Revere Ware Pots -- Stainless or Aluminum?

[Brent-Aucoin]

Greetings,
I know there are so many cooks out here in the Automaticwasher.org site.
This might come across as a dumb question....but are Revere Ware Pots Stainless or Aluminum steel? We have tons of the vintage Revere Ware in every pot that was ever made. My partner loves to cook in them because of the fast, and even heat, but we have had the stainless vs. aluminum argument for ages! My argument is that the vintage Revere Ware Pots are Aluminum. I can tell when I clean them. I can actually smell the Aluminum. (I am very sensitive to smells)
Also, what are you views with cooking with Aluminum? Do you think it is safe?
So, should I sell this huge set on eBay? Or do you think they are safe?
I did read on the internet from several pages that you should never store food in Aluminum in the fridge. Not that we do, but I thought that was interesting.
What are your thoughts?
Thanks
Brent

 

[danemodsandy]

Brent:

The answer to your question depends on what era of Revere Ware you're talking about, and what Revere Ware line.

If you're talking about the copper-bottomed Revere, that's stainless steel. It always has been, although there have been many other changes in that line over the years, mostly in the thickness of the copper bottom.

There are some Revere pieces made in the last few years that are the same shape as the stainless-and-copper pieces, but are made of alumimium with a non-stick lining.

For more information on other Revere lines, I highly recommend the link below:

http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeoywo4/theshineshop2/id1.html

 

[Brent-Aucoin]

Sandy,
Thanks for the information! All of the pots that we are using are the older, copper-bottomed Revere-Ware. So, your information is great to know.
I will look at your site that you posted a little better tomorrow when I am awake.
Thanks for your responds!
Brent

 

[danemodsandy]

Aluminium and Food:

Brent:

I spent about six years in the housewares biz back in the '80s, and also taught cooking during that time, and aluminium transfer to food was a big question for a lot of people. Here's what I used to tell them:

First, there is no proven causal link between aluminium cookware and Alzheimer's, which is what most people are scared of. If you use aluminium cookware, you should know the following:

1) Acid foods react with the metal, causing some aluminium to end up in the food. The longer the contact, the more transfer.
2) Fatty foods react hardly at all with the metal; very little aluminium ends up in the food.

Because of these factors, storage of acid foods is not recommended in aluminium. Aluminium bakeware is very unlikely to transfer any metal to baked goods, since fat is found in most baked goods.

Also, if anyone wishes to avoid aluminium altogether, I wish 'em lots of mazel- it's everywhere. It's in deodorants, pickles, and candied fruit. It's impossible to avoid if you eat any prepared food or restaurant food, because a lot of professional food equipment is aluminium. It's also found naturally in foods grown in areas where the soil is rich in bauxite, the ore from which aluminium is made (Alabama soil is very rich in bauxite in some areas, for instance).

For most people, not storing acid foods in aluminium pots should be quite sufficient precaution.

 

[gyrafoam]

Brent

What you are tasting may very well be in the water.
In the late 80's and early 90's the water in East Point was not bad right out of the faucet. In recent years however, I noticed a drastic difference in quality.

To see for yourself, run some cold water into a glass or light colored pan and let it cook down. It is a shock to see the sludge left behind once the water evaporates!

Sandy, you can say what you will, but every time I walk into a room and forget why I went in there, I'm going to blame those damn aluminum pots at the "Awful House".

 

[spaniel50]

Revere Ware

This is an interesting thread. I have my grandmother's original set of Revere Ware. She told the story that she bought it when it was first out, I think maybe in 1939. It is nothing like the Revere Ware you see today. You can now buy it in the grocery store!
Her set is all stainless steel with copper bottoms. It seems Revere Ware went the way of the Hoover Vacuum. They started out as very high quality and just went downhill for years. You can still buy a Hoover and you can still buy Revere Ware but the only thing that's the same is the name.
I learned to cook on Guardian Service and once you use it I never wanted to go back to the Revere Ware. I do think it is just a matter of preference(like some people just prefer a Hoover and some prefer a Electrolux). I will say that her old Revere Ware Set is just as good as the day she bought it and was used every day from 1939 till about 2005. I have a friend who collects old Revere Ware and he has some very interesting pieces like a square skillet. It terrible to try and cook anything in the skillets but it sure loks nice.

 

[panthera]

Revere Ware

I have been gradually rebuilding my mom's set of heavy copper bottom, stainless steel.
You do have to pay attention, there is a lot of cheap stuff out there which looks like it.
I find the saucepans made before the 1960's (I don't know the exact date of the change over, but it sure is there) are great to cook with. The later stuff is touchy - I think the copper is too thin.

