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countryguy

countryguy

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May 29, 2007
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Location
Astorville, ON, Canada
I'm thinking about getting an air purifier. At this time of year with all the windows closed and no ventilation system, the air in the house can become quite stale. Do these portable air purifiers work? I've seen the Oreck advertised on TV? any comments - good or bad?

Thanks.

Gary
 
I don't know anything about the Oreck purifiers but I have two Honeywell certified HEPA air cleaners and I can't imagine being without them.  When my allergies are driving me crazy they're a life-saver. 
 
Gary,

You might check Orek's website, I believe their air "purifier" uses electrostatic
elements (aka electronic air cleaner) which do produce small amounts of ozone. Yes, most produce below the EPA limits, but ozone is a poison nevertheless. I gave up my whole house (central) electronic air cleaner because of this. I really liked it otherwise. Maybe I a being a little overly cautious.

Some of the studies I have read on the web state the biggest problem is the long term exposure, even though the levels are low. Biggest danger is repiratory damage over the long term and deadening of the sense of smell due to damage of the olfactory. Too bad. I like that smell of ozone. It's what you smell after a lightning storm. The small amount amount from my air cleaner always made the house smell fresh and clean.

All air cleaners take out particulates, but don't do anything for Volatile Organic Compounds (VOC's), formaldehyde, household chemical vapors, etc.

Do you have central forced air heating/cooling? If you do, just buy a high efficiency air filter like the 3M Filtrete Ultra Allergen. It's about $19. That's what I use. It's almost (but not quite) as effective as my electrostatic air cleaner. I leave the fan on the furnace/ac on continuously 24/7. It keeps the air moving and filtered. The continuous air movement also levels out warm/cool spots in the house andm I have found, gives you more even air temperatures.
 
The Oreck's process does produce a small amount of Ozone but the newer ones have a "catalytic converter" of sorts to neutralize that ozone before the air is expelled. Also ,there is a activated charcoal "filter" which should be replaced anually that absorbs formaldehyde, benzene and other toxic gases in the air. My friend with asthma is so impressed, she wants a second one,said it dramatically helps her. I used to work for Oreck,and wish that I could buy one for myself, but cannot right now.
 
Half A Dozen of One vs Six Of Another

The best HEPA filters will work a treat on keeping indoor air free of dust, pet dander and other types of pollutants, however it's rather like purchasing an ink jet printer; often one is getting the printer but buying the ink. By that one means the HEPA replacement filters especially on the best units are very dear in terms of cost. Sooner or later one has out spent what one paid for the unit on filters.

There are only a few "excellent" electrostatic air purifiers: Friedrich, Trion, and one or two others are the only models that score well in independant tests and came highly rated by Consumer Reports. However about a year or so ago CR pulled their support for any electrostatic air purifier that gives off even small amounts of ozone, so that was that.

We have a Trion unit and as they are no longer made filters can be hard to find. Oreck's console and desk unit are almost exactly the same so was pleased to find filters again. The same model was also sold under the Kenmore brand as well.

One problem with electrostatic units is that unless the plates and pre-filter are kept totally clean efficiency drops off. Worse depending upon the after filter's condition and design that charged "dust" can and will be spewed all over one's home and cling about surfaces including walls, furniture and so forth. Also as the plates become dirty with dust you'll hear snapping noises (similar to electric bug zappers). Depending upon how often this happens it can be annoying, espeically at night if one has the unit in or close to the bedroom.

Whatever unit you choose make sure to inquire about it's filtration rates not just when the thing is working on "High' but low as well. Many air purifiers work their best only at high settings, but that can also be like sitting next to a high powered fan in terms of noise. This can be distracting say if one is trying to watch television or even sleep. Many units recommend using the high setting only when there is lots of dust in the air such as when housecleaning,dusting, vacuuming, making the beds, smoking or cooking, etc., and otherwise switch to low
 
Thanks for all the advice/info guys.

Bwoods, no I don't have central air/heating in my house. When I was looking to get rid of the electric baseboard heaters 2 years ago I inquired about installing a forced air system but unfortunately it is impossible to do with the way the house is built. Instead I opted for a hot water radiant baseboard system.

