Recycling Scam

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Have to say that despite the article, the logo is starting to appear on a lot of niche brands and big mainstream ones.

Just curious if the Irish logo is appearing on U.K. or any other Euripean versions too?

Some of these products just slap on all the logos for various markets as it’s easier.

Others are simply just registering the barcodes and not labelling yet. So the machines still recognise the bottles.

novum-2024030714323408415_1.jpg
 
Just over a month into the scheme and we have issues:

https://www.independent.ie/irish-ne...and-can-deposit-return-scheme/a686157641.html

“Millions of euro go unclaimed in first 40 days of plastic bottle and can deposit return scheme.”

It took in 7 million containers of 193 million, the vast majority of which are likely still going into kerbside recycling or are making their way into non recycling waste, so it’s capturing a whopping 3.63% so far.

The machines are also weird. The larger ones at supermarkets work reliably but there are also smaller machines that aren’t much bigger than a large side by side fridge/freezer that have been installed in smaller stores like convenience stores and petrol (gas) stations they are just so finicky to use. They frequently refuse to read barcodes and are just a poor user experience.

The estimates were that it would take in about €1m per day in deposits. In its first month it’s only returned €1.2m. So a lot of deposits are being abandoned. Just for context, Ireland’s population is 5.2 million, so roughly equivalent to a state like South Carolina or a Canadian province like British Columbia, slightly fewer people than Victoria in Australia.
 
Bottle and can return deposits

It’s too bad that set up such a complicated system, they should just give $.10 back for every bottle and can that somebody brings in, and charge Around $.15 when you buy the item that would cover the cost of collecting it it would keep people from littering and make them recycle it.

John
 
The problem with this, certainly in an Irish context, is that consumers aren't all that motivated to engage with something like this.

I studied consumer marketing once upon a time, and Ireland very much fits into the description of so called hedonistic consumers. We value the experience of shopping and a bit of luxury and convenience is attractive. Most shoppers aren't driven by utility and aren't very price sensitive. A lot people us won't be able to tell you the price of a litre of milk or a loaf of bread, but we would probably tell you that the display was lovely.

Basically, it's an audience who are highly unlikely to engage with this, yet it was rammed through based on experience in entirely different markets with very different consumer behaviour patterns.

If you look at the history of coupon schemes and so on here, people don't tend to get very excited about them and don't bother collecting them. The engagement is often very low.

We even tend to rather half heartedly engage in loyalty point schemes and so on, unless there's some very significant incentive and the whole thing's all reduced down to a very simple mobile phone app that requires very little time spent engaging with it and we're reminded constantly at the till.

This scheme is asking people to collect bottles and cans, bulky and uncrushed and then drive to the supermarket and spend 10 mins loading them one by one carefully into a machine to get some bit of paper with a barcode on it to get at most a couple of Euro off their shopping.

A few % will engage mostly because they've a strong environmental commitment, the rest won't.

Then you also have all the practical issues with the scheme : It's requiring people to store bottles, which is fine if you're in the suburbs somewhere - it might not be if you're in a smaller home.

It assumes that you can drive to a supermarket. That's not always the case if you're elderly in particular and there's a % of people who use home delivery shopping / online shopping who are not being addressed at all and the PR around this scheme just glossed over that as if it didn't matter.

It also ignores the fact that about 2/3 of us live in areas with very low population densities, so if you drive to a supermarket and the machine doesn't work, you're not likely to drive 20 mins to some other supermarket to offload a few bottles - even from an environmental point of view that makes little sense.

I've elderly relatives who are very annoyed about it. They've fixed incomes. They're from a generation that's more aware of saving a few pennies here and there and really pay attention and they are the very people who probably would use the scheme, but can't because they mostly use home delivery services.

The solution being proposed is 'oh just ask a friend, family member or neighbour.' That's lovely, but it's also very disempowering and I've one relative who considered it HIGHLY patronising to the point she's unlikely to vote for anyone who supported this.

What I don't understand is why they couldn't have just tried a collection system that operated plastic bottles at the kerbside. Instead, we seem to have spent probably tens of millions of Euro on a load of reverse vending machines, which btw had to be purchased by the retailers (at their own expense) under the legislation and has just been passed back on to the general price of groceries.

If they'd made this super convenient for consumers, had a nice PR campaign and used a lot of carrots rather than sticks - it would have worked.

Anyway, we'll see how it goes in a few months time. I don't predict a sudden surge of engagement.
 
Thank you, NOVUM, you see a lot my way, in that our recycling begins at home--not adding to our grocery bill, though found discarded containers not making it to the system are such a joy that our goods are actually cheaper, though still false economy...

 

The containers need to be brought to a destination via bins they are crushed in, new bins replace those, in these machines I'm talking, then there's the ticket for the amount processed and to be refunded, the ticket is marked that the containers are redeemed and some staff gets carried away with a sharpie marker to do all that marking with!

 

Well, I'll keep my long-story short, but where exactly is the true recycling in this "fractionalized", I guess, I'll borrow your word: SCHEME?!

 

 

 

-- Dave
 
Well the aim of the system is to concentrate higher quality materials i.e. in this case aluminium and certain food grade plastics.

Glass recycling here gets very high uptake, without any incentive through a mix of kerbside pick up and glassbanks, so it wasn't included in the deposit scheme.

They're having issues with plastics and cans because kerbside here is mixed, other than glass. So there's a big sorting process in the green bin system. They could easily have tackled that.

Trash pick up here was also completely privatised. It's a slightly bonkers system. You have multiple operators in some areas, much like utility companies. You typically have general waste, compostable waste, recycling and glass as separate bins.

They're all highly branded and some of them even roll in other services like gas and electricity as part of packages.

They charge by weight for the non-recyclable elements. So, the more you divert into compost / recycling the cheaper your bill.

The bin has an RFID tag in the handle, and when the truck lifts it it goes onto your invoice. Most providers have apps and websites so you can see what you've been charged. It's much like any other utility bill. That was introduced maybe a decade ago or so and they removed the waste management function from city councils / county councils.

The downside is that some people will just point blank refuse to pay and we've had an uptick in what is referred to as 'fly tipping' i.e. illegal dumping. It's not THAT big a deal, but there's definitely a small % of people who just will opt to fling a bag of trash down a lane somewhere or throw it into someone else's trash, rather than pay a bill.

In some areas, mostly in quite downtown locations, that's now resulted in bins with 'gravity locks' which only open when the container is inverted by the truck or when the owner uses a key!

It also resulted in people using litter bins / trashcans to sneak in household waste, which resulted in cities and towns not installing them, which also has had an impact on litter and it completely precludes the use of communal bins in town houses / apartment buildings. You'll often end up with a carpark full of individual bins, one for each unit!

Frankly, the whole approach here is N U T S and was driven by a mixture of green policy and trying to implement that with very dogmatic ideas of market economics being the only way to do anything.
 
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