Question about suds saver and how it worked
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polkanut
Well-known member
re: Bob & Pete,
Bob, you are correct in that the return hose does lose it's "prime", at least it does on our Maytag Dependable Care suds-saver machine.
Pete, you too are correct about susds return hose lengths. The hoses as a rule are made to not touch the bottom of the sink were the wash water is being held so as to not draw up anything that has settled on the sink bottom.
The link below is to E.L. Mustee & Sons website where you can still buy suds tubs. The models they show don't appear to have an integrated stand pipe though. According to the website, Home Depot is one of their retail outlets.
Bob, you are correct in that the return hose does lose it's "prime", at least it does on our Maytag Dependable Care suds-saver machine.
Pete, you too are correct about susds return hose lengths. The hoses as a rule are made to not touch the bottom of the sink were the wash water is being held so as to not draw up anything that has settled on the sink bottom.
The link below is to E.L. Mustee & Sons website where you can still buy suds tubs. The models they show don't appear to have an integrated stand pipe though. According to the website, Home Depot is one of their retail outlets.
It worked well enough, if you sorted like you were using a wringer washer, for instance white sheets and towels followed by white cottons, then followed by colored towels, you had to keep in mind if you had used bleach or not.. If you had a mechanic or farmer in the family your could wash the lesser soil load first and have the badly soiled in the "save" sink for a longer soak while the first load finished. you had to watch what you were doing, re: the additives used in the first load. If you had limited amounts of well or cistern water it could be a real good routine. City folks unless very frugal would be less likely to purchase the suds saver when i reality they could probably of gotten away with good laundering using the system to refresh light soiled office wear. My brother farms and mechanics i could not imagine saving wash water from his clothes. alr
passatdoc
Well-known member
@mickeyd: the folks in question had no indoor plumbing. I am assuming the water was hauled in from a well pump, heated on a stove, and then added to the washer, which was located on an outside porch because of the gas exhaust fumes. There were no pipes or laundry sinks or running water of any kind. They were simply grateful not to have to wash by hand with a board and pail.
mickeyd
Well-known member
Dave and Joe, sorry I forgot to thank you !
I got so caught up on Jim's tale of the gas Maytag and suds-saving that I overlooked acknowledging your graciousness. So thank you both.
I got so caught up on Jim's tale of the gas Maytag and suds-saving that I overlooked acknowledging your graciousness. So thank you both.
DirectDriveDave
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You're very welcome!
Curious though, how come you haven't done much with youtube since then? (so it seemed on the channel)
Curious though, how come you haven't done much with youtube since then? (so it seemed on the channel)
mickeyd
Well-known member
My friend Dennis films the movies and the last few times he came over with his camera, I wasn't up to filming. The last one we made was over a year ago. I'll get back to it.
And now back to the
suds.
The Frigidaire could lose its prime easily, too, but the KM/WP's did not. They pretty much wrote the book on suds-saving; in fact, WP would not market their Automatic until they perfected the Suds-return. And as has been seen on this forum lately, the early machines had Suds-returns as a standard feature, built into the wash cycle, without any special separate switches. The Suds were returned and the wash cycle proceeded without interruption, automatically. You didn't have to move the dial as is the case on some later models.
The suds hose was indeed designed to reach the bottom of the tub, but the siphon would break to prevent the last half inch or so from entering the washer. Some hoses were cut at an angle at the bottom, other created an angle by the placement of the hose, but I saw many that were nearly flush with the bottom, and a few that sucked up all the water. Most loads did not have muck or stuff in the washing liquors, as they were once comically called. You'd save the grime for last, and not save that water by removing the plug from the sink.
The early WP/KM machines did not allow the save or drain/dispose option. All wash water was pumped out the suds hose, and all rinse water, including the post-wash spray rinses, came out the L-shaped drain hose; hence, all the valve clanging that so many of us came to love. If you didn't want to save the suds, you simply left the stopper out of the sink. There was no way to make all the water come out of one hose, as was possible in later years. I think GE's earliest suds-returns did have the save/drain/drain/ feature.
For me, few washer functions are as dramatic or as satisfying as watching the original suds-returns at work.