Numerous studies have failed to establish any direct relationship between aluminum in the diet and Alzheimer's. There is, however, considerable evidence indicating that the aluminum 'deposits' are a result of the disease. Because the natural sciences don't speak in terms of faith but of reason, any time a 'scientists know' or 'researchers have found' report comes out, they are going to be hedging their bets.

Personally, I avoid aluminum whenever and where ever I can. I hate the taste of it. Yes, anal retentives, I know I am reacting to the galvanic reaction and not the actual scent, yada yada yada.

Copper and aluminum both should never be used to store or cook acidic foods. But it cuts both ways, you can use ketchup and salt to clean up really filthy copper bottom pans (this is a thread about Revere Ware after all) in nu.

 

[Brent-Aucoin]

Very Interesting Sandy and Steve,
I never really think about all of the aluminum that we are subjected to.
Steve, I can not agree with you more about the water here in EP. We are thinking about installing one of those "whole house" water filters. They really are not all that expensive, and I think I could install it myself. Our drinking water is filtered. I drink water all night. Sometimes I run out, and don't want to go to the kitchen for more, so I get it out of the sink in the bathroom. Yuck! It is a horrible, chemical taste. You think I would learn not to do that by now.
The whole reason that I asked this is because last night I was "polishing" several of them, and I noticed the black stuff coming off on the white towel from the inside of the pot. This was not visible to me before I started the process. I remember this black stuff when I would clean my moms Club Aluminum pots as a kid.
Thanks for the answers, and the memories of your family pots.
Brent

 

[danemodsandy]

Revere Ware Changeover:

According to the site I linked Brent to, the changeover in Revere Ware took place in 1968, and the logo on the bottoms of pieces will tell you which is which. Prior to 1968, the logo has the words "Process Patent" in it; those pieces have a fairly heavy copper bottom. After 1968, the words "Process Patent" do not appear, and the bottom's copper is much thinner, being more for show than utility.

Since 1968, my own experience with Revere Ware is that it has been further lightened up; it's even less heavy than it was in the 1970s.

So, look for the words "Process Patent" on the bottom if you want the old, heavy stuff.

 

[danemodsandy]

Brent:

Polishing of stainless steel with a cleaner like Cameo, or a metal polish like Simichrome or Wenol, will leave a black deposit of oxide on the polishing sponge or cloth. This is normal; even stainless steel has a layer of oxide on the outside if it is not freshly polished. It is absolutely nothing to worry about; all common metals throw oxides in some form or another.

 

[sudsmaster]

It depends...

I did a paper for a nutrition course at UC Berkeley in the early 70's on the alleged toxicity of chromium in stainless steel (prompted by a passage in the popular "Let's Eat Right To Stay Fit" books by Adelle Davis).

The conclusion from scouring the scientific literature was that there was no evidence that chromium as released by scouring stainless steel has any ill effects. A famous study in the 1930's involved feeding cats rather large amounts of such chromium salt (trivalent) with not ill effects.

Part of the hysteria about chromium is that like most metals, it can exist in several forms. The trivalent form is the form that would be encountered, if at all, in food cooked in stainless cookware. The hexavalent form of chromium, made famous in the Julia Roberts film Erin Brockovitch, is nasty stuff and will cause health problems. It's sort of like the difference between chlorine in table salt and that in chlorine bleach. Two different forms of the same element. One, harmless (in moderation); the other quite toxic.

That said, I don't think the jury is back in yet on the OTHER elements that are found in a lot of stainless steel - nickel, vanadium, molybdenum, manganese, etc. While nickel and iron are probably the only other main consituents to be found in cookware and flatware, it is known that nickel can cause skin irritation/sensitivity. Again, the form and dosage may be important considerations.

With regard to aluminum, it's one of the most common elements in the earth's crust. It's everywhere. Again, one needs to distinquish what form the aluminum is in. However I avoid antacids that contain aluminum - the ones with just calcium are just as effective, and I avoid using aluminum-containing anti-persperants - and I also avoid using uncoated aluminum cookware.

