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PROOF That H.E. Washers DON'T Save Water!
- Thread starter Chetlaham
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gusherb
Well-known member
What's less automatic about tossing ones clothes in, putting detergent in a drawer and pressing a button?
<blockquote>Maytag85: ...front loaders are automatic washers, but they aren't as automatic as a traditional top loader.</blockquote> Please explain in full detail to support your statement.
HELLO!!!
oh this ought to be a good one....
oh this ought to be a good one....
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1. Top loaders can get a fairly large load cleaned in about 30-35 minutes, or even less time than that.
2. Front loaders don't clean as well as a traditional top load washer.
3. Traditional top loaders are cheaper to buy, and are more reliable than a newer front loader.
4. Front loaders are difficult to repair, and require a lot of labor to repair.
5. You can use any detergent you want in a traditional top load washer.
6. Detergent choices are limited when you have a front loader, or any HE washer.
7. Top loaders plain work, and do what they are supposed to do.
2. Front loaders don't clean as well as a traditional top load washer.
3. Traditional top loaders are cheaper to buy, and are more reliable than a newer front loader.
4. Front loaders are difficult to repair, and require a lot of labor to repair.
5. You can use any detergent you want in a traditional top load washer.
6. Detergent choices are limited when you have a front loader, or any HE washer.
7. Top loaders plain work, and do what they are supposed to do.
And the "hide" option pays off yet again . . .
Maytag85, the points you listed are not related to the term automatic.
Taken for what the points are:
1) Maybe.
2) Both types can clean nicely but a frontloader that can do a profile wash by way of onboard water heating is hard for a toploader to beat.
3) Low-end toploaders are less cost but there are low- and mid-line frontloaders that cost less than the highly-respected SQ toploaders.
4) Not always.
5) True.
6) Limited to an increasingly lesser degree being that non-HE detergents seem to be disappearing from the market.
7) Both types perform the intended function.
Have I entered the religious washer war thread? Top vs Front!!
Not very many of those points hold up and a front loader with recirculation can typically do a full load in about an hour or so.
They absolutely do clean very well. There’s really no debate on that one.
Also how are they “less automatic” ?
In some ways they’re *more* automatic, as they can do things like dispense pre wash detergent, main wash detergent and softener automatically as standard. Most of them also have endless cycle options compared to typical top load machines.
My experience of both types is that top loaders are fast but don’t necessarily wash as well and definitely cannot be loaded as densely, due to the washing motion needing to suspend the clothes in water.
Also I found TL machines I’ve used (in the US and here) much rougher on clothes. I got pilling on clothes I’ve never had in a front loader.
Both systems work but I would say the only advantage of top loaders is cycle speed.
Front loaders are definitely more water efficient and definitely can wash far more effectively and gently, but use significantly longer cycles to do so.
But each to their own! I wouldn’t really like a TL machine as I find them too rough on some of my favorite items.
Not very many of those points hold up and a front loader with recirculation can typically do a full load in about an hour or so.
They absolutely do clean very well. There’s really no debate on that one.
Also how are they “less automatic” ?
In some ways they’re *more* automatic, as they can do things like dispense pre wash detergent, main wash detergent and softener automatically as standard. Most of them also have endless cycle options compared to typical top load machines.
My experience of both types is that top loaders are fast but don’t necessarily wash as well and definitely cannot be loaded as densely, due to the washing motion needing to suspend the clothes in water.
Also I found TL machines I’ve used (in the US and here) much rougher on clothes. I got pilling on clothes I’ve never had in a front loader.
Both systems work but I would say the only advantage of top loaders is cycle speed.
Front loaders are definitely more water efficient and definitely can wash far more effectively and gently, but use significantly longer cycles to do so.
But each to their own! I wouldn’t really like a TL machine as I find them too rough on some of my favorite items.
