Question about 1.6 gal. toilets

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Given the torque moment, a wall mount into wood WILL warp. The toilet plus its occupant weigh something like 400 pounds at almost a 3 foot arm or 1200 foot pounds.

Flushometers are seen almost exclusively in commercial buildings with at least a 5/8ths feed. I seriously doubt they work on typical 1/4" household feedlines.

The mystique to proper lowflow household units is that the flapper opening is half again larger, creating the 'surge' also attributed to 'pressurized' systems which are expensive and not carte-blanche successful.
 
Wall Hung Terlets

I don't think I've seen a residential install of wall-hungs in the US but they are much more common on the continent (masonry/concrete construction?). I did a job where we mounted the carriages on the floor as I recall. It was a medical office, so obviously had to meet ADA and cleanability - the MEP engineers spec'ed them as I recall.

Flushometers were pretty common in the 20's in Chicago, sometimes in single-family houses, but more commonly in courtyard buildings and up (ever so often in six-flats, but more rarely). Courtyard buildings are normally 3 floors over an "english basement", i.e. ground floor.
 
Lots of wall mounted toilets here, they have been very popular for many years in the Netherlands. Ofcourse it's all brick walls here. Never saw one that was sagging or warping. My parents installed one many years ago. My brother took over the house five years ago and the same toilet is still there. Still hangs like the day it was installed.
 
How about some real factual info rather than conjecture on wall hung toilets. We put one in in our basement 30 years ago. It never sagged. A lot of heavy people sat on it over the years, no issue. About 10 years ago I replaced it with a low flo version with a flushometer at it still is not sagging. The flushometer needs a healthy supply of water and the bath backs up to the closet with the water meter so it was easy to plumb in the larger lines needed for it.

It's true you need 2x6 framing to support it, but that is not too difficult of an issue to overcome. I like wall hung and would have no issues spec'ing it for any job I was doing.
 
Did you install a commercial toilet or a residential toilet? I think the European residential wall-hung toilets are tank models with a concealed tank, i.e. non-flusometer.
 
Concealed tanks

I just went on Ifö's website to see how they did the concealed tanks. Seems like a maintenance hassle if it's concealed. You can even get an exposed tank model wall-hung (sort of defeats the idea of having a sleek wall hung install to me, but then again...).
 
Exposed Tank Wall Hung

That's what I'm having installed.  The sources of most toilet issues are inside the tank, and I want to be able to access it.   A friend of ours has this type.  They are original to his 1961 wood frame house and have never been a problem.

 

This is for a master bath.  The deafening Niagra Falls effect of a Flushometer is the last thing I would want in there.

rp2813++2-13-2014-13-21-31.jpg
 
Presumably bolted into a concrete wall.

Let's double check our reading comprehension, shall we?

 

The bath backs up to a closet, and larger lines were run.  I'm confident that this didn't happen by taking a jackhammer to concrete.

 

The post also suggests knowledge about the required 2" x 6" framing was gained from the process.
 
Hey Ralph,

Thanks for thinking of this issue. However, the chair carrier for the toilet has already been installed by the plumber, and I believe it is Watts brand.

It is bolted to the concrete floor, and is installed in a double wall of steel framing (3 5/8" studs). Outside face to face of the studs is 10" to accomodate the carrier and associated piping. The supply line to the flush valve is 1" copper, which is the minimum for this type valve.

This bath is also to have a wall mounted sink, which also requires a carrier. Mark (my great plumber) installed this at the same time as the one for the toilet.
 
OK Tom, it sounds like you have flushed out all the particulars with regard to wall-hung installation . . .

 

Fortunately, we're going to be able to use the carrier I purchased.  The contractor found a sanitary fitting for exactly the purpose this installation calls for, so we're all set.   The wall has been firred out and the carrier is in place, but the mounting isn't quite complete.  Since the carrier doesn't rest on the floor, they're putting blocks underneath it to in a sense bring the floor up to the carrier.  As long as they reinforce the hell out of the 2 x 6s just for good measure I think all should be fine.
 
The wall mount Toto toilets my clients installed have the concealed tanks. Very pretty but I’ll agree maintenance doesn’t look easy so for most applications the exposed tank is probably better.

There is no reason quality wood studwall construction can’t hold a toilet: wood regularly holds up way more than that load in all kinds of buildings throughout the world. One of the big advantages of wood construction is ease of connections but this is often used as an excuse to give no thought to proper connections: many old houses are held together mostly by toenailing which can be prone to getting loose. One of the first things a modern structural engineer will do when working with an old wood building is to call for new fasteners and framing anchors throughout critical areas; the wood itself is usually not a problem unless damaged.

In this case I’d insist on either copious blocking at the sole plate or some framing anchors to make sure the new studs are correctly located. The top plate connection is not so critical but again needs something more than toenailing. And the plumber shouldn’t ruin it by boring big holes through the studs, there are standards for this but tradesmen have been known to ignore them.

Good luck and post some pics when it is done!
 
Rp2813, Thanks for the useful info.  Wall hung is a great idea.  You can mop under it and also if it is your  "forever" house you get to make the decision about height,   Bonus, no more tangled up "contour" rugs.  Sounds like your guy came thru with the right mount.  I was going to ask about commercial plumbing supply houses, hospitals have to get them from somewhere?
 
Wall Mount Update

The mounting was roughed in using firred out and "sistered" 2 x 6's plus extra blocking up front and at bottom for good measure.  It's in there solid!

