Saving my KDD-22

[estea]

Good morning to all ~

We inherited this Hobart/KA KDD-22 (apologies for the fuzzy photo below - and yes, that is chalkboard paint) from the previous owner when we bought our home 6 years ago, and despite our initial misgivings ("it looks so... old."), my husband and I now love this machine - we're so glad we couldn't afford to replace it at the time! Not a lot of fancy functions, but what a gem. It has worked like a dream until the past month or so. Now we've got little bits of food left on some things in top and bottom racks, all my glasses are coming out with residue on the outside, and nothing plastic is drying, which seems weird.

I don't use the new phosphate free detergent, so I don't think that's it - we stocked up on the phosphate stuff when we heard it was being phased out in KS. We periodically run vinegar through for mineral build-up (KC has hard water), so I've done that several times, cleaned the screens to within an inch of their lives, taken everything off down to the impeller and checked it for food or other blockage, poked into the holes of wash arms - all to no avail. Everything fills and drains fine, water is hot, no leaks. Checking it last night it seems that the bottom wash arm isn't spinning, or spinning sporadically, if that makes sense, and it doesn't have that super spraying action we're used to!

Anway, as I'm poking around this site, I see this thread:

Thread 23275

I wonder if this is the problem? I can pretty freely pull that little white piece holding the brass bushing up and down. When I spin the arms they don't seem to move as freely as they used to/should.

Here is a link to a photo of my wash arm support:

another tired wash arm support?

Also noticed that the O-ring or wash pump gasket ring as it is called on the Sears part page, was popped out about halfway. Stuffed it back in its groove but am assuming it should be all one piece and probably should be replaced?

And as for the plastics not drying - my daughter just said to me nothing seems completely dry (she empties the d.w.) even after heated dry cycle, so she's been opening the door and letting everything air dry, but the plastics stay wet much longer. uh oh.

Any input on this would be so appreciated. We are willing to put some time and money into this machine to keep it working for at least a little while longer (everyone I know complains about their newer dishwasher!), but have no idea where to look for parts, as it seems everything is discontinued, and I can't even find anyone on this site who owns my model! Anyone know if another model's parts will fit my KDD-22? Anyone have a wash arm support I can purchase? Is this machine even worth saving? Someone want to recommend a plumber/appliance guy in the KC area who won't tell me to ditch this oldie and go for something "with a motherboard"?

Thanks so much ~ I have learned an incredible amount perusing this place and am grateful for any and all opinions.

Estea

 

[peteski50]

KitchenAid!

I never saw this model before. Does it heat the water like the other 20 series?
Peter

 

[estea]

oh dear - my fear (since I can't find anything else about this model online) is that I own the last remaining KD22 and nothing is interchangeable...

not sure if you're asking me the water-heating question - sorry, don't have a clue! thinking I need to find a manual...

 

[estea]

corrected photo to show actual model #

 

[rp2813]

I think Steve, our resident Hobart expert will know about this one. Perhaps this bump will catch his eye.

Very interesting machine, and the blackboard is kind of a neat idea when you have kids, I guess.

 

[estea]

thanks for the bump, rp2813 - yes, the chalkboard was an "interesting" choice made when we had 3 toddlers and wanted to avoid dings in a stainless panel - and turned out to be so handy for grocery lists! My plan is for stainless insert to match the fridge IF we can get the awesome cleaning power back on track...

 

[estea]

doh

I feel like an idiot - my son said, "I'm pretty sure it's KDD-20, Mom, not 22" - and I just checked inside the machine again and turns out he's right. No idea why I'm thinking 22. Anyway, if someone could delete my *correction* post that would be great.

See what a state hand-washing dishes will leave you in??

 

[rp2813]

I knew it was older than a "22" series, so "20" is much more like it.

I'm confident the parts can be found to fix what's wrong.

 

[shininglight]

I am not sure if it is a mechanical problem but depending on where you are, hard water can clog up the spinners and pipe. There is a product out there called Dishwasher Magic. it will unclog the pipes and the residue will disseapear. You can use 5 cups of vinegar too and run on the hottest cycle with no dishes. Steve our expert can help out too.

 

[estea]

the plot: it thickens

well, no rush on the info now, as I may have cooked things up pretty well. She (KDD-20) wasn't draining this afternoon - finished cycle and still 3" water in the bottom, but not leaking that I could see. Left it sitting because I suspected it had to do with a clog somewhere in our drain line to the basement, as the main drain in the basement floor backed up twice in the last week while large loads of laundry were spinning out. Husband came home and assessed situation, tried to put timer to "drain" section and see if it would empty out. Pulled the toe-kicks and saw water was now streaming from underneath. bad feelings ensued.

We wondered if maybe I put things back together incorrectly when I went down to the impeller yesterday, so took everything apart again and put back together, cleaning as we went. Tried to run again - tub started to fill, water began to leak out underneath OVER the motor, sparks, curses,then filling stopped, unit just hums, etc. etc.

Disconnected from power now, and we've pulled it out, I took everything apart again inside and see that the drainage hole at bottom has standing water in it. sigh. Also, the washer and that funny looking little screw holding down the impeller had loosened during the last go-round.

So a clog in the lines somewhere between the kitchen and main drain could have forced the water out through a leaky main tub seal over the motor, right?

And we fried the motor, right?

thanks for listening. I think we probably need to find a good repairman asap.