And I think I am being misunderstood again as my posts are getting fewer likes then those below me. I will be very blunt: FRONT LOAD, AND TOP LOAD WASHERS ON HE SETTINGS, USE FAR LESS WATER. I'm on your side guys. I come in agreement 
I know, y'all came back to read this, just for a good laugh!!!...
that wasn't an opinion, that was a FACT ! ! !.....
that wasn't an opinion, that was a FACT ! ! !.....
I say a real test with a laundry tub is in order.
cfz2882
Well-known member
laundry tub test
I use a laundry tub,and a few weeks back swapped my '82 SQ marathon(classic traditional top load)for 2010 VMW Cabrio(topload HE washplate unit)and discovered the cabrio uses a little less than half the water as the SQ running a load that would be considered large in the smaller capacity vintage SQ.similar size load in the '01 He3 frontload discharged ~20-30%less drainwater than the cabrio.The cabrio will deliver impressive wash results as long as load large enough to get good circulation.Cabrio generates plenty of lint though,a little more than the SQ and a lot more than the He3
I use a laundry tub,and a few weeks back swapped my '82 SQ marathon(classic traditional top load)for 2010 VMW Cabrio(topload HE washplate unit)and discovered the cabrio uses a little less than half the water as the SQ running a load that would be considered large in the smaller capacity vintage SQ.similar size load in the '01 He3 frontload discharged ~20-30%less drainwater than the cabrio.The cabrio will deliver impressive wash results as long as load large enough to get good circulation.Cabrio generates plenty of lint though,a little more than the SQ and a lot more than the He3
And that is something you should have put on Youtube. I think thats what will really tell the truth.
cfz2882
Well-known member
Forgot to mention...
these 3 machines all ran similar wash times:53 min. cabrio,45 He3,and SQ probably ~45 min.
these 3 machines all ran similar wash times:53 min. cabrio,45 He3,and SQ probably ~45 min.
Sean (Maytag85) said: "I've said this before, but top loads will always be the true and althentic automatic washer.
Yes, front loaders are automatic washers, but they aren't as automatic as a traditional top loader.
And then offered more statements:
"1. Top loaders can get a fairly large load cleaned in about 30-35 minutes, or even less time than that.
2. Front loaders don't clean as well as a traditional top load washer.
3. Traditional top loaders are cheaper to buy, and are more reliable than a newer front loader.
4. Front loaders are difficult to repair, and require a lot of labor to repair.
5. You can use any detergent you want in a traditional top load washer.
6. Detergent choices are limited when you have a front loader, or any HE washer.
7. Top loaders plain work, and do what they are supposed to do."
Not sure exactly what he means by "authentic", but let's just say that the *original* or *first* automatic washer was the Bendix front loader.
As for "you can use any detergent with a toploader", I would like to point out that no, you can't. And if you want to, ask anyone who lives in say, South America, to send you a little of their standard detergents. It will foam up so much that suds will flow between the top of the tub and the machine housing, usually causing problems with machines that have unprotected parts, like electric motors. What Sean does not know is that even "standard" "high-sudsing" detergents like Tide sold in the last 25 years in US are actually "controlled suds" detergents. When you try a detergent that has *no* suds suppression agents you will see very quickly that you need the scoop of detergent to clean clothes, but without suds suppression, even with a toploader, you won't be able to add even 1/2 a scoop. And it won't clean worth a damn.
What you have been witnessing in US is weakly controlled suds vs. heavy controlled suds for frontloaders. And to be honest, Sean, you will be even happier, top- or front-loading, when you finally try zero suds detergents. *Then* you can use enough to clean and get everything rinsed. But your "thesis" that one can use *any* detergent with toploaders is crap. I spent years in South America paying much more for a controlled suds detergent (Skip) because the "standard" detergents either caused machines to malfunction or didn't rinse, forcing you to repeat the rinse cycle multiple times. You have no idea what the heck you are talking about.
