Self cleaning ovens with hidden bake element

[mitch]

Wow!

That was GREAT customer service from Sears--kudos to them! That is the way Sears used to do things. Glad they got you hooked up with 4 racks!

Glad to hear you are liking the new range--interesting about the different convect modes for multi-rack/single rack baking. I wonder if it affects the fan speed and/or does something with the temp.

I think I am going to time mine on how fast the big oven gets to 350-which seems like a long time. It may just be that I am used to the smaler oven being so fast.

Thanks for the additioinal info!

 

[redcarpetdrew]

Just remember that because it says 'preheated' doesn't mean it really is. The oven sensor will say 'I've reached, say, 350' but the actual metal oven cavity is still coming up to that temp. In the business, we let the oven actually cycle about 2-4 times before finally checking temps for a more accurate reading. I've noticed that the hidden bake element units will actually signal preheated about 25-50 or thereabouts below the desired temp then slowly coast up to it.

RCD

 

[sudsmaster]

Drew makes a good point. Typically for most stuff (pizzas and such) I just wait until the P-7 lower element cycles off, which takes about five minutes. I keep a good oven thermometer hanging from the broil element (never use broil) and check that as well. But just because the thermometer says "375" and the bottom element has cycled off, doesn't mean that all parts of the oven are up to temp. For baking bread or cakes I'd probably also wait until the element had cycled on and off a few more times before loading the oven with product. For frozen pizza, or a tray of fish sticks, who cares?

 

[jerrod6]

I've had a Bosch Gas range with an electric oven since 2005. So far no problem with the concealed element. Although I do many things on the convection bake setting which doesn't use the lower element as it instead blows heat out of the back of the oven over the food.

No problem during self cleaning. I am not sure what elements are in use, but there is no fan sound so I don't think the convection part is being used.

Still no problems.

 

[mitch]

Well I tried it

Drew--that is something I did not know---thank you for bringing that to my attention. I started the big oven preheating at 4:25 PM EDT, using standard bake (no convection) with 350 as the target temp. At 4:41 is chimed that it was up to temp. So, yeah, I think it is slower to preheat as opposed to a regular element--basing this on ovens we have had in the past.

 

[mitch]

And ready

4:41 350 degrees

 

[mitch]

No element

Interior showing the floor--plus it is one of the few times it is sort of clean

 

[daveamkrayoguy]

Seems to be a contradiction to have a self-cleaning oven & never use (and yes, I'm way behind on cleaning the oven in my dad's range; mom refused to use the very feature she'd prided herself on buying a new range for in 1982 & by 2006 had gone through one more to get that one that is there now!) at least according to what I've read in the article, while the feedback in terms of comments are the usual variety of agreement, disagreement, support, non-support, like & dislike...

My gas range I merely used the pre-set 3 hours for to get a fair job & only wonder if setting it to the "Hi" setting to obtain 4 hours would have made a difference in a cleaner oven?

("Lo" makes a 2 hour cleaning, of which w/ a little more use of the oven & more frequent use of the S/C feature would break the same results, though my GE P-& electric way back in the days of my apt., set to similarity would really have beaten it...!)

-- Dave

 

[kb0nes]

Time to Temp

I've been following this thread with some interest. I have a KitchenAid Convection range that is about 10 years old. It has an exposed bake element. I was unaware that some ovens will reduce the set temp if you are using the convection mode, I wonder if mine is like that.

I have a few decent data gathering instruments so last night I ran a time to temp. I set the oven to 350 F standard Bake cycle. The oven signaled being at temp in 8:57. I attached a photo of the meter.

I'll export the data and create a better graph to share. I'll also run a convection mode test and overlay that too. It would be really interesting to see one of the hidden element ovens time to temp graphed like this. I'll have to see if I know of one I can test. I'll probably post results in a new thread so as not to hijack.

 

[redcarpetdrew]

As a tech, ohhhh the fun I could have with that meter... Fun fun fun!

RCD

 

[tomturbomatic]

My Farberware convection oven's use & care manual greatly ephasizes the necessity of reducing the baking temperature in the recipe by 25F unless the temperature is 300F, like for chocolate pound cake. With computerized oven controls, this is done automatically.

 

[jerrod6]

I think the current models probably do the reduction automatically. Mine from year 2005 does not. Instead the manual recommends you do the reduction manually. Sometimes I do, Sometimes I don't and just remove the contents when I see it's the right time.

Hard to believe my unit is this old but I have never had one problem with it.
For me It's one of those "this was a very good idea to purchase" items.

 

[jerrod6]

So what is the temperature fluctuation on that screen? It almost looks like 50 degrees

 

[kb0nes]

Jerrod,

Indeed there is a wide variation in measured temperature due to the hysteresis in the control. Its not quite 50 deg F but close. I wonder if the radiation from the bake and broil elements was influencing the thermocouple which I had dead center in the oven cavity. I plan to re run the test but with some foil radiation shields above and below the thermocouple.

 

[mitch]

I like the way this is going

That Fluke meter is cool--I inherited a Fluke Ohm meter from my dad that I love. It is interesting seeing all the feedback on these ovens and everyone's expereinces with them.

One other gripe with my KA range is the control panel is ubber sensitive--you can just brush up against it cleaning or leaning and before you know it you have set it to do "something" you did not want it to do! We usually lock it out. On the old oven you really have to press the pad to get it going--under most circumstances you would not accidently turn it on.

 

[magic_clean]

It's

desirable to have a certain amount of temperature swing to achieve good browning results when baking and roasting.

 

[redcarpetdrew]

To be sensitive or not to be...

They're designed to be that way for customers who have a hard time activating those keypads due to problems with their hands. Good or not, marketing rules the designs more than the engineers do. As for techs having a say in anything, well... we always get to sit outside in the waiting room.

RCD

 

[tomturbomatic]

Phil, it might be interesting to put the thermocouple inside a covered metal pan without it touching any surface to get an idea of the stability of the temperature during a period of oven operation without radiant heat from the elements affecting it. I'm thinking of when your brother first tried a freezer alarm in his frostless freezer. It would go off during defrost, but when the sensor was placed in a container of water, the ice did not vary in temperature during the defrost periods.

 

[foxchapel]

Seems to be a contradiction to have a self-cleaning oven & n

I agree completely. These new ovens are a joke. Hidden bake element in our new oven, so must pre-heat for 30 minutes. Such a waste of electricity, not to mention the nice fan that will blow the heat into an already warm kitchen in order to save the computer circuitry from frying. We can not use the self-cleaning system, or it will fry the computer circuits. And owner's manual says to use mild soap and water to clean the interior of the oven. As IF! Can not use oven cleaners or the oven paint finish is destroyed. They don't make 'em like they used to.

@mitch - I'm sorry you hate your glass top stove. We have an induction cooktop and absolutely love it. Spills clean up so easily, cast iron is not a problem. It is the best thing in our kitchen.

 

[mitch]

Luck push

Well the weather is finally warm enough to open windows to allow the self-cleaning fumes to go outside. I am running the self-clean cycles on the little, old KA oven as it needs cleaning badly! I took the default cycle of 3.5 hours. Let's hope I do not burn up any boards or circuits!

Oh, I am trying the trick of placing the chrome racks covered in oven cleaner in a black trash bag sealed up in the sun. First time I have tried this--hope it works! I will reply back with the results if anyone is interested.

Thanks,
Mitch