My mom had a whole set of stainless copper bottom Revereware in the 50's. It all got left behind when we trekked cross country with only what we could carry. I'm sure it was the heavy gauge stuff. I still have the small set I bought in the 70's - it worked well for decades and still is servicible if a bit worn. It's made in the USA, at least. But I've since replaced it with a combination of heavy gauge made-in-Italy aluminum core stainless (Costco) and heavy non-stick aluminum (Costco again), and even some non-stick Magnalite (Whole Earth Access). These days I prefer to use the stainless for steaming/boiling, the nonstick aluminum for omelets, and a big Magnalit fry pan for sauteing meats etc (most of the nonstick is gone where it counts, revealing a layer of stainless).

 

[danemodsandy]

Oh, dear- Adelle Davis

The works of Adelle Davis were a genuine and ongoing problem when I taught cooking; many people would come to a class and attempt to impose Davis's beliefs and advice on what was being taught, which for the most part was classical French cuisine.

I am not trying to start any arguments with anyone who believes Ms. Davis's writings, but I would like to offer the link below, which discusses her flagrant mis-quotation of sources, and has some discussion of the damages her estate paid after courts found that her advice had materially damaged the health of one child, and contributed to the death of another.

The Legacy of Adelle Davis | Quackwatch

Adelle Davis (1904-1974) was the first "health authority" among modern food faddists who had any formal professional background. She was trained i ...

www.quackwatch.com

 

[sudsmaster]

If it quacks like a duck...

Well, yes, Davis wrote her books in a sort of stream-of-consciousness with little regard for backing up the claims with bonafide scientific study references. The claim about chromium toxicity from stainless steel cookware is just one example.

Even so, there was a time when I feel that her most famous book, "Let's Eat Right to Keep Fit", was responsible for rescuing my own deteriorating health. I had left the dorms in college in 1970 and was fending for myself when it came to food. Let's just say that I had no idea of proper nutrition. Someone lent me her book and I started to eat much better. I learned that one cannot live on hot dogs alone, lol. I started paying attention to proper breakfast with protein, fresh vegetables cooked al dente, whole grains, etc. My health improved dramatically as a result. She had good advice on proper preparation of vegetables (fast steaming), and how to prepare a good roast chicken or turkey without it getting tough and dry (sear for 15 minutes at 450F, lower oven temp to 325 for remainder). Of course none of this was revolutionary, just sound food selection and preparation facts. But a lot of her passages left me scratching my head in puzzlement. Hers was a shotgun approach and I didn't follow her more outlandish advice. I think I bought a copy of her book "Let's Get Well" but soon tired of the frantic, unsubstantiated pace.

I could certainly see how those who believed Davis about more than just preserving food quality and vitamins would rebel against traditional French cooking. I would balance the allegation that she left behind a legion of misinformed people with the admonition that she helped greatly to popularize nutrition and people are not as dumb as one might think. Perhaps I am just an exception but I like to think she helped more people than she hurt.

 

[volvoguy87]

My pots & pans.

When I got my first apartment, I followed in my mother's footsteps and got myself a set of copper-bottom Revere Ware. All my life, I had used her set (circa 1975) with pretty good results. I am just shocked at how far Revere has fallen.
I wanted a set of copper bottom Revere so where did I go? I went to the Revere Ware store at Potomac Mills Mall. I thought that surely an entire store dedicated to Revere products would carry my pots. I was wrong! I finally found 1 box that had been overlooked by some VERY unhelpful/poorly trained staff that had that classic style with copper bottoms, and not the thick aluminum bottoms. I was thrilled! Although I had to go to Linnens n' Things to find the large Revere copper bottom kettle.

Well, things have changed! My set was not made in the USA. The metal is thin and tinny, and I think the copper bottom is just electro-plated on. They did not get along well with the stoves I had in my 1st apartment, or 2nd. The bottoms warped easily and the plastic knobs on the lids were poorly formed.

I take good care of my Revere Ware so it at least looks good. Rule #1, NEVER put Revere Ware through the dishwasher! I find that putting Revere Ware through the dishwasher turns the black plastic handles and knobs gray. When they turn gray they don't look as nice and the gray plastic seems to suck all the moisture out of my skin. I always hand-wash my Revere Ware and I always polish the copper after each use. I may replace my Revere Ware with something better in the future and use my Revere Ware as decoration, hung on my kitchen walls, all shiny and pretty.

