Should I Reduce?

[Unimatic1140]

I bought a bunch of Mexican detergent a few weeks ago and I have been using it, but I'm still wondering how much to use. The instructions on the back of the package (in Spanish) show some kind of measuring scoop (it looks like those nasty plastic green scoops that come with American detergent) but no scoop is included in any of these packages. I was wondering if they mean 1 American style cup of detergent, but it seems like this might be too much. These detergents produces lots of good suds in the wash, but the rinse water is way to cloudy and has suds as well. I want a nice heaping layer of suds in my wash, especially in machines like my Super Unimatic because the suds act as a lint filter in the outer cabinet, but I don't want any suds in the rinse. Both vintage and modern American detergents don't seem to have this sudsing problem in the rinse. Viva by far seems to be the worst offender and Roma seems to rinse out the best. So my question to you guys/gals who use these detergents is how much do you use in your machines????

 

[frigilux]

I use a maximum of 1/3 of a standard detergent scoop in the FL'er and a maximum of 3/4 of a scoop in the TL'er----that's for Ariel, Viva and Ace. I once used a heaping detergent scoop of Ariel on a load of bath towels and dealt with a huge suds-lock problem in my TL'er. The only time the nuevo Frigi has ever locked up, in fact.

Nick the cat (yes, he's still with me) loves Ariel. At first he was content to sit over the open washer and breathe it in, but lately he's taken to pawing open my detergent cabinet and going after the bag!

 

[bobbyderegis]

HOLY SUDZCAKES!

Unimatic,
I use Roma and Foca, and use 1 to 1 1/2 cups in my Big Tub Maytag, depending on how dirty and oily the clothes are. I notice the blue Foca sudses less, and the machine will come to full spin speed right after the spray rinse. Roma, on the other hand, takes work to get rid of the suds. I stop my 'Tag during the spray rinse, let it fill up a bit, start it draining, and repeat this until it clears. I double rinse with both. The scent of blue Foca is very nice, almost reminds of old Rinso. The cleaning ability is fabulous. My whites never looked so white, with no other additives. I'm sure it's causing quite a strain on the motor and belts, so I try to clear the sudslock right away.
Bobby in Boston

 

[hoover1060]

Where do you guys buy this stuff?

1 1/2 cups seems like way too much detergent to me, but then again I grew up in a house with a water softener, and a mom who was always afraid we'd use too much soap!

Forgive me Robert, I use the nasty green scoop, 1/2 full of regular flavor Tide powder for a full load in the Maytag. the Tide rinses pretty well too.

I suds locked my Maytag once, it scared the daylights out of me, during the spray rinse the spin slowed down considerably! I quick grabbed the fabric softener and poured some in, and the suds went away, and the spin speed came back up.
The Maytag is too prescious to me to want to risk that again!

 

[pdub]

Ariel Oxi-Azul

Robert- I use about a tablespoon of the Ariel in the 1-18 and I find that it's more than adequate suds. I do usually run a second rinse though, especially with towels. I really like the scent of Ariel the best of all the Mexican detergents.

I also have some Ariel 'Bajaespuma' that I haven't opened yet since it seems like it may have been discontinued, or at least not available in the US anymore.

Patrick

 

[pdub]

Oh- and maybe I use so much less due to the fact that our water is very soft.

Patrick

 

[Unimatic1140]

Thanks for the good info guys. I think what I should do is take one of those nasty green American detergent scoops and pour in 1/2 and 3/4 full of Mexican detergent and then pour that into a Pyrex measuring cup and remember those levels. I guess using one full Pyrex cup of Mexican detergent is too much for a clear rinse. We have pretty soft water too, but my issue is not suds-locking as machines like my Super Unimatic handle gobs suds beautifully and do not suds-lock, my issue is just suds in the rinse water which I do not like.

Roma, on the other hand, takes work to get rid of the suds.
Bobby it's funny that I found Roma to be the least sudsiest of all of these detergents and you find it more sudsy. It might have to do with the diffence in agitation style between a Maytag and a Frigidare, but I do find that very interesting.

This pictue below shows the perfect suds level for catching dog hair and lint during the recirculation. I can usually build that nice level of suds many American non-HE detegents and the rinse is clear, but with the Mexican detergents the suds level can come up half way up the cabinet window and then my rinse water is full of suds as well from soap left in the clothes. If I put it through a second rinse the water is much clearer, but I would like to avoid using a second rinse if possible. My solution is less detergent, I think I'm going to try 1/2 a cup and see what happens.

 

[bobbyderegis]

Unimatic, I wonder if the suds difference could be the hardness of the water? I really don't know the hardness of Boston's water supply, although I know it isn't super soft.

Frigilux, my old cat is insane with trying to get into the bag of Foca! He drives me nuts when I'm in the laundry room.

Hoover, I'm always afraid using too little detergent will yellow whites and create dingy clothes. I always tend to re-rinse most loads. It's a carry-over from my grandmother, who insisted on double rinsing everything.

