Protect yourself and your appliances ---Check your wiring!

[mattl]

Just thought I'd pass this along. for those of you that are handy and even for those that aren't it might make sense to hire someone to do a rudimentary check of your wiring.

Here's a story of what I found. I use X10 to control some lighting year round and a lot during the holidays. It can be flaky at times and little things can cause problems, but all in all it's a cheap effective way to control lots of things. I upgraded my software, my computer controls all the lights, and some of the modules were acting up. I decided as I was cleaning house to inspect and replace the outlets in each room. In late December the house will be 45 years old, we moved in when I was a little kid, and some of the outlets were sloppy. Over the years I replaced a few here and there but not many.

Anyway I found that several had the ground wire unattached to the metal box, so the outlet was not grounded, and some had broken ground wires. All were simply wired by pushing the wires into the back of the plug, nothing wrong with that, but I prefer to pigtail and wire-nut my connections so if there is a problem with the outlet the rest of the circuit is intact. Most I replaced the outlet, but some I just inspected.

In my kitchen I looked at one outlet and found some tape wrapped around the black feed, but other than that it looked fine. I pushed the outlet back into the box and moved on to the next one. About half and hour later I went to the fridge to get something and noticed it was not running. I thought, what did I do...

Checked the circuit breaker and it was fine, checked the outlets I worked on and they seemed fine, I pulled the one with a bit of tape on the wire out and it looked fine too. Nothing showed up as a problem. Went back and pulled the first outlet on the circuit apart for the third time, this was the one with a bit of tape on the wires and found that the wire was actually broken INSIDE the insulation! Apparently it had been for years, that is whey the tape was on the wire. It arced and burned the insulation off. Now, since the house was built in '65 they only ran one circuit for the entire kitchen. The fridge, all the counter outlets and some of the perimeter outlets were on one 20 amp circuit. So the current to the fridge, coffee pot and the electric grill or waffle iron all passed through this broken wire. Luckily there never was a fire.

This has prompted me to be a bit more aggressive and check each outlet in the house. I also tightened down all the connections in my circuit panel, quite a few were loose. At some point I will split up that circuit, adding 2 more circuits. Of course if you are not comfortable working around electricity this is not for you, but I encourage everyone to have their wiring inspected at some point if it is older home...

 

[cfz2882]

missing grounds

one person once told me about going to help a friend modify
a porch railing-he brought a old cast aluminum circular saw
along and when he plugged it in and pulled the trigger,he was
getting shocked off the saw and couldn't let go of it!-he
tried to throw the saw loose but couldn't-had to run with it
untill it came unplugged.he checked the outlet and there was
no ground wire...

 

[lordkenmore]

Checking is not a bad idea.

The house I grew up in was built in the 50s. Most outlets were the old 2 prong type, but there were many that were 3 prong. We never thought anything of it, and assumed all was OK. When I got my first computer, I got a power strip that had "Ground OK" light. I don't know what prompted me, but I went through the house testing the outlets. And discovered that of all the "grounded" outlets, only ONE was actually properly grounded.

I also found that using an adapter for 3 prong to 2 prong did not work properly--at least one outlet. Even hooked up according to directions, the ground was non-existent. For that one outlet (used for my computer), I rigged up a ground line to a cold water pipe. It worked.

Since that time, I've been very conscious of ground connections.

Another issue that can--apparently--come up is having the live and neutral connections in an outlet reversed. This too could be a huge safety problem.

 

[lordkenmore]

Another thought that comes to me while talking about electric safety. Certain brands of circuit breaker panel are said to be problematic.

Link to article about one brand of concern, Federal Pacific:

http://www.2wireelectric.com/FPE.htm

 

[lordkenmore]

Another problematic panel is alleged to be Zinsco/Sylvania:

Zinsco Electrical Panel Hazards Zinsco Circuit Breaker Information

Zinsco Electrical Panel and Circuit Breaker Hazards, Failures, Inspection, Detection, Repair, Replacement History of Zinsco,Sylvania electrical panel hazards,distribution of Zinsco electric panels,how to identify Zinsco,Sylvania electric panel hazards,licensed electrician,sources of...

www.inspectapedia.com

 

[sudsmaster]

Oh, the old Federal Pacific story.

Yeah, as time went on the quality went down and they started failing. But the ones in my place - installed in the 60's, are fine with no sign of arcing and I know from experience that they trip when they are supposed.

If I were to replace them it would be with Square-D. They seem to make a good enough quality and reasonably priced product with lots of configuration options.

