Pre-Test Advice Needed KDS18

[chachp]

Pictures speak a thousand words..

Can you send a picture of your bottom rack?  I had this very problem with my first KDS-20 years ago.  Turns out the installers left the packing tabs on the back of the rack.  When they removed those the leak went away.  Seems it was putting just enough pressure on the door to cause the leak.  After that no more leak.  The leak was exactly like yours.  It would have to get into the 3rd of 4th fill before it started to leak.  They thought I was nuts but I made the guy sit there and watch and sure enough.  He opened the door and said "Here's your problem, you didn't remove all the packing materials."  I reminded him his company did the install so he should probably talk to his guys about it.

 

These are the tabs Steve is talking about.  Do you have these on your lower rack in both front corners?

 

[kakidd]

Yes, I do have those, they are shaped a little differently, more triangular but there. I ordered a new door seal and lower rack today so we'll see what happens. Thank you for the info!

 

[beekeyknee]

All great advise above. Determine if the main wash door on your dispenser isn't working because of mechanical or electrical problem. With the machine unplugged, and the door latched, take a small pointed tool and pull the bi-metal away from the white plastic catch. The door should snap open. If it doesn't it's mechanical. A little drop of light weight oil on the pivot point of that latch where the spring is might get it working again.

If it does snap open when you pull the bi-metal away it's electrical. Like mentioned above, check for corroded connectors. Sometimes they can be cleaned up if they're not too bad and sometimes they have to be replaced. If it's the latter, clip the connector off with a little pair of wire nippers and take it with you to the hardware store to get a matching size. Strip off the right amount of insulation off the wire and install the new connector. Try that and if it's no go let us know.

A good thing to always check is the tightness of the screws around the perimeter of the detergent dispenser. Make sure each screw is snug. Don't get carried away, just snug. You'll strip out the plastic.

 

[neptunebob]

Another source of a leak could just be a lot of crud at the bottom of the edge of the tub that the bottom of the door closes over. Take out the rack, open the door fully and look from the inside, I should warn you there is probably enough there to make you gag. Clean it all up, and a leak should stop and the machine may smell better too.

 

[kakidd]

Door seal

Thanks to all for all the tips. I have a couple of additional questions.

The main wash side does snap open when I pull the lever back so I assume it's electrical. I only see one screw holding the cardboard cover on and I removed it but the cover doesn't seem to want to come off. It is obviously quite brittle and a small piece came off. Is there a trick to getting these off?

I should have a new door seal waiting for me at home today. On the old one, I see the metal tabs that secure it across the top but nothing along the sides. How are the sides secured or are they?

 

[kakidd]

Door Seal Help

Got my new door seal today and noticed a few things. It appears that someone has tried to fill in some gaps, possibly to stop some leaks. I just want to confirm that this filler is not something factory. When I replace the door seal, is sealant required around the clips that attach it after it is installed or are the clips just supposed to push through the slots and that's it??

Thanks as always, I am determined to get this thing running with no leaks!

 

[stevet]

Factory!!

Yes, the machine was built with that filler and no, there is no sealant that goes on the clips. Your machine looks like it has needed a door seal for a long time so just install the new one and make sure it is even all the way around the tank. You may have to take it out and reposition it to fit nice and tight. Your machine was also old enough to still be built with a metal piece that sealed the door innards from the moisture that exits the machine when it dries. If it is missing or messed up, you can accomplish the same thing by applying a good foam insulating tape to the reinforcement that if sits over and remove the old metal seal.

Sounds like you will be ready to run this unit soon.

 

[kakidd]

Metal Piece that seals the door innards??

Not quite sure what that is. Is it the strip at the bottom of the door in the middle? It feels like plastic??

 

[barcoboy]

If the problem with the main wash door bi-metal was electrical, wouldn't the motor stop for the 90 seconds that the timer was trying to send power through the bi-metal to the motor?

