Question about suds saver and how it worked

[mickeyd]

For the record, Tim.

I've heard that solid tub GE's returned the water to the outer tub, then arriving in the inner tub via the filter-flo. Is that correct? And that the agitator was in motion. Do any of the perf tub GE's have suds-savers? Thanks.

 

Your friends do not realize that it's only been in the last half century or so that people dumped perfectly clean, hot, soapy, cloroxed water down the drain after one use. Before that, it was unthinkable.

 

Slowly, we can assemble a comprehensive history of Suds-savers. We have the WP/KM, the MT and with you, the GE, in place. But many of the solid tubs of the 50's like the Norge are still out there.

 

[suds14]

Speen Queen suds return.

My aunt had a Speed Queen with suds saver. When she turn the switch to return, I can remember the suds water coming in just like the fresh water did. This was amazing to me becasue my mom's, my grandma's and the neighbor who I always helped on wash day all had Whirlpools with suds saver and the the washer agitated and brought the water through the bottom.

Mickey, I still cannot just wash a load and let the water down the drain. I need to get one of my suds models uo an running. Right now I am washing and I save the water move the hose to second tub and put the water back in the washer with a bucket for each addition load I do.

David

 

[mickeyd]

David

It would be cool to know how it came in thru the fill flume. We learned the other day, that SQ used a smaller separate pump the way Frigidaire did, and we could tell from seeing Patrick's machine that it operated through the 4 minute fill, just like Frigidaire. But this is cool news. While Frigi had a separate flume, your SQ was routed right in with the fill flume and probably aerated too. How exciting! So that's the last piece in the SQ version of the Suds-return. The more we know, the better it gets.

 

David, depending on what machine you are currently using, you may be able to siphon the water back into your machines, until you get one of your suds machine back on line.

 

[polkanut]

MickeyD,

Yes, it is true that the wash water in the 1967 GE was returned to the tub via the Filter-Flo with the agitator in motion.  Mom's circa 1984 GE suds-saver had a perforated tub, and the suds came in from the bottom.  When the tub was about 1/2 full the Filter-Flo pump would kick in while the suds were still coming in from the bottom.

 

[mickeyd]

Polkanut

That must have been really cool: suds coming in from the top and the bottom. Love to see that. Leave it to GE for drama, as if the mini-basket fill were not enough with all that fury as the filter-flo fills the dancing tub. Chubby Checkers and Let's Do the Twist.

 

Another piece, Tim, thanks. Amazing.

 

Edit PS: You're the first person I've heard tell of the perf tub GE suds. Wonder how many are out there.

[this post was last edited: 3/11/2012-12:04]

 

[mickeyd]

Excuse me, Tim, er..... um.....not the twist, but the

POLKA

 

[polkanut]

I don't know how many GE suds-savers may still be out there, but I do know that in 1998 when we were shopping for our current Maytag Dependable Care set, the appliance store had to special order the washer because this was when Maytag was phasing suds-savers out of production.  My wife has already said that she wants to keep the washer going as long as possible because she grew up in a wringer washer household.  For her, saving wash water is the norm.  YAY!!!

 

[ingliscanada]

GE & WP Suds Return

From the descriptions above, GE's suds-return cycle is much like that from Whirlpool. WP also agitates as the suds comes up through the bottom, then as the level rises, the water starts coming out of the waterfall filter. Then it also has that dual-action fill. I'll bet the GEs must've been very splashy during the suds-return with that fast agitation!

David, thanks for the info on the SQ suds-return cycle. I wonder if GE and Easy were the only solid-tub washers which had an agitated suds-return cycle. Maytag AMP, and many other solid tubbers, must've had a neutral top-fill suds-return cycle, since they had no recirculation-type filter systems. It seems that the Westinghouse top-loaders were never available with suds-saver. I remember the Canadian Vikings from the 60s, with the Franklin mechanics and solid tub, were available with suds-saver. Has anyone seen an old Franklin suds-return cycle in action? If it's the agitated type, it must've looked funny with the indexing tub dry agitation with the suds coming in!