By the by, the brand now showcased at Home Depot, Murray, just got a huge recall for fire hazards.

On the wiring of outlets... I initially didn't like the push-thru back connections, but I've gotten more comfortable with them to the point where I generally trust them more than the side/screw connections, which are much more difficult to wire securely and can come loose even more so than the push-thru type, and which leave more of an exposed hot conductor than the back push-thru does.

Now, X-10? Isn't that a Microsoft product? Do we need to say more? ;-)

 

[lordkenmore]

Unfortunately, even if a specific Federal Pacific service panel is OK, there still is that bad perception, which can cause problems. I heard from a guy at Ace (who seems to know something about electrical stuff) that there are people in my area who've done changes to their electric system that has resulted in needing an inspection. The inspector spots Federal Pacific, and immediately decrees that that, in addition to whatever work was done that required the inspection, the panel must go. Adding X dollars--unexpectedly. The guy at Ace has an electrician friend whose garage is FULL of Federal Pacific panels & parts because of incidents like this. (One wonders if the inspectors aren't possibly getting a kickback from electricians....)

Still, if I owned a home with Federal Pacific, I wouldn't replace it just because it's Federal Pacific. It would get replace if and only if there was a good reason for my particular circumstances.

 

[lordkenmore]

By the by, the brand now showcased at Home Depot, Murray, ju

In my more cynical moments, I think maybe anything showcased at any huge mega store might be a little suspect....

Possibly what we should do is go back to fuse boxes. The simpler design SHOULD mean that there is less that can go wrong, and thus won't fail when they are needed.

Of course, an updated fuse design for more safety conscious days might be in order. Something that plugs/pops/screws into an opening too small for fingers.

 

[sudsmaster]

Something that plugs/pops/screws into an opening too small f

Or too small for pennies? A favorite way among the masses to "fix" a blown glass fuse. Never did it myself, highly dangerous, but then those were the days.

I suppose there is a reason why HD replaced Square D with Murray. More perceived profit in selling an inferior product to a customer base that doesn't know better.

 

[tolivac]

"Safety" fuses were supposed to prevent the penny behind the fuse-the Safety fuse socket is too small for a penny to be put behind it-and the safety fuse sockets were designed so only a specific fuse value can be used in them-15A or 20A.The fuse bases were slightly differtent so they couldn't be interchanged-I am glad the fuse system is largely gone-breakers are for the most part better and safer.Oh yes-the FP breaker alerts may be overblown-I have had and have known others who have FP panels and have had not a lick of problems with them.Seen them in businesses too-radio stations.

 

[mattl]

X-10

I'm not aware of Microsoft having ANY connection to X-10. X-10 has been around for decades, it uses a signal superimposed over the power lines to control various modules. It's a cheap and dirty method, over the years there are much more stable ways of accomplishing what it does, but none are as cheap. Dimming lamp modules can be had for $3-$4, computer software for $10-$40.

For me, it does what it does well enough that I won't spend the $$ to upgrade to new tech. It will track sundown times and turn on lights or what ever at dusk, and off at dawn or whenever. You can get modules to control your thermostat and turn the heat up via a phone call, use security cameras and all sorts of things. There really are a vast array of things it can do.

 

[lordkenmore]

The penny behind the fuse trick was one thing I was thinking of when talking about improved safety.

A system that only allows the right size of fuse to be installed (as in what safety fuses) is also a good idea. That might have been a real help for my parents. When I was young, we lived in a house with a real fuse box. Someone was paranoid about the safety of the system--probably having heard too many stories about someone using pennies or a way too large fuse--and so apparently the fuse choice was very conservative, with fuses probably smaller than what the circuit was designed for. Better safe than sorry, I guess, although apparently my parents spent a great deal of time in the basement changing fuses.

 

[mattl]

I do my own wiring, in MI I can, and I always over wire. Many more outlets than code calls for, I place outlets the way people live, not 12' apart as per code, and as a consequence I have many more circuits in the house. In a moderate sized kitchen I'd at least have 2 20 Amp circuits for counter-top appliances, plus a circuit for the fridge. Perhaps after the holidays I'll go about splitting my kitchen circuit up.

I always chuckle about how some people are so proud they wired to code. Code is just a minimum standard, so I have little respect for stuff that is done to code. To me it means doing the lest amount possible.