 

 

rp2813++3-4-2014-23-29-38.jpg
 
We've always dreamed to have an american toilet bowl in our household but at the end we never did... European toilets sucks and many always leaves residues and stuff gets often stuck, american ones always flush everything down and really clean the bowl, you almost never need the "shit brush" ton clean residues...
Not sure about consumption of ours 40 years old ideal standard toilet i assume a little less of 5 liters.
My granma had a 60 years old kind of flushometer but manual, substantially .a tap you could leave opened forever... That worked pretty well.
I do not know the average consumption of european toilets, but I assume that whenever you have to have installed a shit-erator ( kinda a sikerator but for the shit, to have a bathroom installed where toilet large piping is not present) you'd need a larger quantity of water,, we have one in our company and it does have a large tank, about 6-7 liters...It works pretty well and also it almost never leaves residues, unlike many others regular plumbed and not with less water usage, american toilets always used water more effectively and also efficiently than european or at least italian ones....also you often need even multiple flushes with them...
 
my house in city is about 60 years old.......I switched the main floor toilet out for an American Standard 1.6....biggest mistake ever!.....

it clogs for what ever reason....and you have to press and 'hold' for a complete flush.....one advantage is if you lift the handle during a flush, all water stops, comes in handy before a flood condition.....

the steel 4" pipe travels from the back corner of the house to the street, roughly 40 feet.....in fact, I just had a backup on Friday, the street was cleaned out, but my pipes were packed with sludge, apparently not enough water is being used to wash everything all the way out of the house.....
the toilet on the second floor is original to the house, using something like 3 gallons or more per flush, and its at the start of the line, never trading that thing out as long as I own the house.....

in fact too, gonna shop around at ReStores and find one of the older toilets and put back in place.......never had issues until this newer toilet was installed...

unfortunately the lines were installed when these water guzzling toilets were around.....as the plumber has told me, if I was to switch to 3" drains and change the pitch, I may not have these problems with the lower flush toilets...

nice idea to conserve water.....1.6 flush or less are not for every application!
 
gonna shop around at ReStores

Martin, you might want to rethink that.  I tried to donate the old 1960 toilet to my local ReStore and they advised they only accept low flow models.

 

If the same is true in your area, check craigslist "Free Stuff" listings.  There were four other toilets besides mine on there, two that weren't low flow (including a vintage American Standard one-piece in working order), and mine was claimed in a day.

 

@ kmg89:  Most toilets sold in the U.S. from the '70s ('80s?) and earlier use as much as 5 gallons per flush.

 

Re: The bathroom remodel, I'm not doing it myself.  There was far too much plumbing work as the entire configuration was changing, and necessary structural changes were best left to a pro.  I selected and purchased the wall mount toilet mentioned above, tile, faucets, vanity, sink top, lighting, heater/exhaust fan unit, and am waiting for tile to be in so I can have measurements taken for the shower enclosure, which I am also providing.

 

The only project I did was sanding, patching and priming an interior door that was original to the house (it was being used as a storage platform in the garage rafters), and I scrounged door molding that matches the rest of the house up at Urban Ore.  I already had all of the original door hardware.  The door, molding, original hinges and lockset will provide a look on the bedroom side that will give the impression the master bath wasn't added on.

 

The sheetrock has been taped, but things are currently stalled due to lead time for both the painter and tile guy.

[this post was last edited: 3/11/2014-23:43]
 
Flushometer, baby!

Push and hold.

You've got the full pressure of the New York City water supply at your fingertips, for as long as you need it.

Release.

Residue? What's residue?
 
Almost bought a 1.6g toilet at the restore today, but glad I didn't.  I have a 45 year old American Standard toilet that randomly leaks, from where I cannot tell.  I pulled it last fall, put new tank to bowl gaskets in, replaced the water line, and used a no wax ring, and it still leaks.  But not all the time.  No pattern to the leak, weeks can go by and all is well, then there is a puddle on the left side.  This is my guest bath, and in case you are wondering if its a weight related thing, I only pee in this toilet so no weight on it at all.

 

Anyway I saw a one piece Elger toilet for $35 and was seriously considering it.  Thought about it more, called my cousin who is a plumber and asked his thoughts on Elger, he said it's a second tier brand, but decent.  I was planning to get it in the morning but after a fair amount of research online I found why it was in the restore.  It has a very poor flush capability.  It was tested and only flushed 150 grams, and the typical adult male's "load" is 250 grams, so it will stay in the restore.
 
Flushometer

Aren't you, in NYC, really dependent upon your rooftop tank for water pressure? My water pressure is dependent upon our tank (and the supply lines too of course), though we're switching to pumps and abandoning the tank - we aren't required to have tanks in Chicago anymore. One of my flushometers needs two flushes and the other flushometer only one and its dependent upon the water pressure in the different supply risers (or downsers, since the supply is from above to the bathrooms).
 
Matt

Aren't toilet tanks inclined to "sweat" depending on the temperature of the water in the tank and ambient conditions outside the tank?  Same principle as a glass of iced water, I would imagine.

 

I think this may be more of an issue in areas with high humidity or very cold water supply or both.  Here in the SF Bay Area, tank exteriors tend to stay dry all year so I can't speak from experience.

 

I'm surprised your town doesn't have an ordinance against low flow toilets. . .
smiley-wink.gif
 
Louis makes a valid point, but there may be sanitary system differences that impact performance.

 

After learning that so many multi-unit residential buildings in NYC use Flushometers, it's no wonder the sewer system was so heavily burdened during the infamous I Love Lucy commercial break.
 
Tank Sweat

Oh yes, they can and do sweat in summer in the midwest. Even roof drains can sweat during thunderstorms!
 
We've had low-flush models for many years as well. Unfortunately, however, what I said above rings true:

 

Push either the "Half" of "Full" flush button, and you have to hold it down, lest you just get a short bust of flush and cable/s that have not been laid. 

Some are better than others, but it seems many of the ones used in Commercial settings have this issue. They are seem to be Caroma models too... 

 

 
 

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