Shaft Seal shenanigans on a KDS-15 KitchenAid

[swestoyz]

Hey Gang -

With the counter tops finally in place I jumped at the opportunity this afternoon to change out some parts on the KDS-15 to get her 'road worthy.' The goal is to run a load of Sunday dishes upstairs for the first time!!

The original drain impeller was that of the bakelite variety (new replacement is rubber). I'm not sure what the original shaft seal looked like due to it being removed in pieces.

The trouble I'm having is a strange noise coming from the seal. I've run the motor free from seals/impellers with no indication that the noise is from the motor itself.

I've made sure that the shaft seal is nicely seated. It does hold water. I've made sure to use the original amount of three shims + the o-ring (placed between the shims and the drain impeller).

The wash action sounds pretty good, I'm just not sure what this noise could be besides the seal itself. Do the newer impeller/seals require less shims than the originals? Is there a break-in requirement that I am missing?

The original service lit is fairly vague besides saying - install in reverse.

Thanks in advance -

Ben

 

[rollermatic]

i have replaced

a bunch of them as i have a bunch of kitchenaids. i always use the same amount of shims that i took out. some were two, some three. i have never had any special noise problems coming from a new seal. and i have never had a seal leak after replacement. the only machine that ever gave me a problem was a kd-19 but that is another story. i ended up replacing the entire pump on that ill fated machine. all my kd-17 and earlier machines have been as simple as pie to rebuild. i've never heard of a break in period, perhaps someone else may know something. if it doesn't leak you're off to a good start!

good luck!

 

[gyrafoam]

Combo52 will know.

 

[magic clean]

Ben

try lubricating the carbon & ceramic seal surfaces with rinse aid.

 

[toploader55]

KitchenAid

Calling Dr stevet, Dr.stevet.....

 

[swestoyz]

Leslie - will do.

I was afraid of starting the machine with a dry seal, so I did pour a few cups of water into it to provide some sort of lubrication.

If the rinse aid doesn't work, I'll try swapping the seal out in the KDS-17. If it indeed still makes the same noise I'll be ordering a few more impeller/seals (hell, I may end up using the KDS-17 anyway.)

Ben

 

[bigalsf]

Have you tried removing one shim, or adding an additional? Each seal "set" will create a slightly different clearance for the wash pump impeller...the impeller will be slightly higher or lower allowing it to graze the pump housing. If it's just grazing the surface it can sound like a high pitched whistle, only at a very low volume. Hope that helps.

 

[stevet]

Big Al hit it on the head!

While the "rule of thumb" is to shim it all out with the same amount of shims you take out, there is a specific clearance to aim for. There was a tool called a "touch/clear" gauge which needs to be used for a perfect fit. If you are not in a great hurry to finish the job, I can send you mine and you can use it and then return it as I don't have many of the older pumps that need to be worked on. I keep the tool for sentimental reasons and of course, for occasions like this!
What you should do in the meantime is pull the pump apart once more and make sure that the drain impeller is not scraping the housing by pressing down on it while turning it. If that is okay, then check the wash impeller for signs of scraping which would mean you need to remove a shim. However,they did have different thickness shims so you may have to mess with a combination of shims. It sounds harder than it actually is to do but you should be able to succeed in this project without too much difficulty.
Below is a diagram and some instructions to show you how we did it back in the day!

 

[swestoyz]

Well guys, this afternoon I played around with various arrangements of shims. The noise started to get better but eventually it would come back regardless of the shim level. There seems to be clearance for both impellers from my best judgment.

After playing with the 15 and seeing that she is actually not that far away from a permanent rest due to the tank going bad, I've decided to throw the towel in on it. I'm going to get the 17 road worthy now with a new set of seals and a wash arm support.

Ben