I have a cast iron skillet (Yes, this IS your grandmother's pan!). I LOVE my cast iron skillet! It heats evenly, although slowly, so I have to pre-heat the pan, but it is an absolute joy to cook on. My only complaint is that on the Whirlpool smooth-top electric stove in my 2nd place, there wasn't a burner big enough for the pan. The cast iron skillet can cook so evenly, and cleanup is easy too! I just rinse it under hot water and wipe with a rag, I never use soap so I don't destroy the seasoning. If it is really dirty, I use copper wool with no soap and light scrubbing. I always wipe it down with a little canola oil before storing and I always dry it with a towel, rather than let it drip dry. My cast iron skillet is a perminant fixture on my stove, as is my big Revere kettle. Also, Bar Keeper's Friend powder is great for removing black stains on vintage Revere copper. I think it is abrasive, though, so I use it to remove black stains, and then use a more mild polish for keeping it shiny.

For baking, I love Corning Corn Flower, and I hope to eventually get my hands on some LeCruset (spelling?)

Cooking is fun!
Dave

 

[danemodsandy]

Dave:

You're so right about Bakelite in the dishwasher. The reason for the greying and dulling is that Bakelite is made of phenolic resin mixed with wood flour, a finely ground variant of sawdust. Since wood flour is an organic material, and since dishwasher detergents are specifically designed to attack organic material, Bad Things Happen.

Dulled Bakelite can be re-polished. If the dulling is really severe, begin with No. 0000 steel wool to smooth the surface. Next, put Brasso (yes, the brass polish) on a rag, and use that to polish the Bakelite exactly as you would metal. There is also a proprietary plastic polish called Novus, but I've had excellent results with Brasso, and it's much cheaper than Novus. It does take some elbow grease to do this, though.

The Shine Shop, whose site I linked to in the early part of this thread, re-polishes Bakelite routinely, with excellent results.

I collect vintage aluminium-clad Farberware, and Brasso has brought many a Bakelite handle back up to acceptable condition for me.

Just so's everyone will know, Revere Ware and Farberware are really sisters under the skin. Both are what are called "clad stainless", meaning that a layer of very heat-conductive metal has been applied to the bottom of a stainless utensil; stainless is a very poor conductor of heat. Revere Ware was introduced in 1939; it was made by electroplating a layer of copper to the bottom of each piece. Ten years later in 1949, Farberware was introduced, made by electroplating aluminium to the bottom of each piece. Copper is an excellent conductor; while aluminium is a little less conductive, it's also very much cheaper than copper, and you can always use a heavier layer to offset the difference in conductivity, which Farberware did. Aluminium also requires less maintenance to maintain its appearance.

Farberware's quality remained a lot more stable over the years than Revere Ware's did. While some lightening-up did occur in the later 1980's, early pieces are amazingly heavy, and even newer pieces are still a lot heavier than Revere. In recent years, Farberware production has been moved to Thailand, and a Cuisinart-style disc bottom has been substituted for the old electroplated one. I have three pieces of this stuff, and it's equal in cooking performance to the old clad production. Handles, knobs, and their attachments are still of high quality (and still available as replacement parts), unlike new Revere, which has become notorious for stripped lid knobs, with no replacements available from the manufacturer. The only problem with current Farberware is that the sizes are just the tinest bit different from the old stuff, so new double boiler inserts, lids, and steamer inserts may not fit your old stuff as tightly as older ones did.

I have to say that I prefer Farberware to even the early Revere, because the aluminium-clad bottom is so heavy and even-heating, and because it doesn't require the polishing that Revere does to stay looking good. A little Brillo on the bottoms is all that's needed to brighten them back up. Also, Farberware's straight-sided design on skillets helps their skillets hold a lot more than the slant-sided Revere ones. While a slant-sided skillet can sometimes aid in reducing liquids, I find no difficulties in doing this in Farberware.

 

[launderess]

Not Keen On Copper, even Copper

All that polishing! *LOL*

Most of my daily driver pots, are vintage WagnerWare.

 

[Brent-Aucoin]

Sandy,
Thanks for the information on "polishing" the pots. That makes lot's of sense to me now. I use "Bar Keepers Friend" in either liquid, or powder.
So, I guess the black on the towel that I was using would only be normal.
Thanks for all of your information, and "learning" me.
I feel much better now.
Brent

 

[danemodsandy]

Brent:

You're welcome. BTW, we must get together someday- I'd love to meet some Atlanta collectors, and I spent an awful lot of time in East Point when I was a kid, because my grandparents lived there (on Washington). It was a very different place back in the late 1950s and early 1960s. If you like, email me and we can exchange phone numbers. I'm in Cobb these days.

 

[polkanut]

I have several Revere saucepans, and frying pans that I've inherited and found at estate sales. These are older and have some decent heft to them. My wife also has her Mom's Rena-Ware from the mid 50's too. I love the feel of older cookware. It can't compare to today's "made in China" crap.