EDIT: PS, Dave, the other flix are on another channel. Dennis had trouble finding the first channel so he made EasySpin 1.
And now back to the
The Frigidaire could lose its prime easily, too, but the KM/WP's did not. They pretty much wrote the book on suds-saving; in fact, WP would not market their Automatic until they perfected the Suds-return. And as has been seen on this forum lately, the early machines had Suds-returns as a standard feature, built into the wash cycle, without any special separate switches. The Suds were returned and the wash cycle proceeded without interruption, automatically. You didn't have to move the dial as is the case on some later models.
The suds hose was indeed designed to reach the bottom of the tub, but the siphon would break to prevent the last half inch or so from entering the washer. Some hoses were cut at an angle at the bottom, other created an angle by the placement of the hose, but I saw many that were nearly flush with the bottom, and a few that sucked up all the water. Most loads did not have muck or stuff in the washing liquors, as they were once comically called. You'd save the grime for last, and not save that water by removing the plug from the sink.
The early WP/KM machines did not allow the save or drain/dispose option. All wash water was pumped out the suds hose, and all rinse water, including the post-wash spray rinses, came out the L-shaped drain hose; hence, all the valve clanging that so many of us came to love. If you didn't want to save the suds, you simply left the stopper out of the sink. There was no way to make all the water come out of one hose, as was possible in later years. I think GE's earliest suds-returns did have the save/drain/drain/ feature.
For me, few washer functions are as dramatic or as satisfying as watching the original suds-returns at work.
EDIT: PS, Dave, the other flix are on another channel. Dennis had trouble finding the first channel so he made EasySpin 1.
DirectDriveDave
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Oh that explains it!
I'll check them out when I have the time.
I'll check them out when I have the time.
polkanut
Well-known member
MickeyD
You've hit the nail on the head with your explanations. All of Mom's GE's had the option of saving or draining suds, and from what I remember you had to move the dial once the suds were returned to continue with the regular wash cycle.
Yesterday at an estate/tag sale there was an 80's Maytag set for sale and the suds-saver washer was located next to a concrete double tub laundry sink. It had the suds hose on one side of the sink, and rinse discharge hose on the other side. It was exactly the same set-up as what my Mom had/has. Didn't see what the asking price was for the set though.
You've hit the nail on the head with your explanations. All of Mom's GE's had the option of saving or draining suds, and from what I remember you had to move the dial once the suds were returned to continue with the regular wash cycle.
Yesterday at an estate/tag sale there was an 80's Maytag set for sale and the suds-saver washer was located next to a concrete double tub laundry sink. It had the suds hose on one side of the sink, and rinse discharge hose on the other side. It was exactly the same set-up as what my Mom had/has. Didn't see what the asking price was for the set though.
mickeyd
Well-known member
Hey Tim
My Aunt Alice had a pink GE in her kitchen with the alum hook drain hose in the sink. Curled up behind the machine was the attached suds hose. Thank God I never touched the lever. "Drain" was unmarked and in the middle, between SAVE and RETURN if my young memory is accurate.
It was a TOL, mid-to-late 50's with many metal levers in a row with salmon tabs. She was really strict then, and had I flooded the kitchen, I might not be here right now. ;-D
My Aunt Alice had a pink GE in her kitchen with the alum hook drain hose in the sink. Curled up behind the machine was the attached suds hose. Thank God I never touched the lever. "Drain" was unmarked and in the middle, between SAVE and RETURN if my young memory is accurate.
It was a TOL, mid-to-late 50's with many metal levers in a row with salmon tabs. She was really strict then, and had I flooded the kitchen, I might not be here right now. ;-D
polkanut
Well-known member
The suds hoses on Moms 2 GE's had a wire wrapping around them, and they were cut at an angle at the end to help break the suction before the tub was completely emptied. Hers and our Maytags have slanted hose ends also.
When we were first married some friends of ours were over one evening to see the house. When we mentioned that we had received a suds-saver machine from my parents as a wedding gift, her comment was "how cheap can a person be." I think it's great to have one as a daily driver, and it helps save on the water bill.
