Powder vs. liquid detergent

[aamassther]

I was curious about those statements as well. Not being a chemist, I wiki'd H2O2, chlorine bleach and chlorine. Without going into lots of detail. Mich is partially correct. H2O2 is a weak acid with a pH of 6.2 and considered a strong oxidiser.
From the info I found, mixing these two substances, at higher and purer concentrations than we use in the home, did indeed result in toxic gases being produced. Though not mustard. Chlorine, from mustard's wiki entry, has been used to neutralise mustard poisoning. From opinions on the web and the wiki entry's, the resulting gases were chlorine or oxygen, most likely chlorine. Neither of which is good for us to breathe in concentration.
When you read the chemistry of both, it makes more sense that at the low concentrations we use in the home, they cancel each other out in the wash water, but shouldn't be mixed in purer forms. Much like mixing ammonia and LCB vs. peeing in the toilet when a bleach cleaner is in it.
Just thought I would pass along what I found.
[this post was last edited: 12/7/2013-10:57]

 

[mwb]

Todd you are correct. My apologies to Mich. Hydrogen peroxide is indeed a weak acid. I was typing from memory which is not always the wisest thing to do. Obviously, peroxide solutions would have to be mildly acidic in order to neutralize chlorine. Duh!

 

[frontloaderfan]

Okay, so the case of Persil got here today. I just want to be sure I'm dosing it correctly. The chart says for heavy soil and in hard water (which Maine definitely has) I should be using 275 ml of detergent. What?

I learned baking in Germany, where Persil is made, and we had to use the metric system, which I still use for baking, but in my book, milliliters are for liquid measures, grams are for dry measure. So if Persil is a powder, shouldn't it be weighed in grams?

There is a conversion chart on the side of the box, which says 155 ml is equal to 95 grams. So, by way of a Dreisatz (sorry, I don't know what this is called in English), I figured: 275*95/155=168.5 or 170 grams rounded off. I got out the kitchen scale and weighed 170 g. of Persil, which was about 1 1/2 cups, which did not even fit in the detergent dispenser. Is this right or am I just a stupid American? Hilfe![this post was last edited: 12/7/2013-14:40]

 

[aamassther]

Detergent measures on the Persil pkts are volume not weight. I use about 60-120 cc/ml of the powder and 45-65cc/ml of the megaperls. We had mod hard water in Michigan and now very soft mountain water here in NC. I use the same amts here.
When I lived in Portland our water was quite soft, the origin was Sebago Lake. I'm surprised your water up Sanford way is that much harder since you're not that far south from Portland. You on well water?
HTH, Todd

 

[hoover1100]

Persil dose

That sounds about the right amount, these days we dose powder by volume (ml) instead of weight (grammes) 170g seems a pretty normal amount, if ou can get hold of a measuring jug with ml on it it might make it easier than having to covert the dose.

Nothing will leave your clothes cleaner than a good heavy soil dose of a premium biological European bleach containing detergent!

Matt

 

[strongenough78]

1.5 cups? That must be for a top load machine.

 

[frontloaderfan]

Water..

Hey Todd, that helps a little. Actually, Sanford has "gravel filled wells" around York county and the water company said we have 7 grains (whatever that is) and upwards. I noticed the faucets scale up fairly quickly as well. So by volume, you mean I just get out my measuring cup and measure out 275 ml on the metric side?
So needless to say, I probably used about three times what I should have...sigh...

I guess if I were smart, I would have seen that there are 475g in the box, which says it yields 5 washes, ergo 95g per wash on the average...

After having used American laundry detergents for the last 8 years, I must say I am impressed. I had forgotten how clean Persil smells. Not overpowering, just clean. Even though I probably overdosed this time, it rinsed away cleanly too, not like Tide, which sticks around for the next wash, even when I use the tabs.

I think I'll skip the FS on the next wash. The smell of Downy is downright gaudy compared with the modest scent of Persil...[this post was last edited: 12/7/2013-15:08]

 

[aamassther]

7 grains is in line with the water I was used to in Michigan.
Yes, you're correct use a common measuring cup. Though 275 ml (approx. 1-1/4c)is a lot of powder
for on load one load. I get great results with less than half
that for a heavy soiled load in my Frigidaire Affinity. With the European stuff
there's a learning curve to get the right amounts. The cost is a big incentive
to be frugal.

 

[frontloaderfan]

So you and I even have the same machine. How cool! No, it was not cheap. I got eight boxes of 475g each for $29.00 plus shipping, but now I will most likely be able to skip the Oxyclean (and possibly FS. Don't want to ruin that beautiful scent!).

