oxydolfan1
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I'm devastated, sweetie.
Presidejt Gerald Ford, Dead at 93
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danemodsandy
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For Ford to pardon Nixon was the only way for what Ford termed "our national nightmare" to end, I feel. We had already been through enormous upheaval because of the Watergate revelations; more investigations and charges would have served little purpose except to make things worse.
The problem was: where would it all end? As everyone knows if they think about it, politics is an inherently corrupt business, even when it's headed by someone decent like Ford or Carter. If you begin real investigation, then you're going to bring the wheels of government to a screeching halt, because EVERYONE's up to their a** in favours and whatnot. I remind Ford's critics that we had one hell of a recession going on at the time, with out-of-control, galloping, double-digit inflation, plus the Cold War, plus Vietnam leftovers, plus Middle East trouble that was sending gas prices through the roof. We needed stability, and Ford's approach saw to it that we got it. The message was clear: "You guys have been out of control. That's over."
Whether you like Ford's decision to pardon Nixon or not, Ford took full responsibility for it to the end of his days, never once complaining or whining about being misunderstood. Gerald Ford knew from the moment he signed that pardon that he was giving his enemies all the ammunition they needed, and he did what he felt was right anyway. Ford endured a loss of the Presidency in the 1976 elections, then total humiliation in 1980 when his own party declined to nominate him to run again. Had Ford run in '80, he probably would have won; it wasn't like Carter had worked out well or anything.
You can love Ford or hate him. I think he was one of the two best Presidents we've had in my lifetime (the other is Harry Truman), and I'd give anything if we could see his brand of decency and integrity back in Washington again. Oh, and by the way- I'm a Democrat.
The problem was: where would it all end? As everyone knows if they think about it, politics is an inherently corrupt business, even when it's headed by someone decent like Ford or Carter. If you begin real investigation, then you're going to bring the wheels of government to a screeching halt, because EVERYONE's up to their a** in favours and whatnot. I remind Ford's critics that we had one hell of a recession going on at the time, with out-of-control, galloping, double-digit inflation, plus the Cold War, plus Vietnam leftovers, plus Middle East trouble that was sending gas prices through the roof. We needed stability, and Ford's approach saw to it that we got it. The message was clear: "You guys have been out of control. That's over."
Whether you like Ford's decision to pardon Nixon or not, Ford took full responsibility for it to the end of his days, never once complaining or whining about being misunderstood. Gerald Ford knew from the moment he signed that pardon that he was giving his enemies all the ammunition they needed, and he did what he felt was right anyway. Ford endured a loss of the Presidency in the 1976 elections, then total humiliation in 1980 when his own party declined to nominate him to run again. Had Ford run in '80, he probably would have won; it wasn't like Carter had worked out well or anything.
You can love Ford or hate him. I think he was one of the two best Presidents we've had in my lifetime (the other is Harry Truman), and I'd give anything if we could see his brand of decency and integrity back in Washington again. Oh, and by the way- I'm a Democrat.
exploder3211
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Play nice children...
We are all entitled to our own feelings/opinions and ideas...
Scott you stated yours and I fully accept that... If i where to have a beef with something or you with me i would hope you would email me privatly... I hope others would do this as well.. Even if my big mouth is posting here alot
I wasn't alive when he was in office, however i feel from what i have read heard and seen that he was as a great man later on in life, for the pardon of nixon..
I do admit that there will be quite a bit of coverage on this and money spent that could be spent else ware...
But then again we must have respect for those officals who step up to the plate and take the Title as President.. Its a tough job and it's very stressful.. Think about it, the secret service has to follow you around 24-7 365... Not something i would want...
Although I will not mourn the loss of either Pres. Bush Sr or the Current Bush, i will keep those thoughts to my self...
Clinton did a good job to a point, when he started screwing Monica, than he lost my respect...
Its all a game..
Ok.. Be nice
We are all entitled to our own feelings/opinions and ideas...
Scott you stated yours and I fully accept that... If i where to have a beef with something or you with me i would hope you would email me privatly... I hope others would do this as well.. Even if my big mouth is posting here alot
I wasn't alive when he was in office, however i feel from what i have read heard and seen that he was as a great man later on in life, for the pardon of nixon..
I do admit that there will be quite a bit of coverage on this and money spent that could be spent else ware...
But then again we must have respect for those officals who step up to the plate and take the Title as President.. Its a tough job and it's very stressful.. Think about it, the secret service has to follow you around 24-7 365... Not something i would want...