 

[kakidd]

I don't know, I was told that if the door springs open when the cardboard lever is pressed, which it does, then it was electrical, not mechanical. The motor on the machine does not stop or pause during the main wash portion where it should open.

 

[beekeyknee]

The motor keeps running while the current is diverted through the bi-metal to heat it up which causes it to bend and release the latch. If the connections are good, you could put a clamp-on amp meter around <span style="text-decoration: underline;">one</span> of the wires leading to the main wash bi-metal and see if you get a reading.  If there's no reading the bi-metal may be bad.
 
Service manual says:  Condition: Detergent dispenser does not operate.
                                                       1. Dispenser shaft "frozen in housing. 1.1 Disassemble and clean shaft.
                                                       2. Torsion spring dissembled or broken. 2.1 Replace dispenser assembly.
                                                       3. Timer malfunctioning. 3.1 Replace timer
                                                       4. Bimetal unit not properly adjusted. 4.1 Adjust bimetal unit.
                                                       5. Inoperative bimetal unit. 5.1 Replace bimetal unit.
                                                       6. Low motor current. 6.1 Unclog fine strainer, check cleaner nozzel (hole on underneath side of 
                                                           hydro-sweep that sprays on fine strainer)

                                                           6.2 Check for low fill or oversudsing.

                                                       7. Drain valve open-foreign object. 7.1 Unclog drain valve or replace.

 

From what you've said it sounds like # 5 could be your problem. The clamp-on amp meter will tell if current is passing through. Don't know the value off hand. Keep your fingers crossed that it's not # 3. My suggestion of the drop of oil on the shaft is an alternative to # 1. It usually works and is easier than disassembling, but that doesn't sound like your problem. If there's water in the tank # 7's not your problem and for # 6 to be your problem, the filter would have to be extremely dirty. I'm guessing # 5 without seeing the machine.

 

The cardboard has nothing to do with it. It's just a protective cover. See the two little phillips head screws on the black bakelite on each side underneath the blue plastic detergent dispenser? I think if you take those out it will release the bimetal assembly and the cardboard will come off. Then there's two other tiny screws on each side of the bimetal piece that holds the bimetal to the bakelite with a little divider that sticks up between the two sides of the bimetal to keep the bimetal from touching so the current will go all the way through the bimetal to heat it up. If it touched at the bottom it would be a short and wouldn't work.

 

If I recall correctly, the screws that hold the bimetals to the bakelite are tiny phillips head screws. You will need a very small phillips s/d to work on these.

 

                                                          

[this post was last edited: 8/20/2014-23:21]

 

[chachp]

I am learning alot reading this post.

It does make me wonder though why KitchenAid made this so complex.  Seems there are so many dependencies just to get the detergent door to pop open.  In the previous models (like my 15 series) is seems so much less complex.  It was pretty much self contained and all it needed was some current from the timer to get it to pop open.  Although in the 15 only one door has to open vs. two doors in the later models.  I wonder if it had something to do with that.

 

[kakidd]

Thanks All

Took the old door seal off last night and will install the new one today or tomorrow and re-test . Fingers crossed for no leaks

 

[kakidd]

Success/Happiness

I put the new door seal on last night and successfully ran two full normal wash cycles with no leaks. In addition to that, for whatever reason the main wash soap dispenser also opened!! There is still a small occasional drip from that appears to be coming from the soap dispenser, it drips from the metal pins on each of the soap cups, it's not significant but I don't know if it's a big deal or not.

I ordered what I thought were stainless panels to replace the white ones that were on the machine originally. Turns out they are just the upper and lower flat panels with no way to attach them. There must be some sort of trim kit required for them to slide into but not sure if that is available/obtainable or not. Anyone know??

I also noticed that the lower racks that I am finding online appear to be smaller than the original rusty one that is in there now. Specifically only 5 rows of tines on the right side compared to 7 rows on the one I have now. Did they change the design of these at some point?

Anyway, I think I am ready to put the machine in use in the kitchen very soon. Thanks to all for your great help and advice!