 

[aamassther]

I agree, with being able to cut down on the amount used and not needing additives,
makes the cost a little more agreeable.
The price you paid is lower than I've paid.
It is cool we even have the same machines! I like mine, just wish the heater would
work in all cycles

 

[frontloaderfan]

You're lucky, mine doesn't even have a heater or a drum light. Strictly BOL. You can see them at the bottom of the "Pedestals or no pedestals" thread. I wish I had spent a couple of hundred more and got some nicer features...

 

[mrboilwash]

Hi Ryan, what is considered hard water (7 gpg) in the US is still considered soft water in Germany.

1 gpg (Grain per Gallon) = 0,9591 °dH (Deutsche Grad)

means your 7 gpg are only about 6,72 °dH

< 8,4 °dH is Soft (in Germany)
8,4 - 14 °dH is Medium
> 14 °dH is Hard

 

[ronhic]

Ryan

Given the above information and how strong a performer Persil is, I think you should try the dosage for 'soft' water and 'medium' soil level and see if you're happy with the results.

When we lived in the UK, I used to use the lowest dose - soft water/light soiling. This was in London which has hard water, but I used to add Calgon gel to negate the hardness.

I never had a problem with stains.

 

[aamassther]

Your set is the one I recommended to a friend, they like them. It's a good, sturdy machine.
Sound advice from Ronhic, I started with soft water, medium and was able to back down, depending on the load. For a lights load of polos and t's 60cc, sturdier, dirtier stuff closer to 100cc, my massage linens 120cc.
I use megaperls color for darks.

 

[frontloaderfan]

mrboilwash: Danke der Aufklärung! I had forgotten how hard the water is in Germany.

Chris: Thanks for the suggestion! I will definitely try that next time. 270g Persil is a TON for a frontloader. Talk about overkill! It also says that it contains water softener, an added bonus. I recall a news spot in Germany where they were saying most good detergents actually contain water softener anyway and that Calgon was just using their "Washing machines live longer with Calgon" slogan to scare people into buying something they didn't need.

Todd: I've had them just over a year now and so far they've been an awesome set! Since I got the government mandated bugs worked out (more water and unplugging the water temp sensor), the washer has been a real performer. I haven't had any of the problems with either of them I had read about online.
I think I'd like to get the Color Megaperls next too. I used them from time to time in Germany as well. If you place an order over $90.00 from the Persil store, you don't have to pay for shipping, so maybe next time I'll order both and stock up for a while.

 

[MrX]

Front loaders are most definitely designed for use with powders. In fact, they're probably more powder-friendly that traditional top loaders as they even come with a dispenser drawer that automatically disperses the powder and adds it to the wash at the right time (and does it twice if you've a prewash selected).

I use both powders and liquids for different purposes.

For general, light washing where I don't want to remove stains, I use Persil Small and Mighty liquid (biological version). It's much less likely to cause colours to fade and it seems to do a reasonably good job on most items.

For anything with a serious stain and also for all of my white clothes, towels etc, I just use regular biological powder either Ariel or Persil.

I find you can use those powders with everything, but they do start to fade dark colours and jeans much more rapidly than liquids.

 

[aamassther]

Ryan, with your modifications, your machine sounds like the 2000 era frigidaire I had. Did a good job cleaning with plenty of water and 4 rinses.
Productswithstyle.com or persil store both have single pkts of persil with free shipping, you don't need to spend their minimum that way. I buy my somat powder that way. 20 bucks, no shipping. Loaded with phosphates.

 

[MrX]

It's not just US detergents that hang around afterwards!

Ariel (P&G top of the line detergent in European markets) is very pungent. It's hard to describe the scent as it's not floral and it's not pine, it's just 'Ariel' but it's definitely designed to hang around.

Persil (Unilever version) also has microcapsules which seem to retain its scent for a very long time. It's not an overpowering scent, but it's very distinctively 'Persil'.

i've noticed that CIF cream now suddenly smells rather like Persil powder too. I wonder if Unilever's just using the same perfumes to scent it.

Persil liquids here have quite a difficult to describe scent too. It's quite sharp, but not citrus and it's not at all floral. It's not an unpleasant smell but it's very definitely artificial and I'd immediately associate it with Persil.

Henkel Persil seems to be far less pungent!

 

[frontloaderfan]

I used Ariel Futur a couple of times but I recall I didn't like the scent of it as much. I think my favorite, after Persil Megaperls, was Frosch powder (I probably just like the pretty tin in came in). It seems there are a lot of very "chav scented" (love that term!) detergents here in the US. Things like "floral explosion" (sounds like something Paul Lynde would do during sex) are just too overpowering for my taste.