Although I will not mourn the loss of either Pres. Bush Sr or the Current Bush, i will keep those thoughts to my self...
Clinton did a good job to a point, when he started screwing Monica, than he lost my respect...
Its all a game..
Ok.. Be nice
Ford Deserves My Respect
I turned 19 in 1976, and had worked on Jerry Brown's presidential campaign in Nevada. That fall, I had to decide who to choose--Gerald Ford or Jimmy Carter. I almost voted for Ford, but ended up casting my ballot for Carter. (Four years later, unable to vote for Reagan, I chose John Anderson.)
Since that time, I have looked at the Ford legacy, read books and listened to historians. And I'm convinced that Ford was a good, decent president who came at a time when American needed decent leaders. Yes, he had his flaws (and he was the incubator for Cheney and Rumsfeld) but American could have been worse off if not for Ford, and his pardon of Richard Nixon. There was good reason Carter thanked Ford during his inaugural address for "all he has done to heal our land." That was no small accomplishment. For that, Gerald Ford deserves this Democrat's respect.
I turned 19 in 1976, and had worked on Jerry Brown's presidential campaign in Nevada. That fall, I had to decide who to choose--Gerald Ford or Jimmy Carter. I almost voted for Ford, but ended up casting my ballot for Carter. (Four years later, unable to vote for Reagan, I chose John Anderson.)
Since that time, I have looked at the Ford legacy, read books and listened to historians. And I'm convinced that Ford was a good, decent president who came at a time when American needed decent leaders. Yes, he had his flaws (and he was the incubator for Cheney and Rumsfeld) but American could have been worse off if not for Ford, and his pardon of Richard Nixon. There was good reason Carter thanked Ford during his inaugural address for "all he has done to heal our land." That was no small accomplishment. For that, Gerald Ford deserves this Democrat's respect.
Well he sure knew how to pick...................
A classy wife. I was saddened to learn of Former President Ford's death. Always a BIG CUDOS to Betty Ford, honesty with breast cancer and alcoholism. Candor that took a Heap of gutts in the 1970's, thats CLASS. Mrs. Ford and Family, are in my prayers. alr2903
A classy wife. I was saddened to learn of Former President Ford's death. Always a BIG CUDOS to Betty Ford, honesty with breast cancer and alcoholism. Candor that took a Heap of gutts in the 1970's, thats CLASS. Mrs. Ford and Family, are in my prayers. alr2903
mickeyd
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On the PBS Newshour tonight
four presidential historians discussed Ford's presidency. Every point Danemod made was cited by them. Here were the others
1. He wanted to heal the country
2. After the weirdness and paranoi and aristocracy of Johnson and Nixon, he was a breath of fresh air, "like having the man next door for president."
3. He restored dignity, honesty and respect to the presidency
4. Nixon leftovers consumer "25% of his time and 25% of his staff's time." That's a direct quote from Form with obvious pronoun changes.
5. The concensus of professional historical judgment is that the pardon was the right call, although very unpopular, and finally courageous
From me i loved him; so did the crew at Saturday Night Live. Chevy Chase obviously loved him too. All of their skits were hilarious, physical slap-stick and clearly affectionate.
He was athltetic, swam and skiied, though he had a few accidents, and would show up on TV with a few bandages, like white criss-cross ones.
Cerebral and meditative, he was often very deliberative and measured in his speech which most morons never see as a sign of intelligence.
He was first or fourth--I forget which-- in his class at Yale Law. How dumb is that? I got tears in my eyes today on my way from the Buffalo Washer Warehouse when i heard the news, weeping even though i had a beautiful visamatic in my friend's truck. That's how sad I was to hear that such a magnificent man was no longer among us.
Ross, how Cool, but you said Betty was beloved at ST.Margaret's What about Gerry?
four presidential historians discussed Ford's presidency. Every point Danemod made was cited by them. Here were the others
1. He wanted to heal the country
2. After the weirdness and paranoi and aristocracy of Johnson and Nixon, he was a breath of fresh air, "like having the man next door for president."
3. He restored dignity, honesty and respect to the presidency
4. Nixon leftovers consumer "25% of his time and 25% of his staff's time." That's a direct quote from Form with obvious pronoun changes.
5. The concensus of professional historical judgment is that the pardon was the right call, although very unpopular, and finally courageous
From me i loved him; so did the crew at Saturday Night Live. Chevy Chase obviously loved him too. All of their skits were hilarious, physical slap-stick and clearly affectionate.