When we were first married some friends of ours were over one evening to see the house. When we mentioned that we had received a suds-saver machine from my parents as a wedding gift, her comment was "how cheap can a person be." I think it's great to have one as a daily driver, and it helps save on the water bill.
mickeyd
Well-known member
For the record, Tim.
I've heard that solid tub GE's returned the water to the outer tub, then arriving in the inner tub via the filter-flo. Is that correct? And that the agitator was in motion. Do any of the perf tub GE's have suds-savers? Thanks.
Your friends do not realize that it's only been in the last half century or so that people dumped perfectly clean, hot, soapy, cloroxed water down the drain after one use. Before that, it was unthinkable.
Slowly, we can assemble a comprehensive history of Suds-savers. We have the WP/KM, the MT and with you, the GE, in place. But many of the solid tubs of the 50's like the Norge are still out there.
I've heard that solid tub GE's returned the water to the outer tub, then arriving in the inner tub via the filter-flo. Is that correct? And that the agitator was in motion. Do any of the perf tub GE's have suds-savers? Thanks.
Your friends do not realize that it's only been in the last half century or so that people dumped perfectly clean, hot, soapy, cloroxed water down the drain after one use. Before that, it was unthinkable.
Slowly, we can assemble a comprehensive history of Suds-savers. We have the WP/KM, the MT and with you, the GE, in place. But many of the solid tubs of the 50's like the Norge are still out there.
suds14
Well-known member
Speen Queen suds return.
My aunt had a Speed Queen with suds saver. When she turn the switch to return, I can remember the suds water coming in just like the fresh water did. This was amazing to me becasue my mom's, my grandma's and the neighbor who I always helped on wash day all had Whirlpools with suds saver and the the washer agitated and brought the water through the bottom.
Mickey, I still cannot just wash a load and let the water down the drain. I need to get one of my suds models uo an running. Right now I am washing and I save the water move the hose to second tub and put the water back in the washer with a bucket for each addition load I do.
David
My aunt had a Speed Queen with suds saver. When she turn the switch to return, I can remember the suds water coming in just like the fresh water did. This was amazing to me becasue my mom's, my grandma's and the neighbor who I always helped on wash day all had Whirlpools with suds saver and the the washer agitated and brought the water through the bottom.
Mickey, I still cannot just wash a load and let the water down the drain. I need to get one of my suds models uo an running. Right now I am washing and I save the water move the hose to second tub and put the water back in the washer with a bucket for each addition load I do.
David
mickeyd
Well-known member
David
It would be cool to know how it came in thru the fill flume. We learned the other day, that SQ used a smaller separate pump the way Frigidaire did, and we could tell from seeing Patrick's machine that it operated through the 4 minute fill, just like Frigidaire. But this is cool news. While Frigi had a separate flume, your SQ was routed right in with the fill flume and probably aerated too. How exciting! So that's the last piece in the SQ version of the Suds-return. The more we know, the better it gets.
David, depending on what machine you are currently using, you may be able to siphon the water back into your machines, until you get one of your suds machine back on line.
It would be cool to know how it came in thru the fill flume. We learned the other day, that SQ used a smaller separate pump the way Frigidaire did, and we could tell from seeing Patrick's machine that it operated through the 4 minute fill, just like Frigidaire. But this is cool news. While Frigi had a separate flume, your SQ was routed right in with the fill flume and probably aerated too. How exciting! So that's the last piece in the SQ version of the Suds-return. The more we know, the better it gets.
David, depending on what machine you are currently using, you may be able to siphon the water back into your machines, until you get one of your suds machine back on line.
polkanut
Well-known member
MickeyD,
Yes, it is true that the wash water in the 1967 GE was returned to the tub via the Filter-Flo with the agitator in motion. Mom's circa 1984 GE suds-saver had a perforated tub, and the suds came in from the bottom. When the tub was about 1/2 full the Filter-Flo pump would kick in while the suds were still coming in from the bottom.