 

[cornutt]

Most of you guys probably already know this, but you can buy a gadget at the big-box stores that you plug into an outlet and it has a set of lights that light up and tell you if the outlet is wired properly. Back in the '80s, I played in a bar band in South Florida. I was the band's resident electrician and I checked all the outlets in any venue we went to before I would let anyone plug anything in. You'd be stunned at how many miswired outlets clubs have in them. Every club owner in the world thinks they're an electrician.

I would not trust any of the Federal Pacific Stab-Lok models. They have several problems, but the biggest one is a known, well-documented problem with the double-pole breakers. If the connected circuit ever has a fault on one leg only, when the breaker tries to trip, it will jam internally. Once it is in that state, it will never trip again, and it cannot be shut off manually -- the handle will move to the "OFF" position but the breaker is still closed. This latent condition cannot be detected externally and may go unnoticed for years.

Fuses aren't as fail-safe as some people think. I've seen a fuse panel in a home where the service was hit by lightning. Several of the fuses in the panel exploded. The homeowner was lucky the house didn't burn down. And of course a fuse won't protect you from a ground fault.

Interesting the bit about Home Depot... the ones around here all still sell Square D, and I haven't seen any of them featuring Murray, although I have seen that brand on the shelves.

 

[circlew]

Electrical goods

The recent circuit breaker recall involves breakers and panels made by Siemens (successor to ITE) and sold under the Siemens and Murray labels. These products were made between June and August of this year. The problem seems to be that a spring clip that holds the breaker in place can fail, causing it to make poor contact with the busbar, resulting in overheating. The affected products were made in Mexico. The house I presently am living in has a Siemens panel that is several years old. It's OK, but not the quality that the old ITE panels were.

The house I'm renovating has two panels - an FPE that was installed in August '73, and a Cutler-Hammer that was put in sometime in the early 80's. A couple of the FPE breakers got weak after a few years, and wouldn't hold the rated load without tripping. Also, one time I flipped the main breaker handle to off, and it failed to disconnect the load. Turned it back to on, then off again, sucessfully that time. I do not trust this panel, and it will be torn out and thrown in the garbage very soon. The C-H has never had any problems, and the better quality is obvious as the breakers fit much better, and the enclosure is sturdier. It gets to stay. All the new equipment, including the 400 amp distribution panel, will be Eaton Cutler-Hammer, with type CH load centers - all USA made. Eaton also sells type BR (old Bryant design) panels and breakers, but these are lower priced and made in Mexico. They lack the copper busbar that is standard in the premium CH series.

As far as wiring devices (switches and receptacles) go, there is a big difference in quality, even within the same manufacturer. They are offered in several grades - residential, specification, industrial and hospital (hosp. grade is receptacles only). I've found Pass & Seymour, Hubbell and Leviton to be the best quality overall. I'll be using P&S specification grade decorator devices in most locations. They are somewhat more costly, but hold up better long term. Hospital grade is best, but very expensive for home use. P&S and Leviton offer receptacles that have a connector that is installed first, and then the receptacle is snapped onto it after painting is done. I would have liked to try this, but they aren't yet offered in tamper-resistant styles that the code now requires in residential occupancies. (Update - just checked the P&S online catalog, and they've been added!)

I prefer to buy my electrical goods from an electric supply place, rather than a big box store. The selection is far superior, and the price little if any higher on most items. I plan to get started on the wiring of the house sometime soon after the holidays, as that has to be done before insulation can be installed.[this post was last edited: 12/14/2010-00:50]

 

[appliguy]

All this talk about service panels makes me wonder....how d

I live in a condo that was built in 1978 nad I have the original GE service panel in my kitchen....did GE make good quality panels at that time? I did have to have one breaker replaced ..but it weas the GFI breaker for the bathroom (that was also a GE switch as well). I found it odd that the test button was on the switch in the panel instead of on the outlet in the bathroom. I had it repalced because when I hit the test button the breaker would not go off like it was supposed to. I had it replaced with a regular breaker switch and had a GFI outlet put in the bathroom. Do you think that was wise? PAT COFFEY

 

[mattl]

The GFI breaker is better in one way -- the entire circuit is protected. When you replaced it with a GFI outlet, only the outlet and perhaps outlets downstream from it are protected. I say "perhaps" because it all depends on how it was wired in...

 

[cornutt]

From what I've seen, GE panels are considered OK. The GFI circuit breaker is just an alternative to the GFI outlet. For some reason GFI breakers are usually more expensive, so most electricians use GFI outlets. I have one GFI breaker in my house; it's on a 20A circuit for the whirlpool tub. The main reason I did this is because the outlets for the tub are hard to get to.