He was athltetic, swam and skiied, though he had a few accidents, and would show up on TV with a few bandages, like white criss-cross ones.
Cerebral and meditative, he was often very deliberative and measured in his speech which most morons never see as a sign of intelligence.
He was first or fourth--I forget which-- in his class at Yale Law. How dumb is that? I got tears in my eyes today on my way from the Buffalo Washer Warehouse when i heard the news, weeping even though i had a beautiful visamatic in my friend's truck. That's how sad I was to hear that such a magnificent man was no longer among us.
Ross, how Cool, but you said Betty was beloved at ST.Margaret's What about Gerry?
oxydolfan1
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Regarding Mrs. Ford....
Agree with ALR heartily...it WAS a big deal for a woman of her time to deal with breast cancer and substance abuse in those days...not to mention the fact that she spoke out regarding womans' rights and reproductive issues without toeing the positions of the regressive right that were asserting themselves even then....
This is true.
Agree with ALR heartily...it WAS a big deal for a woman of her time to deal with breast cancer and substance abuse in those days...not to mention the fact that she spoke out regarding womans' rights and reproductive issues without toeing the positions of the regressive right that were asserting themselves even then....
This is true.
mickeyd
Well-known member
Jesus, I hope somebody sees me
It takes me forever to type. Damn Jesuits, they sent us off to college with no keyboarding whatsoever.
It takes me forever to type. Damn Jesuits, they sent us off to college with no keyboarding whatsoever.
oxydolfan1
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"We had already been through enormous upheaval because of the Watergate revelations; more investigations and charges would have served little purpose except to make things worse."
Except that attitude laid the future groundwork for further, similar atrocities.
It has become nothing for our government to lie to our people, to indeed lie to the world and misrepresent our true intents and purposes. It enabled an entire generation of Republican partisans (and a frightening number of their enablers on the Democratic side) to, indeed, KNOW that they would not be held accountable for their transgressions, going forward.
It was the prelude to the blatant usage of media-rich manufactured events as smokescreens, to preclude what was really going on (gas prices, anyone?)
It was the advent of the policy of the "unitary executive" and the idea that the president could, without any recourse, run rimshod over the Constitution and the will of the American people and dictate HIS twisted values (a concept created and nurtured, by the way, by Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld, who both used the Nixon debacle as their flimsy excuse).
Absolutely NOTHING improved by Ford concentrating on issues like gas prices or the Middle East. On the contrary, it was one ridiculous, foolhardy, irresponsible financial decision and capitulation after another (as I watched my neighborhood literally be burned down around me)...
Had impeachment proceedings proceeded as expected, at least a modicum of accountability and justice would have served as a message to future tyrants....as it stands, the shareholders and moneychangers ran free, until Clinton's sexcapades were deemed far more worthy of examination than the business of governance.
And look at what we are wallowing in now.
Ford's pardon may have allowed business interests to continue unfettered, but they certainly set the stage for the rest of the nation to fall into bitter divisiveness and one murderous, unjust rape of pillage of just about everyone and everything else America once stood for.
So let's just throw money at the coffin...it will make it all go down every bit as more smoothly.
That's the price of dubious ethics, without moral repentance.
Except that attitude laid the future groundwork for further, similar atrocities.
It has become nothing for our government to lie to our people, to indeed lie to the world and misrepresent our true intents and purposes. It enabled an entire generation of Republican partisans (and a frightening number of their enablers on the Democratic side) to, indeed, KNOW that they would not be held accountable for their transgressions, going forward.
It was the prelude to the blatant usage of media-rich manufactured events as smokescreens, to preclude what was really going on (gas prices, anyone?)
It was the advent of the policy of the "unitary executive" and the idea that the president could, without any recourse, run rimshod over the Constitution and the will of the American people and dictate HIS twisted values (a concept created and nurtured, by the way, by Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld, who both used the Nixon debacle as their flimsy excuse).
Absolutely NOTHING improved by Ford concentrating on issues like gas prices or the Middle East. On the contrary, it was one ridiculous, foolhardy, irresponsible financial decision and capitulation after another (as I watched my neighborhood literally be burned down around me)...
Had impeachment proceedings proceeded as expected, at least a modicum of accountability and justice would have served as a message to future tyrants....as it stands, the shareholders and moneychangers ran free, until Clinton's sexcapades were deemed far more worthy of examination than the business of governance.
And look at what we are wallowing in now.
