Question about 1.6 gal. toilets

[animasinsulinpu]

Hi, all. I was reading about toilets that said the 1.6 gal toilets are not good for houses that are older than 30 yrs. because pipes in these houses are larger than newer homes and these toilets could cause bad clogs. Is this true? My toilets are 3 gal and all works well. Thanks for your info.

 

[kb0nes]

In the past couple years I have installed three Eljer 1.6 or 1.3 GPF toilets in earlier homes with 4" drains. None of those have had any issues that I have yet seen with clogs. For low water usage these toilets have amazing flush efficiency. They WELL outperform the 2.5 GPF fixtures they replaced. They all have a long trap design with a jet siphon and I was amazed when I first saw them work.

If you do stay with higher GPF units there are some dual flush retrofit flush valve kits that can reduce consumption for liquid only flushes.

 

[circlew]

One of the most important issues is that the drain lines are properly sloped. Horizontal sections are recommended to have 1/4" slope per foot of run.

 

[rp2813]

Why would a 4" line have a greater tendency to clog than a 3" one?  I would have thought it would be just the opposite.

 

We've had a 1.25 gpf American Standard "Cadet" model for a year and a half and it's been fine, and no clogs, ever.  This house was built in 1927.

 

[dustin92]

Our house is 64 years old (1950), and for at least the last 20 years there has been 1.6 gallon toilets in both bathrooms. Never any real problems with the plumbing, just the toilets themselves needing use of the plunger occasionally when someone uses too much paper.

 

[mattl]

That is due to poor design of the toilet. Mine never plug.

Low flush toilets are not an issue in my older home.

 

[wayupnorth]

I have one of those Eljer 1.6 toilets with the 1 gallon plastic bottle flush that is worthless. It clogs at least once a year and it takes extra water to give a complete flush every time, if not more. Granted it is almost 20 years old and is on the list for this year to be replaced. My hard well water has eaten the inside out and stains cant be scrubbed out. Hate the thought of replacing it because trying to get that stupid wax gasket perfect without leaking is not easy,

 

[neptunebob]

Why would a 4" line have a greater tendency to clog than

It has to do with the fact that a liquid flowing through a smaller circular area would have more velocity, thus a 3" pipe would be "self scouring" as long as it is now overwhelmed.

There are now new rubber gaskets that can be used instead of the traditional wax ones and also some wax ones have a plastic cone to help line them up with the flange.

 

[kb0nes]

Tim, Eljer must have changed something in the past 20 years, the new models I installed all flush with impressive performance, I've never double flushed once!

The wax ring is indeed an old antiquated system, but unless the toilet was unstable I have never had one leak. I have always bought the Oatey No-seep rings though, these are the ones with the plastic funnel that directs the water away from the seal. Be sure to shim the toilet to eliminate any rocking and NEVER caulk the fixture to the floor as that obscures any possible leakage!

 

[washer111]

Some of the Caroma Dual Flush models of this capacity I've used are HORRENDOUS. Firstly, you push the flush button and expect the toilet to flush itself. WRONG. YOU have to hold the button to get the flush to work, otherwise, it will not flush itself. 

 

I personally prefer the older Dual-Flush models that keep flushing until they reach the pre-programmed "stop" level or run out of water. The older models here are also 3 gallon, and I've observed the half-flush on these. In reality, they are about a ¾ flush, not ½, due to the position of the openable box that determines the type of flush. 

 

Our current toilets are Full-Flush 3 Gallon models by Armitage-Shanks (1980's style). One uses a counterweight to control flush, the other (used to) use a suction-disk. The latter one broke, so its now easier to control your flushing to suit. Half flush is enough for everything, but I always use full for those as it ensures the waste is actually removed from the house's pipes, not just pushed out of site to clog the drain as more accumulates (I don't know if there is any truth to that theory). 

 

[jeffg]

"NEVER caulk the fixture to the floor as that obscures any possible leakage!"

You can and should caulk toilets to the floor. A 1-2" gap in the caulk behind the toilet is all you need to expose water leaks.

 

[NYCWriter]

Meh ...

Nothing compares to the good ol' "flushometer" toilets you'll still find (thank God) in New York City prewar apartments:

 

[firedome]

well some folks might prefer to reduce water consumption...

and while early models were less than stellar in performance, newer ones work as well or better than any older high consumption types. We have 1.3 & 1.6 Kohler in 2 NY houses and in VT (on septic right next to the lake) and have had no problems whatsoever.

 

[jeffg]

I agree with Roger. It's one of the few things where older isn't better in many or most cases. Several months ago we put in two Toto Drake toilets (air assisted flush), the plumber's helpers have been retired. A 3" trap makes all the difference.

 

[wayupnorth]

My 20 year old Eljer is essentially an old style water hog model. It saves water by only filling what looks like a 1 gallon plastic jug in the center of the tank and it lets just that amount of water do the flushing. Yes, the first water savers were far from good performers. Neighbors had the same model as mine and they replaced it last year with a new Kohler that works wonderful.

 

[circlew]

My sister has an Eljer toilet that was installed when they renovated their house back in '94, and it has to be the worst one I've ever seen. I had worked at a plumbing distributor that sold Eljer, so I knew how bad they were. I tried to talk them out of it, but they chose Eljer bath fixtures anyway. They have replaced the sink, as the enamel popped off the cast iron in several spots (also a problem I was aware of, and warned them of), but the toilet is still there. I can't think of any time I've been there that it hasn't clogged.

The guest/party house has Kohler fixtures that were installed when it was built in '97, and the toilet in there works great.

Eljer became part of American-Standard several years ago, and has improved a lot since.

 

[vintagekitchen]

Tim....

Your hard water shouldn't have had any ability to eat through the porcelain finish of the bowl, causing stains. That rough cruddy looking finish you are seeing is actually water deposits.

I moved into a house with extremely hard well water, and the toilet bowl looked like there was no porcelain at all left because it had ssuch a build up of ugly water deposits. But I fixed it.

Clean the toilet thoroughly with bleach, flush it a time or 2, put on rubber gloves, and get yourself a pumice stone. They sell bars of pumice stone scrubbers in the cleaning section of walmart and similar stores. Depp out some of the water, to make scrubbing easier, keep the stone wet, and scrub for all you are worth. Before you know it, all the deposits will be gone, and you will be left with smooth flawless porcelain again.

 

[beekeyknee]

Use toilet cleaner with high acid content occasionally to remove hard water and uric build up.

 

[arbilab]

My last 2 (rented) lowflows have worked well. I've seen them in friends' houses that won't suck down a kleenex.

After trying several with negligible results I got a bowl cleaner called "The Works". And it did, on rented toilets with heinous mineral buildup. It's not overpriced either.