I will not address the other points individually -- I think it suffices to say that I have *many* friends who go to Pennsic every year. (See link below.) The ones that have frontloaders just do their laundry in their own homes with their own equipment. The ones that have toploaders usually ask people like me if they can come over after Pennsic and spend a day doing laundry in our home, where they not only will do half the loads, because the frontloaders are much larger than their toploaders, but also they get the clothes cleaner without *any* more work than putting the clothes in, loading detergent and pressing "start".
Sean, we're not saying that you *have* to like frontloaders, in fact you are allowed to hate them and love your toploader(s).
But if you are gonna spread misinformation, you will have a hard time, because we are tired of hearing dozens of lies everyday on the fake news and tweets that a certain citizen and his cronies are subjecting us to.
It's a scientific fact that can be proven over and over and over again, and my friends know it: toploaders were great improvement in the 40's and 50's and they are nice to have for anyone who needs clothes that are not very dirty washed clean. But if you have *very* dirty clothes, you will be *much* better off *nowadays* if you can wash them in a HE machine -- and currently they offer both top loading and front loading HE washers, take your pick.
Cheers,
-- Paulo.
Yes, front loaders are automatic washers, but they aren't as automatic as a traditional top loader.
And then offered more statements:
"1. Top loaders can get a fairly large load cleaned in about 30-35 minutes, or even less time than that.
2. Front loaders don't clean as well as a traditional top load washer.
3. Traditional top loaders are cheaper to buy, and are more reliable than a newer front loader.
4. Front loaders are difficult to repair, and require a lot of labor to repair.
5. You can use any detergent you want in a traditional top load washer.
6. Detergent choices are limited when you have a front loader, or any HE washer.
7. Top loaders plain work, and do what they are supposed to do."
Not sure exactly what he means by "authentic", but let's just say that the *original* or *first* automatic washer was the Bendix front loader.
As for "you can use any detergent with a toploader", I would like to point out that no, you can't. And if you want to, ask anyone who lives in say, South America, to send you a little of their standard detergents. It will foam up so much that suds will flow between the top of the tub and the machine housing, usually causing problems with machines that have unprotected parts, like electric motors. What Sean does not know is that even "standard" "high-sudsing" detergents like Tide sold in the last 25 years in US are actually "controlled suds" detergents. When you try a detergent that has *no* suds suppression agents you will see very quickly that you need the scoop of detergent to clean clothes, but without suds suppression, even with a toploader, you won't be able to add even 1/2 a scoop. And it won't clean worth a damn.
What you have been witnessing in US is weakly controlled suds vs. heavy controlled suds for frontloaders. And to be honest, Sean, you will be even happier, top- or front-loading, when you finally try zero suds detergents. *Then* you can use enough to clean and get everything rinsed. But your "thesis" that one can use *any* detergent with toploaders is crap. I spent years in South America paying much more for a controlled suds detergent (Skip) because the "standard" detergents either caused machines to malfunction or didn't rinse, forcing you to repeat the rinse cycle multiple times. You have no idea what the heck you are talking about.
I will not address the other points individually -- I think it suffices to say that I have *many* friends who go to Pennsic every year. (See link below.) The ones that have frontloaders just do their laundry in their own homes with their own equipment. The ones that have toploaders usually ask people like me if they can come over after Pennsic and spend a day doing laundry in our home, where they not only will do half the loads, because the frontloaders are much larger than their toploaders, but also they get the clothes cleaner without *any* more work than putting the clothes in, loading detergent and pressing "start".
Sean, we're not saying that you *have* to like frontloaders, in fact you are allowed to hate them and love your toploader(s).
But if you are gonna spread misinformation, you will have a hard time, because we are tired of hearing dozens of lies everyday on the fake news and tweets that a certain citizen and his cronies are subjecting us to.
It's a scientific fact that can be proven over and over and over again, and my friends know it: toploaders were great improvement in the 40's and 50's and they are nice to have for anyone who needs clothes that are not very dirty washed clean. But if you have *very* dirty clothes, you will be *much* better off *nowadays* if you can wash them in a HE machine -- and currently they offer both top loading and front loading HE washers, take your pick.
Cheers,
-- Paulo.