Gary

 

[mickeyd]

For her, saving wash water is the norm. YAY!!

Ditto.

 

Gary, the Maytags returned the suds from the bottom of the tub while agitating exactly like the non-waterfall WP/KM's. Geoff has an MT suds and there is a video of it. No surprize that Maytag imitated Whirlpool's perfection of their well-researched, tested and simplified system. Petek has cited the video of this.

 

The first WP/KM's did not recirculate but indeed returned suds, a standard feature then.

 

[suds14]

Mickey

I have a Frigidaire and sometimes it will siphon the water but not always. When my mom replaced her Maytag she bought a GE and I showed her how to save the water and how to siphon thet water back in. She is so happy it always siphons the water in because she cannot lift the buckets and she has always had a suds saver. washer until now.

David

 

[mickeyd]

Dave, it happened to me too. "Sometimes it will siphon t

If your Frigi is a uni- multi- or roller-matic, make sure you've got enough water in the outer tub to get the siphon going. Just let the tub fill for a few seconds, couple quarts should do, throw the water, then start the agitation till the gushing water is strong--only seconds--and stop the agi/pimp. The siphon should be perfect. And the hose has to be secure. If it's a standard hose, you have to secure it to the bottom of the sink. Ours was easy because the sinks had a sliding lid, so you'd just pull the hose into the sink till the neck fit against the bottom, then slide the lid across and lock it in. Excuse me if you already know this. If it's a perf tub Frigi, I have no experience there.

 

[akronman]

1-18

The 1-18's with perforated tub will also suck suds back in. I just wired around my water level switch to get a dry agitate. The 1-18 does require the "pump priming" of 10 seconds of fill, then immediate spinout, then I flip my switch to dry agitate and immediately get the suction going. Do it all on low speed, it works for me. The 75 Filter-Flo also requires the pump priming 20 seconds of work, while my "monkey-rigged water level switch suds machines-dry agitate" 79 Maytag and 60-WP both almost always suck immediately in dry agitate, especially the 'Tag, never a problem..

I do not own any genuine suds machines, but I have rewired and gotten all to work so far. Someday I'll find a real one, I hope.

My 78 Norge, I mis-wired and am currently getting agitation that starts as fresh flume water enters, I need to splice into a different water level switch wire for try #2, dry agitate. But I did at least shut off water valves, and yes it sucks back the suds with no priming. Soon I'll try wiring attempt #2.

While I wish all my machines were truly automatic suds machines, I have found easy ways to get them all to be "manual suds savers." For hobbyists like many of us, I find the once a week of evening of 4 machines with one wash water to be a fun and busy chore, swapping hoses from tubs to drains and such. But many would prefer a real automatic suds machines like many from the 50's, I don't blame them.

 

My only problem----whites! I start with very hot water, and Biz and OxiClean and powder detergent, and let them soak, but I am afraid of Clorox because the next load isn't white. If I do occasionally add Clorox, which I like for whites, that's the one load where I do not save suds. Am I a chicken about "used" Clorox damaging the next load? With summer coming, I do lots of white socks, Tees, etc, more than winter.

 

[suds14]

My Frigidaire is from 2001. What gets me if I am outside hanging clothes and I do not get back down the cellar before the rinse fill the water is siphoning back in, but when I want it to, is siphons only a little back and stops. Akronman I soak my whites fisrt in warm bleach water then make fresh hot water to wash then save that water for as many loads as I need.

I am so glad this topic is running, I didn't realize how many of us like the suds savers. Most people think I am crazy and am using dirty water. My rags which are washed after black clothes are still whiter than my sister in-laws whites and she uses clean water all the time.

 

[badgerdx]

Fascinating stuff. It explains the two concrete washtubs next to the washer and the extra hose when I was a child (Childhood washers: 63 Kenmore 70 series and a Wizard Citation Imperial)... Of course, as an adult who's an equestrian with gardening and stonemasonry as a vocation, the LAST thing I WANT to do is save those nasty suds...