Ford's pardon may have allowed business interests to continue unfettered, but they certainly set the stage for the rest of the nation to fall into bitter divisiveness and one murderous, unjust rape of pillage of just about everyone and everything else America once stood for.
So let's just throw money at the coffin...it will make it all go down every bit as more smoothly.
That's the price of dubious ethics, without moral repentance.
westyslantfront
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danemodsandy
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"Ford's pardon may have allowed business interests to continue unfettered, but they certainly set the stage for the rest of the nation to fall into bitter divisiveness and one murderous, unjust rape of pillage of just about everyone and everything else America once stood for."
Oxydolfan:
I have a feeling you weren't around when Ford took office, or were too young to remember it well.
What Ford did was to make the best of a bad situation, which is really about as much as you can expect of any politician in real life. Your moral outrage at what has happened post-Ford is quite justified, but if you expect much of anything to change, I assure you that's not going to happen. Ford's pardon of Nixon set a limit on a situation that was tearing the country apart. If the moral fibre you expect of leaders had been present after Ford's departure, the lesson of Watergate would have helped to ensure that we had better governance. That didn't happen, but that was hardly Ford's fault or doing. Fact is, politics is a dirty, dirty, DIRTY game, and the very best you can expect is that whoever you vote for won't be too much of a crook. Politicians with actual integrity are extremely rare, and when you get one, you cherish the memory.
You obviously have a lot of anger at the current Republican Administration, and I would be the last person on earth to argue with that. But if you think any good is done by impeachment proceedings, I remind you that Clinton was impeached. That action divided the country, permitted the Republicans to vilify Democrats from hell to breakfast, and set the stage for Gore's defeat. Had Clinton not been impeached, we might have had Gore leading us today.
Revenge is sweet- except for the consequences.
Oxydolfan:
I have a feeling you weren't around when Ford took office, or were too young to remember it well.
What Ford did was to make the best of a bad situation, which is really about as much as you can expect of any politician in real life. Your moral outrage at what has happened post-Ford is quite justified, but if you expect much of anything to change, I assure you that's not going to happen. Ford's pardon of Nixon set a limit on a situation that was tearing the country apart. If the moral fibre you expect of leaders had been present after Ford's departure, the lesson of Watergate would have helped to ensure that we had better governance. That didn't happen, but that was hardly Ford's fault or doing. Fact is, politics is a dirty, dirty, DIRTY game, and the very best you can expect is that whoever you vote for won't be too much of a crook. Politicians with actual integrity are extremely rare, and when you get one, you cherish the memory.
You obviously have a lot of anger at the current Republican Administration, and I would be the last person on earth to argue with that. But if you think any good is done by impeachment proceedings, I remind you that Clinton was impeached. That action divided the country, permitted the Republicans to vilify Democrats from hell to breakfast, and set the stage for Gore's defeat. Had Clinton not been impeached, we might have had Gore leading us today.
Revenge is sweet- except for the consequences.
oxydolfan1
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Are you seriously comparing the impeachment of President Clinton to that of Bush?
Really?
I don't deal in revenge. I deal in justice.
In previous times, most Americans believed in justice too.
Really?
I don't deal in revenge. I deal in justice.
In previous times, most Americans believed in justice too.
sudsdudeshane
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Gerald Ford
The passing of Gerald Ford is indeed the end of an era. During the 2004 election, Ford was quoted that "the republican party of today, was not his republican party"
he is also on record for not supporting the Iraq war.
Sadly, his passing is another loss of a centrist moderate republican. Though I am too young to remember his presidency,(I was born during Slick Dick Nixon's term). I do beleive he earned his right to a full state funeral and should be given the proper respect.
Oh and to Oxydolfan~ Don't waste your time bantering with Retromom. she is an extremely partisan republican and has a habit of attacking people on these boards who have a political view who differs with hers.
The passing of Gerald Ford is indeed the end of an era. During the 2004 election, Ford was quoted that "the republican party of today, was not his republican party"
he is also on record for not supporting the Iraq war.
Sadly, his passing is another loss of a centrist moderate republican. Though I am too young to remember his presidency,(I was born during Slick Dick Nixon's term). I do beleive he earned his right to a full state funeral and should be given the proper respect.
Oh and to Oxydolfan~ Don't waste your time bantering with Retromom. she is an extremely partisan republican and has a habit of attacking people on these boards who have a political view who differs with hers.
sudsdudeshane
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Rickr~
All in all, he was a good person, was a very intelligent man, and did the best job he could. We have had much worse, that is for sure.
