the same when I bought my first new washer, though I went maybe one notch below hers in the line because that's what was on sale at the time. The only truly top-of-the-line machine I was ever goo-goo about as a kid was the 1963 Lady Kenmore, mostly because they were so plentiful that I saw many of them, and they were so incredibly attractive.
In reality, I think the comments are correct about certain aspects of these machines being less flexible or less simple to use than their lower line siblings. Similar to Mark's WP that doesn't let you know how far it has progressed in a cycle, the 1965 Lady K has cycles marked on the console, but the console makes no effort to show you which cycle is which, or how many minutes the wash times offer, etc. This is the same on the 1961 Kenmore push button 70 series. This would annoy me on a daily driver.
One thing that I find very ironic that developed from the 1960s to the early 1980s involves timer set automatic temperatures. Originally, if a machine could prescribe these automatically, it was considered 'fancy' or was touted as having extra features so the user didn't have to decide or even think very much. In Kenmores we call these 'Alphabet' washers as each resulting cycle was delineated by a cycle letter, A, B, C, etc. By the late 1970s, this became a feature in Kenmores (maybe other brands as well?) that the user could enable or disable. BOL models retained timer set temps, and they were considered to be less flexible by salespeople, marketers, and buyers, however they were mechanically set-up just like their "fancy" counterparts were 15 years earlier, etc.
For me, the most useful washer is one which has infinite water levels (so I can fill it to where I want in wash, and it fills there again exactly for rinse), a normal wash that doesn't have auto temps or has an automatic cold rinse, manual temperature settings which I can manually manipulate as the machine fills, and perhaps offers a second speed for occasional use (which I use maybe once every two or three months). All the other stuff is fun to play with but absolutely unnecessary for me.
I was just discussing this the other day with an AW.org regular, but I am probably one of those people who could have easily adjusted to a true BOL machine, even one without a water level adjustment provided the tub was standard capacity not large. On the other hand, I have closely studied the mid-80s Lady Kenmores, which would have been fun to purchase new, but the pair was more than $250 more expensive than the 70-series I bought, and there is absolutely nothing on the Lady that I have missed on my machine, with the exception of the infinite water level (my machine has 3 settings).
Overall, I know that TOL machines are fun, but for me anyway, unnecessary.
Gordon
Our 58 Lady was the first Alphabet washer. The cycles ran A--G. There was a pull up chart housed behind the control panel that gave every letter's settings. I think they could have used more attractive colors; turquoise, Kelly green & Royal blue instead of orange, yellow and lavenderish blue and they did not tell you that if you set the wash water temp to "Cool" that's what the rinse temp was also. From our experience with the LK, I can tell you that you will soon know what the most frequently used buttons provide, cycle-wise.
While all of the other features might be needed only occasionally, buying near the top got you style, bigger control panels, chrome (in its day), and lights.
While all of the other features might be needed only occasionally, buying near the top got you style, bigger control panels, chrome (in its day), and lights.
I just simply have all the various cycle buttons & combinations memorized fairly quickly, whether it be Norge, LK, Maytag, or GE (with the 8 or 10 rogrammed version which was my favorite of GEs. It's all fairly intujitive and logical. Not much variation between manufacturers really. Only teh WCI65, and th subsequent 66 and 1967 models baffled me a little bit with their durable vs. man-made wash'n'wear/durable press cycle button combinations.
I may be wrong, but I think I've seen one of the GE manuals for DIY people mention that some timers either had a two-speed motor or could be delayed by special circuits. Maybe the timer had the short cycle programmed in and the regular programs used a delay circuit and/or a different speed in the timer motor?
Paulo, you are correct. A couple of models had a rocker switch near the timer for soak or maybe mini-quick cycles and that changed the speed of the timer for the mini-quick cycle.
The" spin only" on the Kenmores always seemed strange, where the instuctions always stated "allow water to drain b4, closing the lid". Did the "TOL, all pushbutton" take care of this issue on its own. or did you still have to wait while it drained then close the lid to begin the spin? alr2903
The same "condition" would have applied to them. If the lid wasn't kept open for drain, the machine would partially drain (until the water level switch reset), then shift into spin until the water kicked up high enough to trigger the pressure switch again and drop back to neutral drain until the water swirled down. Alternating between spin and neutral drain may repeat more than once depending on the initial water level and how quickly enough water drains to not trigger the pressure switch when it spins up.
I found that the spinning and stopping could be taken care of by holding the water level switch to RESET to override the pressure switch.
This is true ... if one wanted to force a spin-drain. However, I found back in the day that substantial leaking often occurred via the anchor slots for the tub ring clips when the water kicked up on a high level. Seriously hampered my fun, LOL.