 

[passatdoc]

more details re: gasoline powered wringer washer in Iowa

The couple from Iowa were in the office last week. He grew up on a farm. She grew up in town and always had electricity (she doesn't remember not having electricity). They are in their early 90s.

He said that water for the washer was heated on their wood-burning stove in a large copper vessel normally used for butchering pigs. The water was then re-used for a series of washes on wash day. The wood-burning stove had an auxiliary water tank, about five gallons, that kept a small quantity of water at hot temperature for washing hands, faces, etc., but it was insufficient to fill the wringer washer. Because of the gasoline fumes, the washer had to be outside on the porch. Rinse water was obtained from a well hand pump and hauled over to the washer.

His wife recalls an electric wringer washer. Her house had indoor plumbing. I forgot to ask her if they had central water heaters then or whether they had to heat water on a stove. My guess is that in the early days of central hot water, people ran into supply problems (i.e. hot water ran out) and that part of the impetus for suds saver was not simply to save water/energy but to avoid running out of hot water before the wash day was over.

 

[polkanut]

My Grandma Wilde was born in 1903, and grew up on a farm west of Wausau which was homestead property.  They finally got electricity in the mid 1930's thanks to FDR, and the REA (Rural Electrification Act).  She remembered her family getting a gas-powered Maytag with a flex exhaust hose that they could stick out the basement window.  This was sometime in the mid 1920's.  From what she told me, they had a wood stove in the cellar, a sink with a pump for water, and clotheslines for use in the winter.

 

[mickeyd]

Morning chuckle

Not reading carefully, it first sounded like Jim's friends used the pig water to wash the clothes. Laughing at myself.

 

[yogitunes]

Heres a few scans of a Speed Queen repair manual...interesting of all the different designs this washer had, not only thru the years, but in the same years as well, they had solid tubs, with time fill and metered fill as well.....they had one basic base design between motor, trans, pumps, tub and agitator.....but offered overflo rinsing, and filter tray, as well as agitator mounted filter pan, bleach injection of several designs, as well as softner designs....I guess it was a matter of BOL to TOL.....

it shows the suds return variations from a spout in the 10 o clock position...to returning thru the filter flume, if so equipted....

 

[yogitunes]

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[yogitunes]

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[yogitunes]

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[yogitunes]

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[ingliscanada]

MikeyD

About the Maytag suds-return cycle, I know the helical-drive washer returned suds through the bottom with dry agitation, but was the same also true with the older MT AMP (ie solid tub with perforated inner liner)?

Gary

 

[mickeyd]

Gary, I'm pretty sure

that the systems are the same. In fact, I think Geoff D's Suds Tag is an AMP. There is a video somewhere.

 

 

 

[mickeyd]

OH MARTIN!!!

The Speed Queen's version of a suds return is a miracle of engineering. Holy Cow! I'm going to have to re-read and study because I didn't get it all the first time. But thanks so much for finding and scanning this. For me, it's candy.

 

[neptunebob]

Bring it back?

If you all want me to maybe I can start a petition for Whirlpool to bring the suds saver back.  It would certainly be better than the low water level on the Roper.

 

[yogitunes]

Bob...the new Whirlpools don't use enough water to be worth saving.......you would not need a laundry tub, just a five gallon bucket to save the suds...

Mike...I re-read and looked over that diagram myself for hours trying to understand the complexety of this system......suds save, filtering, bleach dispenser?....if I had one, I would be afraid to take it apart for fear of not getting back together right....between that valve, and seperate return pump, the regular pump, and then, to drain, to save, or to filter.....that machine would confuse its ownself....lol...

not to mention, time fill, metered fill, or pressure valved fill.......

all this talk about the automatic ones........and people think I confuse them on my setup, either use a wringer as a tub, and its pump to return the water....or line up machines, draining one into the next.....you just have to be there to monitor it.......