Launderess, I know what you mean about the cost of the Hepa filters. I was looking at a Honeywell unit and the Hepa filters are $89. Way too expensive since they are supposed to be replaced every 6 months.

I don't have allergies so I'm not really concerned about filtration. I'm more concerned about getting rid of the stale air smell. It isn't a problem in the summer since the windows are open but from now until next spring I notice the odour every time I walk into the house.

Gary
 
Gary,

Since filtratin isn't a specific need for you, you might consider a Heart Recovery Ventilor.

These pull in fresh air from the outside and exhaust stale inside air out.

However, they also exchange heat from the exhaust air with the incoming air so you are not dumping the heat (and the money) you expended to heat the indoor air. Ssome will even exchange humidity also.

In the summer it works in reverse and uses the cool exhaused air to cool down the incoming warmer air so you are not paying to cool (if you have AC) the warm outdoor air.

These units are not only made for central systems, but they also have wall and window units for people in situations like you.

As soon as I ge the money, I intend to put a central whole house unit in. It's a good way to keep your air fresh and lower indoor pollutant and contaminant levels without throwing your money away on heating or cooling incoming outdoor air, as you would if you opened a window.

Barry
 
Gary, I hate that stale, closed-up-house smell when I come home too.  Even in the dead of winter I occasionally open a couple windows for a few minutes just to get some fresh air in the house.  I don't have any pets (great companions and great odor producers) but my basement does get a stinky mildew odor despite running a dehumidifier continuously from March to November.

 

There are some high-tech air purifiers that use activated charcoal/zeolite filters which remove odors and noxious gasses but the cost of the machine and filter replacement is beyond my budget.   Ionizer type air purifiers aren't the answer in my book either.  The ozone they produce deadens your sense of smell so you just don't notice odors.  Cleaning like a mad-man and opening a window when the air goes stagnant is what I'm resigned to do until, as was suggested, I can install one of those air-exchangers which would be ideal.  At least I'm a step ahead here since I have forced air heat/ac.

 

Neil
 
I have a dehumidifier in the basement running almost constantly from spring to fall. When I had electric heat, supplemented by a wood stove, I had to run a dehumidifier constantly during the winter on the main floor also because of the high humidity - there was always water on the windows in the morning. Now that I am heating with the radiant baseboard heat, I no longer need to run the dehumidifier on the main floor. The heating contractor suggested installing a heat recovery ventilation system but again, there is no room for ductwork nor do I have the space for the unit itself. I was hoping to find a portable unit that would do the job.

Gary
 
Charcoal..

Actually if its just odors, plain (no lighter fluid) charcoal works great. Since I smoke, in winter I keep a few loosely woven lidded baskets around with some in it, and change it out once a month. I also do a quick, and I do mean QUICK throw open the windows, air the house, when I change the charcoal. In a refrigerator manual from the 40's I have, it says charcoal filters can be renewed by baking them in the oven to get rid of the absorbed odors, but, since charcoal is so cheap, I have never tried this.
 
For what it's worth

Consumer reports says that room air cleaners are very effective, however, as soon as the central air unit kicks in , or someone opens a door--all is for not.

They actually suggest you spend a few extra bucks on a pleated filter on your Furnace / A/C air handler.

 
 
I find that some of those 3M pleated filters drastically cut down on airflow making the air handler fan work that much harder. There are pleated filers out there that don't cut the airflow down as much, such as Purofilter filters.

We had an Oreck air cleaner that worked fine for us. You can find them on Ebay for a lot cheaper than in the store. Ours has lasted for at least 8 years. I wrote a review of it for eopinions.com in case you'd like to see what I thought of it.