Yes, we have had much worse..he currently occupies the White House. his name is George W Bush
All in all, he was a good person, was a very intelligent man, and did the best job he could. We have had much worse, that is for sure.
Yes, we have had much worse..he currently occupies the White House. his name is George W Bush
oxydolfan1
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Suds, thank you.
I know the enemy's ways. I know what we are up against.
One-third of the East Timorese population were slaughtered on Ford's concurrence. I'd rather focus on that fact, then protect some overindulged brat's future legacy.
Sorry, but that's my attitude.
I know the enemy's ways. I know what we are up against.
One-third of the East Timorese population were slaughtered on Ford's concurrence. I'd rather focus on that fact, then protect some overindulged brat's future legacy.
Sorry, but that's my attitude.
The link is to an article on Advocate.com that tells of Gerald Ford's support for equality before the law for gay and lesbian citizens. He was an advisor to the Republican Unity Coalition a gay-friendly GOP group. When he ran in 1976, the right wing of the Republican party forced him to choose Dole as his running mate and to abandon Nelson Rockefeller, who was his vice president and a republican moderate.
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www.advocate.com
oxydolfan1
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I was about to say that such a Republican could not exist today...but Giuliani could be said to have turned the same trick (although one could successfully argue that he was "tolerant" of gays, while subsequently attacking and undermining virtually every institution and enterprise that represented large segments of New York gay culture (nightlife, dance community, vital health institutions, etc.)
In fairness, I also do not remember Ford being much of a culture warrior or having much patience for evangelical pressure lobbies, even though his ties with neocon power vultures Cheney and Rumsfeld seemed to send a conflicting message....
Today's neoconservatives would have been denouncing him as "NCE" (Not Conservative Enough), if he had not been perceived as being too old to be any sort of a threat.
In fairness, I also do not remember Ford being much of a culture warrior or having much patience for evangelical pressure lobbies, even though his ties with neocon power vultures Cheney and Rumsfeld seemed to send a conflicting message....
Today's neoconservatives would have been denouncing him as "NCE" (Not Conservative Enough), if he had not been perceived as being too old to be any sort of a threat.
runematic
Well-known member
"Oh and to Oxydolfan~ Don't waste your time bantering with Retromom. she is an extremely partisan republican and has a habit of attacking people on these boards who have a political view who differs with hers."
talk about the pots calling the kettle black....
talk about the pots calling the kettle black....
westytoploader
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Oh my god! I'm utterly speechless
I can't believe it! Is this the same Oxydolfan1 that went ballistic after I stated that the punks who stole the iPod would get their justice as 'prison bitches' in the juvenile center? Talk about hypocrisy, especially when you have no feelings whatsoever for a former President! It seems that your respect for certain people is being diverted in the wrong direction; we need to fix that.
Sort of ironic claiming that people are trying to get you "tossed" from the club. You seem to only be doing that to yourself. Out of the 39 posts in this thread (including mine and the original announcement), eight of them have been yours. You've only been a poster for 3 months and already you seem to have offended many on this forum; one of these days you're going to slip and get yourself "flushed". Don't go digging an early grave, especially seeing as how the only thing you contribute are rants, raves, and insults. In simpler terms, I don't think it would be a difficult decision for Robert to ban you should you get even more out of control.
My two cents, over and out. Gerald Ford will be missed. Even though he was President WAY before my time, I have heard many positive things about him and will still show my proper respects over the coming days.
I can't believe it! Is this the same Oxydolfan1 that went ballistic after I stated that the punks who stole the iPod would get their justice as 'prison bitches' in the juvenile center? Talk about hypocrisy, especially when you have no feelings whatsoever for a former President! It seems that your respect for certain people is being diverted in the wrong direction; we need to fix that.
Sort of ironic claiming that people are trying to get you "tossed" from the club. You seem to only be doing that to yourself. Out of the 39 posts in this thread (including mine and the original announcement), eight of them have been yours. You've only been a poster for 3 months and already you seem to have offended many on this forum; one of these days you're going to slip and get yourself "flushed". Don't go digging an early grave, especially seeing as how the only thing you contribute are rants, raves, and insults. In simpler terms, I don't think it would be a difficult decision for Robert to ban you should you get even more out of control.
My two cents, over and out. Gerald Ford will be missed. Even though he was President WAY before my time, I have heard many positive things about him and will still show my proper respects over the coming days.
