Pre-Test Advice Needed KDS18

[kakidd]

Hello Again,

First of all, Thank you so much for all of your help so far. Sorry to be so needy but I'm asking for more advice. I want to test my new toy this weekend and I have a couple of questions. First and foremost, I am only seeing two wires, 1 white and 1 black to connect the DW to a power cord and I thought there were supposed to be 3, 1 of which would be the ground. Am I missing something?

Also, I am kind of excited as the blower assembly and fill valve look like they might have been replaced recently, thoughts? Soap dispenser looks a little corroded. The main wash cover was closed when I picked up the machine but popped open when I pressed the lever when I removed the panel. Is that a good sign?

Again, sorry to be such a novice and thank you so much for your assistance.

I would still like to get some racks that are in better condition and stainless panels for the front if anyone has any suggestions on where I might find these.

Mark

 

[kakidd]

Sorry, Wrong Forum

Not sure how to move to Imperial.

 

[washdaddy]

Green is your ground

In the first pic you posted there appears to be a green wire that's attached by a screw to the frame of the dishwasher. It's partially blocked from view by that bundle of wires. That would be where you would attach your ground wire.

 

[kakidd]

Thank you Washdaddy!

 

[kakidd]

Racks

Are racks from kds 19 & 20 series able to be used in the 18?

 

[stevet]

Racks...

I believe the rack question was already answered in your other post or one recently posted by another member. Totally interchangeable. You should not have a problem swapping them out.

 

[stevet]

Earth to Ground...

The incoming service line should be 3 wires as you said, one wire hot, one wire neutral and one wire a ground. The grond connects to a screw located next to where the black and white wires come through the frame.They were covered by a rectagular galvanized box that had a tab that slipped into the crossmember and a screw to secure the box to the frame crossmember.
If you can get an eyelet on to the ground, secure it with the screw if it is still there or to a hole in the crossmember. You can also wrap the grounding wire around the screw and make sure it is secure.(but that looks sloppy)

 

[chachp]

Stainless Panels.

The part number for these is B-241677.   There is a seller on eBay that just had some and they sold.  They seem to have many because shortly after they sell a set another appears.

 

I would do a Followed Search on eBay for this part number and you'll get an E-Mail when another is listed.

 

[danemodsandy]

Not Needy!

Please don't ever apologize for asking questions around here! We love to help new people who are serious about pursuing an interest in vintage appliances.

The day nobody asks questions, we ain't got nuthin' to do!

 

[chachp]

Me either.

I learned everything I know from the folks here.  I bought my first vintage machine a few years ago which was a KDS-17A that I got on eBay for $25.  I cost me more to rent the truck and drive 4 hours to get it but I would do it again.   I didn't know anything about this stuff when I bought this machine.  I learned as I went along.

 

The folks here are a wealth of knowledge and always eager to help.  That looks like a really nice machine and I'm sure you'll have it in your kitchen in no time at all.

 

[kakidd]

drain hose

I am going to have to get some drain host for testing and hopefully installation, what do I ask for at the home improvement store??

 

[beekeyknee]

Do you have an Ace Hardware near by? You can find everything you need there and usually get much more help. They have d/w hose in bulk and you can get a fitting to go on the d/w water valve, a double female adaptor to go between the fitting for the d/w valve and a garden hose. You'll need some thread tape for the fitting that goes on the d/w and then tighten the double female adaptor to the fitting and the hose until there are no leaks. You have to have a garden hose that doesn't leak around the metal ends or cut off the ends and put some new ones on. Hook it up to a hot water faucet in the house - and not on to the water heater. You'll get crud out of the w/h that will clog the screen on you d/w valve.

 

[beekeyknee]

I see the "L" fitting is already on your d/w. Take it off and take it to the hardware store and tell them what you want to do. They should be able to get the fittings you need to make everything work.

 

Actually, now that I think about it, you won't use the "L" fitting for the test. They will give you a piece that threads onto the w/v and points straight out. Then you put on the double female adaptor,  the garden hose and check for leaks. Take the "L" shape with you so they will know the thread size for the w/v to garden hose adaptor.

 

Oh, you didn't say anything about testing it outside. Sorry, must have this thread mixed up with another one.

[this post was last edited: 8/15/2014-20:00]

 

[kakidd]

One Small Problem

OK, went to Home Depot, got the parts, hooked it up and it runs beautifully. Ran a Rinse & Hold, no problem. Ran Normal Wash, no problem. Ran second Normal Wash and water is dripping from right front corner, the running to left and dripping out both sides. Could this be gasket? Also, main wash dispenser does not open, prewash is fine but main wash cover does not open. Also seems to be a slow drip from soap dispenser.