When we replaced out a/c unit in August of this year we installed a Aprilaire electonic air cleaner in the system. We really can't believe the reduction in dust in the house. It sure does capture a lot of dog dander. It also captures ragweed which is rampant here this time of the year. Ours also has a UV light in it so it is suppose to sanitize the air too. So far, so good.

http://www.epinions.com/content_92251721348
 
Thanks Whirlcool. I read your review. I am leaning towards getting the Oreck but it is pricey. The Home Shopping Channel has it for $349. I missed the sale 2 weeks ago when it was $249. I checked Ebay and found several but I am leary buying from there in case there is anything wrong with it because there is no Oreck dealer around here. From all the reviews I have read on different makes of air purifiers they all seem to have some kind of problem.

Gary
 
But that's a bathroom ventilator fan, I think Countryguy was looking for something to clean the air in his home.

I reread that review I wrote. That was written a LONG time ago! We now have 4 dogs instead of 2.

There isn't much to go wrong with an Oreck Air Filter. There are only the metal electronic grids that catch the dust. The optional charcoal filters (listed often on Ebay) and the switches on the unit. That's all there is to it. Plus they have that new filter that catches the ozone and prevents it from escaping into the room. Now that filter is expensive $54.00, but you change it only once per year. If you find on on Ebay for a decent price, I wouldn't be shy of it.
 
not a bathroom fan

That is not a bathroom fan, Allen. That is an ERV that mounts in the ceiling of any room. Most people install it in their bedroom so they have fresh air at night while they sleep.

It is designed to mount in the ceiling for people who don't have room for a wall unit, or cannot install a central unit.

Yes, it does look like a bathroom exhaust fan, but its not designed to go in the bathroom and its not an exhaust fan. It's a full fledged ERV that cost almost $400.
 
Ok, after doing a lot of research, comparing features, prices, etc. I decided to get the Oreck air purifier from the Home Shopping Channel. It has a 30 day no questions asked return policy as well as a 5 month no interest payment plan. Also it seemed to be the least expensive when it came time to filter replacement. I could have purchased directly from the Canadian Oreck website but the price was $120 more although it did include a free rechargeable stick vacuum and a fridge air purifier. I don't need either of these extra bonuses so that's why I went with HSC. I'll provide an update once I've used it for awhile.

Gary
 
Attached is the link to Panasonics schematic for the ERV. It actually has double filtration. If you look on page three of the operations manual you can see both filters.

However, that is not the main purpose of the unit. The purpose is to exhaust polluted air and replace it with clean, fresh air from the outside. It reduces household chemical contaminates and staleness, not through filtration but fresh air.

The beauty of it is, it is not just pulling out interior air and bringing in outside air, but it is actually transfering the heat energy from one air stream to the other so you are not throwing heated or air conditioned air outside.

In other words, in the winter it is bringing in outside air, but it transfers the heat and humidity from the exhaust air stream and puts it into the incoming air stream so you don't have to pay to reheat or rehumidify the cold dry outside air.

The small amount you pay to run the fan in the ERV is just a minute percentage of what it would cost to heat the same amount of incoming air, if one opened a window and let in an equivalent volume of fresh air as that brought in by the ERV.

(Not to mention, an open window in the winter may give some rather uncomfortable cold drafts! :-) )

http://www.panasonic.com/consumer_electronics/ventilation_central/pdfs/FV-04VE1-E.pdf
 
"Optional charcoal filters ..."

They are nothing of the sort and must be used with all electrostatic air "cleaners". Otherwise the amount of ozone generated (though many manufacturers claim is small" will increase. Also those filters also help catch what can be no small amount of dust/dirt that manages to bypass the prefilter and electrostatic plate.

I vaccum the charcoal filters (both sides) when taking the whole schbang out to clean the plates.

By the way, if one has any STPP in the house add a bit to the water bath when cleaning the plates. You'll be amazed at the dirt, dust and general filth that comes off in the water and the phosphates make sure it stays in solution and goes down the drain.
 
I didn't read the entire manual, Gary. I don't blame you, if you can't use it between November and April! Those are the times when you need it most, because the house is closed up.

If you did go iwth an ERV, you would have to go with the bigger through the wall units which have automatic defrost and can be used year around and will work in double digit subzero tempertures. In trying to make the Panasonic small and unobtrusive by deleting proper defrost mechanisms, they excluded it from markets who have extreme climates.