Estea

 

[estea]

hmmmm

anyone still out there?

perhaps this should be a new thread, but this morning at ReStore I found a KUDI21DS2 - - - no rust inside/stainless tub looks fine, didn't check underneath but I don't really know what else to look for, and if it is a decent machine - I know it's not as old as my KDD20. A friend of mine is the manager there and she was told "it works" by the people who donated it...

Also saw a CL Supreme Insinkerator sitting nearby, looked pretty rough.

is it silly for newbs like us to buy such a machine without having any idea how to repair it (should it need help) other than the good advice provided on this forum??

Estea

 

[neptunebob]

Not silly,

Go ahead and buy it. If it does need repairs some of us know what to tell you. I was working on an even older model and might do something like that.

Don't feel bad I fried a motor too.

 

[stevet]

Fried???

Sounds like when you "reassembled" the pump you did not shim the seal and impeller correctly, you tore the rubber on the seal or you broke the ceramic seating surfaces of the seal. Also, the funny "keyed: washer has to fit in properly over the impeller but also on to the shaft of the motor properly and the thick washer underneath it faces down and the two bevelkled washers sit with their points facing up and then the screw gets tightened down. I cannot tell you how many times my techs would assemble it wrong like that and have a seal leak on them.
Hard water would not likely clog the water passages so much as to block all the water from circulating. If anyone has that problem, forget the vinegar and get a water softener already since every pipe in the house must be just as clogged.

The machine may be toasted now, but for the record, the correct model number will be listed on the left side of the tank where the inner door would meet the seal, about half way up. That will have the exact model number. I have seen KDA and KDB series but don't recall a KDD series and it is definitley not a 22 series as the control panel was very different than your pics. The A and B series were often Builders models and lacked some of the bells and whistles of the more standard units.
The KUDI21 is a fine machine as are the CL(assic) Insinkerators. The Insikerator was the same unit as a Kitchenaid and both will do a great job of cleaning your dishes.

But IIRC, the last stainless steel tank that was available was the Model 18 series, but you never know what Whirlpool may have offered at some time or in a specific market at the time.
CHeck the model number which is in the same place as I described above to be sure.

Good Luck with this labor of love.

 

[rp2813]

The KUDI21 sounds like a great replacement. It probably works fine and was a victim of a remodel. Highly likely to be a plug-and-play affair. I had a KUDI21 for 18 years and never had a problem with it. It sounded the same from the day it was installed until the day we sold the house.

The 21 series isn't 100% Hobart, but it's close enough. Save yourself some time and money, get the KUDI21 and switch out the machines. This is as good an excuse as any to move up from your entry-level model.

 

[rollermatic]

i'm curious as to how the 21 model

is not 100% hobart? i have a 21 in my collection as well as a 23 and several 18's and 19's. i know the 21 was the first model to use the reversing motor as opposed to the single direction motor and drain valve that all previous models used.

but i have always been taught by everyone here that kitchenaid was 100% hobart up thru the 22 models. i thought this was when the sell out to whirlpool and design changes started?

 

[rp2813]

Pete, I hope you're right, but IIRC, the KDS20 that RCD sent home with me (when I picked up the '57 GE Combination fridge from him) was billed as "the last of the Hobart-made" KA's.

I thought the 21 series was a transitional "Whirlbart" model, and when the 22's debuted they were entirely Whirlpool's product.

I would be thrilled if the KUDS22 I eventually end up with turns out to be all Hobart, but that is not the impression I've had from various threads that have appeared here.

Maybe Steve will be able to confirm one way or the other.

Inquiring minds want to know!

 

[rollermatic]

here's the hobart production chart

for kitchenaid that lists dates for production of the various models.

i see the 21 model was from 4-84 thru 2-89. it's my guess that the 21 was the last true hobart kitchenaid after all. maybe i'm wrong here. i don't even see a 22 and later listed. i know my 23 model has a funky model number, unlike all earlier ones.

i'm sure steve will tell us when he sees this.

 

[rp2813]

I've seen that list before. It seems correct because when we bought our KDI21, it was late summer of 1990. The machine was in the "bargain" room of the appliance dealer because it had a small dent in a control panel trim piece. It was priced less than a brand new Whirlpool, and as soon as we saw it, we knew it was the best and smartest buy.

Thinking back on it now, by that time the 22 series is what must have been on the showroom floor, and that's why our Imperial was in with the odds & ends.

So now the question is, did the 21 series continue production after Whirlpool took over? Are there 21's that are completely Hobart and others that aren't?

I think the blue dispensers are indicative of Hobart. Whirlpool changed them to white, I'm guessing when they moved some of the in-door electrical components around from the way Hobart had them configured, but I'm only guessing.

Pete, I think you are correct about the Hobartness of the 21's and 22's. Aren't the 23's the machines that started Whirlpool's move away from Hydrosweep system?[this post was last edited: 11/19/2010-11:37]

 

[rollermatic]

not sure,

i have a 23 and it has a hydrosweep of a sort and the funkiest looking pump set up i have ever seen on a kitchenaid.

got it here in cinti for about 20 bucks 2 years ago, tried it out once and have never looked at it since! i know it has electronic controls but since i am a die hard "old" kitchenaid fanatic i found nothing about it i liked. give me a kds-17a anytime!

i can post a pic or two of the pump and hydrosweep if you like.