Any thoughts/advice appreciated!

 

[barcoboy]

For the detergent dispenser, take off the cardboard covers on top of the bi-metals and watch them while the cycle is running. When it is time to open each door, the timer routes power to the motor through one of the bi-metals, thus causing the bi-metal to heat and flex, which releases the door catch and a spring snaps the door open. It is possible that the main wash bi-metal isn't flexing enough to release the catch, and it can be bent slightly to adjust it. If the bi-metal is releasing the catch, then the problem might be a broken or weak spring, or something binding the door preventing it from opening. With regards to the dispenser dripping, do you know if it is the outside seal of the detergent dispenser that is leaking, or one/both of the detergent dispenser door shafts where they come through the dispenser? (Removing the cardboard covers will also help you determine this if you're not sure.) If it is the shafts that are dripping, this can easily be fixed by changing a couple of o-rings on the shafts. Have a look at the thread I wrote up about this for my KDS-58C (the Canadian portable version of the KDS-18.)

I'll let someone else answer regarding the other dripping, but it sounds like it could be the door seal.

http://www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?45246

 

[kakidd]

It seems odd to me that it ran through a rinse and hold and a full normal cycle with no leaks but then started leaking on the second full cycle. I did have a large skillet and a casserole dish on the bottom rack so maybe the water was disbursed differently. Are the door seals obtainable?

 

[stevet]

LEAKS WITHOUT LOWER RACK???

Did you run the initial cycle with the rack in and then took them out on the later ones? If so, that may be your problem. The rack haS small plastic tabs on it that help prevent leaks from occurring when the water sprays into the joints between the tank and door. Try it again with the lower rack in and see if it stops.
Also, make sure the machine is level front to back and side to side. A foward tilt can cause leaks. Also, make sure that the lower wash arm support is in good shape and intact. If the bushing in it is messed up or the support very badly worn, you could be blowing water out of the bottom of the wash arm hub and creating waves that can lap over the bottom the tank and leak.

As far as the bi-metals go, the advice above is a good start. Also, if the dispenser is leaking, it may have rotted away the small connector that power the bi-metal. Check that too.

And for safety purposes when checking the bi-metals, always turn the power off to the machine as voltage is standing on those on on side of the circuit.

DO NOT EVER TEST THEM BY CONNECTING THEM TO 120 VOLTS. YOU WILL CAUSE A DIRECT SHORT CIRCUIT.

They heat and bend with current running thru them not with current applied to them.

Hope this helps and be careful.

 

[kakidd]

Thank You.

The machine was run all three times with racks in. just had a skillet and casserole in the third cycle which is when it started leaking.

 

[kakidd]

lower wash arm support

How do I know if it is intact and in good shape?

 

[chachp]

Pictures speak a thousand words..

Can you send a picture of your bottom rack?  I had this very problem with my first KDS-20 years ago.  Turns out the installers left the packing tabs on the back of the rack.  When they removed those the leak went away.  Seems it was putting just enough pressure on the door to cause the leak.  After that no more leak.  The leak was exactly like yours.  It would have to get into the 3rd of 4th fill before it started to leak.  They thought I was nuts but I made the guy sit there and watch and sure enough.  He opened the door and said "Here's your problem, you didn't remove all the packing materials."  I reminded him his company did the install so he should probably talk to his guys about it.

 

These are the tabs Steve is talking about.  Do you have these on your lower rack in both front corners?

 

[kakidd]

Yes, I do have those, they are shaped a little differently, more triangular but there. I ordered a new door seal and lower rack today so we'll see what happens. Thank you for the info!

 

[beekeyknee]

All great advise above. Determine if the main wash door on your dispenser isn't working because of mechanical or electrical problem. With the machine unplugged, and the door latched, take a small pointed tool and pull the bi-metal away from the white plastic catch. The door should snap open. If it doesn't it's mechanical. A little drop of light weight oil on the pivot point of that latch where the spring is might get it working again.

If it does snap open when you pull the bi-metal away it's electrical. Like mentioned above, check for corroded connectors. Sometimes they can be cleaned up if they're not too bad and sometimes they have to be replaced. If it's the latter, clip the connector off with a little pair of wire nippers and take it with you to the hardware store to get a matching size. Strip off the right amount of insulation off the wire and install the new connector. Try that and if it's no go let us know.

A good thing to always check is the tightness of the screws around the perimeter of the detergent dispenser. Make sure each screw is snug. Don't get carried away, just snug. You'll strip out the plastic.