Down the road, you might want to consider an air forced central heating/cooling system. They can be installed in basements, crawl spaces or attics depending on your architecture. You have the ability to have continuous whole house air movement, filtration and humidification. They also have ultraviolet light systems (which I have) to kill molds and bacteria in the air stream.

In the interim, yes, you probably have made a good investment in the Oreck. It will at least clean out the particulates and the activated charcoal should take out some of the VOC, etc. if you keep the door closed in the room while you are using it.

Hope it works out well for you.
 
I did consider an air forced central heating/cooling system (see reply #6) 2 years ago when I was looking to replace the electric heat.  I had 3 heating contractors to the house and they all said that it was nearly impossible to do because of the way the house is built (the floor joists run in 2 different directions and there is a concrete block wall separating the utility room from the rest of the basement) and it would end up being very very expensive.  I would also lose a lot of head room in the basement (which is finished).  My preference would have been a central system.

 

Gary
 
That's too bad, Gary.

Just out of curiosity. Do you have aa central vacuum cleaning system in your house?

It seems like Canada is way, way ahead of the U.S. as far as having homes with central vacs installed. I have put one in every house/condo that I have had. Many people look at me like they don't know what I am talking about when I mention the system.

It seems like we have a wide open market in the U.S. for central vacuum systems and yet very few dealers. It is only in the upper elite homes that I sometimes see builders install one. And sometimes even these homes don't have one.

I feel like the U.S. is in the dark ages when it comes to central cleaning.
 
No, my house does not have a central vac.  My previous 2 homes had them and actually I prefer not to use one.  I found getting out and storing the hose cumbersome (although now there are ways of storing them in the wall, etc.).  Also, for a quick clean up, a canister vac is a lot quicker and easier.   I think most new build homes around here have central vac roughed in ie. the piping is in place but no vac unit.

 

Gary
 
An update.  I received the Oreck air purifier last Fri. and have had it running constantly since then.  So far I have not noticed any difference in the air quality but then the air in my house was not that dusty to begin with and I also don't have allergies.  I've only noticed a very slight improvement with the overall stale air odour.  I have 30 days to return the unit for a full refund so I'll wait 3 more weeks to see how it performs.  I've had it in 3 different areas so far - hallway close to my bedroom, other end of the hallway at the top of the entry stairs which is next to the living area and currently it is in the kitchen entrance but facing the front entrance way where I always notice the odour the most. 

 

So far I am not impressed with Oreck's customer support.  The unit came with a DVD in addition to the manual.  In the manual it say NOT to wash the filter in the dishwasher but rather just use dish soap, let it soak and then rinse however on the DVD it states that it can be placed in the dishwasher - contradictory.  So I sent an email off to Oreck Canada on Sat. and so far still no reply.  Yesterday morning I sent the same email to Oreck USA and no reply as of yet.  I haven't tried calling the support line - that will be next.

 

After registering the unit with Oreck Canada, I received an email from them offering me $100 off the next unit I purchased and 50% off each additional unit as well as a free refrigerator air purifier ($50 value) and a free electric broom vacuum ($100 value).  The advertised price on their website for the unit is $120 more than what I paid from the Home Shopping Channel. 

 

Gary
 
Kind of late to chime in.. Gary, those table top Orecks and the similar ones you can get at Sears etc are only meant for one room not a whole house and they're not really powerful enough to do a typical livingroom let alone one that is open to the diningroom and/or kitchen. Ideally they're only good for a bedroom, with the door closed. If I were you I'd return it and get a refund. I've have a few of them that I've found at thrift stores and not impressed. Personally I think the Honeywell ones that use the round permanent HEPA filters that can be vacuumed are better and much cheaper. I've found a few of them at thrift stores as well for around $10-$15 each. I keep one in my bedroom and another in the livingroom but don't run that one much

like these ones ..

http://www.achooallergy.com/honeywell.asp?gclid=CIv98aXgjKwCFQUKKgoddmBwoA
 

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