 

[danemodsandy]

Mark:

The stainless panels you found were intended for a KA model that has the "trim kit," which is a set of aluminum extrusions that form a frame around the door and the service panel. The extrusions are screwed to the edges of the panels; the stainless panels slip into the frame they form. This feature was called the "Vari-Front."

There are two ways to get a stainless look for your DW. One is to find a trim kit, either as NOS parts or by salvaging it off a parts machine. You'll have to drill holes in the edges of your existing panels for the screws yourself, or just swap panels.

The other way is to find the true stainless panels, which were available for some models. This is the entire outer panel, not just a flat piece, in stainless. I know the 15 series had these available - I'm looking for them. But I don't know about the 18 series. Perhaps others here will know.

Here's a page from the 15-series sales brochure, originally posted by Ben swestoyz. You can see that one model (the wood-fronted one) has the frame around the front panels, and others don't:

 

[beekeyknee]

Mark,

Here is a link to a post that was made years ago. At first I was reluctant to post this as there is a bit of a tiff between Sandy and I in the link but we're long since over it and helping you is the most important issue. It appears that I over reacted to Sandy's posts but the past is inviolate.

Click on the link and scroll down to the last reply - #20. If you continue to have problems with you're dispenser cups leaking this might help.

B.

KDS-18

So I've been a long time lurker here, but now I have a good reason to post! Recently, I was at an estate auction. The sale bill had listed a KitchenAid dishwasher for sale, but there weren't any pictures or other descriptions. I knew the person who was having the sale and I expected that they...

www.automaticwasher.org

 

[kakidd]

Yesterday's Testing

I wanted to try the Soak & Scrub and Sani Cycles so I did some additional testing yesterday in the garage. The Soak & Scrub cycle completed correctly and both soap dispensers opened on time with no problem . I also noticed only a couple of drips from the dispenser during the cycle. Is it possible that this leak would just correct itself?

One thing I noticed during testing on Friday and yesterday is that the machine seems to be overfilling after the first 2 or 3 fills. It was connected with a hose to the faucet of a slop sink and I had the hot water opened all the way. After the 2nd or 3rd fill, it adds additional water in short bursts until I assume that the float cuts it off. It also does not drain all of the water out after this happens. Could this be caused by having the hot water faucet opened up all the way?

Next I tried the Sani-Cycle. All went fine and it advanced to Sani and I could hear the water heating. It stayed in the Sani mode for quite awhile and I came into the house to refill my beverage . When I returned to the garage, the power to the machine was off and there was a puddle of water in front of the door. The machine was plugged into a GFI outlet with an extension cord and the breaker had tripped. I reset the breaker and pushed Cancel Drain but the GFI immediately blew again. I tried this two more times with the same result. The water in the machine was extremely hot along with the tank. I opened the door and decided to let things cool down. After about an hour, I plugged it back in, pushed Cancel Drain and it powered up and drained (it did take 3 Cancel Drains to empty the machine, I'm assuming because of the overfill). I disconnected the water hose and reconnected it turning the water on only about half way and ran two Rinse & Hold cycles and the machine did not add additional water after the initial fill cutoff and drained completely each time with no leaks.

Anyway, I have an installer scheduled for tomorrow to remove my current Bosch dishwasher and put the KA in. I would like your opinions on whether I should proceed or if are there other things I need to check?

Thank you as always for your help!

Mark

 

[DADoES]

 
There's apparently an obstruction somewhere in the outlet path.  Should not take 3 Cancel/Drain cycles to fully drain the water whether or not an overfill is involved.

The inlet valve has a flow washer that should allow the proper fill level on a wide range of supply pressures.

Seems that a leak occurred, something got wet and the GFI came into play.

 

[kakidd]

What should I check next?

Where should I check for the obstruction? The drain hose is clear but is there somewhere else I should check?

 

[beekeyknee]

Is the drain solenoid opening properly? Operate the valve by hand. Does it open and close easily? Is it noisy? You might want to cancel that installation until the machine is working properly.