 

[neptunebob]

Another source of a leak could just be a lot of crud at the bottom of the edge of the tub that the bottom of the door closes over. Take out the rack, open the door fully and look from the inside, I should warn you there is probably enough there to make you gag. Clean it all up, and a leak should stop and the machine may smell better too.

 

[kakidd]

Door seal

Thanks to all for all the tips. I have a couple of additional questions.

The main wash side does snap open when I pull the lever back so I assume it's electrical. I only see one screw holding the cardboard cover on and I removed it but the cover doesn't seem to want to come off. It is obviously quite brittle and a small piece came off. Is there a trick to getting these off?

I should have a new door seal waiting for me at home today. On the old one, I see the metal tabs that secure it across the top but nothing along the sides. How are the sides secured or are they?

 

[kakidd]

Door Seal Help

Got my new door seal today and noticed a few things. It appears that someone has tried to fill in some gaps, possibly to stop some leaks. I just want to confirm that this filler is not something factory. When I replace the door seal, is sealant required around the clips that attach it after it is installed or are the clips just supposed to push through the slots and that's it??

Thanks as always, I am determined to get this thing running with no leaks!

 

[stevet]

Factory!!

Yes, the machine was built with that filler and no, there is no sealant that goes on the clips. Your machine looks like it has needed a door seal for a long time so just install the new one and make sure it is even all the way around the tank. You may have to take it out and reposition it to fit nice and tight. Your machine was also old enough to still be built with a metal piece that sealed the door innards from the moisture that exits the machine when it dries. If it is missing or messed up, you can accomplish the same thing by applying a good foam insulating tape to the reinforcement that if sits over and remove the old metal seal.

Sounds like you will be ready to run this unit soon.

 

[kakidd]

Metal Piece that seals the door innards??

Not quite sure what that is. Is it the strip at the bottom of the door in the middle? It feels like plastic??

 

[barcoboy]

If the problem with the main wash door bi-metal was electrical, wouldn't the motor stop for the 90 seconds that the timer was trying to send power through the bi-metal to the motor?

 

[kakidd]

I don't know, I was told that if the door springs open when the cardboard lever is pressed, which it does, then it was electrical, not mechanical. The motor on the machine does not stop or pause during the main wash portion where it should open.

 

[beekeyknee]

The motor keeps running while the current is diverted through the bi-metal to heat it up which causes it to bend and release the latch. If the connections are good, you could put a clamp-on amp meter around <span style="text-decoration: underline;">one</span> of the wires leading to the main wash bi-metal and see if you get a reading.  If there's no reading the bi-metal may be bad.
 
Service manual says:  Condition: Detergent dispenser does not operate.
                                                       1. Dispenser shaft "frozen in housing. 1.1 Disassemble and clean shaft.
                                                       2. Torsion spring dissembled or broken. 2.1 Replace dispenser assembly.
                                                       3. Timer malfunctioning. 3.1 Replace timer
                                                       4. Bimetal unit not properly adjusted. 4.1 Adjust bimetal unit.
                                                       5. Inoperative bimetal unit. 5.1 Replace bimetal unit.
                                                       6. Low motor current. 6.1 Unclog fine strainer, check cleaner nozzel (hole on underneath side of 
                                                           hydro-sweep that sprays on fine strainer)

                                                           6.2 Check for low fill or oversudsing.

                                                       7. Drain valve open-foreign object. 7.1 Unclog drain valve or replace.

 

From what you've said it sounds like # 5 could be your problem. The clamp-on amp meter will tell if current is passing through. Don't know the value off hand. Keep your fingers crossed that it's not # 3. My suggestion of the drop of oil on the shaft is an alternative to # 1. It usually works and is easier than disassembling, but that doesn't sound like your problem. If there's water in the tank # 7's not your problem and for # 6 to be your problem, the filter would have to be extremely dirty. I'm guessing # 5 without seeing the machine.

 

The cardboard has nothing to do with it. It's just a protective cover. See the two little phillips head screws on the black bakelite on each side underneath the blue plastic detergent dispenser? I think if you take those out it will release the bimetal assembly and the cardboard will come off. Then there's two other tiny screws on each side of the bimetal piece that holds the bimetal to the bakelite with a little divider that sticks up between the two sides of the bimetal to keep the bimetal from touching so the current will go all the way through the bimetal to heat it up. If it touched at the bottom it would be a short and wouldn't work.

 

If I recall correctly, the screws that hold the bimetals to the bakelite are tiny phillips head screws. You will need a very small phillips s/d to work on these.

 

                                                          

[this post was last edited: 8/20/2014-23:21]