Yes, it is true that the wash water in the 1967 GE was returned to the tub via the Filter-Flo with the agitator in motion. Mom's circa 1984 GE suds-saver had a perforated tub, and the suds came in from the bottom. When the tub was about 1/2 full the Filter-Flo pump would kick in while the suds were still coming in from the bottom.
mickeyd
Well-known member
Polkanut
That must have been really cool: suds coming in from the top and the bottom. Love to see that. Leave it to GE for drama, as if the mini-basket fill were not enough with all that fury as the filter-flo fills the dancing tub. Chubby Checkers and Let's Do the Twist.
Another piece, Tim, thanks. Amazing.
Edit PS: You're the first person I've heard tell of the perf tub GE suds. Wonder how many are out there.
[this post was last edited: 3/11/2012-12:04]
That must have been really cool: suds coming in from the top and the bottom. Love to see that. Leave it to GE for drama, as if the mini-basket fill were not enough with all that fury as the filter-flo fills the dancing tub. Chubby Checkers and Let's Do the Twist.
Another piece, Tim, thanks. Amazing.
Edit PS: You're the first person I've heard tell of the perf tub GE suds. Wonder how many are out there.
[this post was last edited: 3/11/2012-12:04]
mickeyd
Well-known member
Excuse me, Tim, er..... um.....not the twist, but the
POLKA
POLKA
polkanut
Well-known member
I don't know how many GE suds-savers may still be out there, but I do know that in 1998 when we were shopping for our current Maytag Dependable Care set, the appliance store had to special order the washer because this was when Maytag was phasing suds-savers out of production. My wife has already said that she wants to keep the washer going as long as possible because she grew up in a wringer washer household. For her, saving wash water is the norm. YAY!!!
ingliscanada
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GE & WP Suds Return
From the descriptions above, GE's suds-return cycle is much like that from Whirlpool. WP also agitates as the suds comes up through the bottom, then as the level rises, the water starts coming out of the waterfall filter. Then it also has that dual-action fill. I'll bet the GEs must've been very splashy during the suds-return with that fast agitation!
David, thanks for the info on the SQ suds-return cycle. I wonder if GE and Easy were the only solid-tub washers which had an agitated suds-return cycle. Maytag AMP, and many other solid tubbers, must've had a neutral top-fill suds-return cycle, since they had no recirculation-type filter systems. It seems that the Westinghouse top-loaders were never available with suds-saver. I remember the Canadian Vikings from the 60s, with the Franklin mechanics and solid tub, were available with suds-saver. Has anyone seen an old Franklin suds-return cycle in action? If it's the agitated type, it must've looked funny with the indexing tub dry agitation with the suds coming in!
Gary
From the descriptions above, GE's suds-return cycle is much like that from Whirlpool. WP also agitates as the suds comes up through the bottom, then as the level rises, the water starts coming out of the waterfall filter. Then it also has that dual-action fill. I'll bet the GEs must've been very splashy during the suds-return with that fast agitation!
David, thanks for the info on the SQ suds-return cycle. I wonder if GE and Easy were the only solid-tub washers which had an agitated suds-return cycle. Maytag AMP, and many other solid tubbers, must've had a neutral top-fill suds-return cycle, since they had no recirculation-type filter systems. It seems that the Westinghouse top-loaders were never available with suds-saver. I remember the Canadian Vikings from the 60s, with the Franklin mechanics and solid tub, were available with suds-saver. Has anyone seen an old Franklin suds-return cycle in action? If it's the agitated type, it must've looked funny with the indexing tub dry agitation with the suds coming in!
Gary
mickeyd
Well-known member
For her, saving wash water is the norm. YAY!!
Ditto.
Gary, the Maytags returned the suds from the bottom of the tub while agitating exactly like the non-waterfall WP/KM's. Geoff has an MT suds and there is a video of it. No surprize that Maytag imitated Whirlpool's perfection of their well-researched, tested and simplified system. Petek has cited the video of this.
The first WP/KM's did not recirculate but indeed returned suds, a standard feature then.
Ditto.
Gary, the Maytags returned the suds from the bottom of the tub while agitating exactly like the non-waterfall WP/KM's. Geoff has an MT suds and there is a video of it. No surprize that Maytag imitated Whirlpool's perfection of their well-researched, tested and simplified system. Petek has cited the video of this.
The first WP/KM's did not recirculate but indeed returned suds, a standard feature then.
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