Bobby in Boston

 

[andyelectrolux]

!!!!!!!!!!!!

Robert! What kind of washer is that?? Do they all dump the water out in the outer case like that when they spin? It's probably cause I'm clueless when it comes to washers, but that seems strange.

 

[hoover1060]

used to...

I used to double rinse too, especially with my former Amana washer, its spray rinse started sometimes before the tub was even empty of water!
The 608 Maytag rinses way better, I do usually check to see what the rinse looks like, if its too sudsy I'll give it another rinse.
I also find that{{GASP}}the cheapie PANK fabric softener helps get rid of suds...

Robert I'll do the measure thing too and see how much it comes out to be with a Pyrex cup. I'll post a pic later of what I get.

 

[Unimatic1140]

Robert! What kind of washer is that?? Do they all dump the w

Hi Andy, no not all, but some early machines did. As for the washing machine in the picture above please see thread:

Imperial Forum Thread# 12889

"A New Interface for the Super Unimatic 2.0"

 

[DADoES]

I use a powdered drink scoop for measuring, which is 1/8 cup (1 oz.) on a Pyrex cup. Typically for a full load I use 7 scoops of Ariel, Foca, Roma, or Ace. Down from there for smaller loads, lower water levels, to 2 or 3 scoops. Sudsing varies depending on amount of soil in the load and whether there's a little softener residue in the machine from the previous load. Foca and Roma tend to suds the most. Sometimes depending on load characteristics I use a small dose for the F&P's EcoActive phase, then add more for the deep wash phase. The water needs to feel slippery for a proper dose in the deep wash.

 

[danemodsandy]

Bobby in Boston:

"Hoover, I'm always afraid using too little detergent will yellow whites and create dingy clothes. I always tend to re-rinse most loads. It's a carry-over from my grandmother, who insisted on double rinsing everything."

Interesting! One of the most welcome changes when I got centre-dial 'Tags was that I didn't feel I needed to double-rinse any more. On my former DD Whirlys, I sometimes did, and my housemate always did. Now even he feels he can just "set it and forget it", which is really going some, because he's a control freak. I don't think there was really any real rinse problem with most of his loads, but he saw me double-rinse a load ONE TIME and that was it- he just had to do that.

I wonder if our water here is the reason for the difference? Is Boston's water hard or soft?

 

[andrewinorlando]

Robert-

I use about 1/4 cup of the Ariel in the Calypso for a full load, and 1/3 cup if it's extra filthy. I have hard water here. Ace is the worst sudser, and 1/8 - 1/4 cup is sufficient, depedning on soil level. Towels require very little. For smaller loads, I measure by the tablespoon.

 

[sudsmaster]

Andy,

To expand on Robert's reply a little, only older machines with a "solid" inner wash basket would generally use the outer cabinet as a catch-all for water that is spilled or spun out of the wash basket. The inner basket acts as the wash tub and the wash basket, because it can hold all the water it needs. For this reason solid tub machines are somewhat more water-efficient than perforated wash basket machines, since there is no need to fill the gap between an inner wash basket and an outer wash tub with water in order to submerge the wash load (which wastes a few gallons).

I didn't realize the difference until Robert constructed with "front window Unimatic" so that we could all clearly see the benefits of a solid tub/cabinet drain type of design.

 

[buffster]

Robert... that front window is too cool!

My knowledge of automatic washers is fairly limited. Can you or anyone on this site recommend a good reference book that provides the history and evolution of the automatic washer. Much appreciated.

Mike

 

[gansky1]

A book on automatic washing?

Jon is still writing it... Oops, I think Jon assigned me a chapter - and I'm still working on that - Robert, are you done with your chapter?

All joking aside, it would be a fantastic idea - a nice coffee-table book with lots of ads, pictures, patents, and text. I'll bet we could sell a few!

Lee Maxwell has a book on the history of washing machines, but his book doesn't get into the automatics much. It's a great book though, very interesting. "Save Women's Lives" (see link to Lee's site)

http://www.oldewash.com/

 

[buffster]

Thanks Greg...

I think the idea of creating a coffee table type reference and picture book is brilliant. There is such a wealth of knowledge within this group. It would be wonderful, and potentially lucrative, to capture it in a book for posterity.

I work with a wonderful graphic designer and book publisher. Each has extensive experience in information design, packaging, and book layout design. Perhaps we should explore this further.

Call me.

Mike

 

[hoover1060]

I measured...

Tide that is
Here it is in the green scoop...

 

[hoover1060]

for this much laundry...

two pairs of shorts, couple of T-shirts, some undies and socks, and gym stuff

 

[hoover1060]

in the Pyrex cup

just over 1/3 cup...

 

[Unimatic1140]

1/2 cup is the ticket!

Thanks Rich, that is a better explanation, I forgot to mention you could only do that with a solid tub washer.

Mike there has never been a book written on the history of the automatic washer. I'm sure if there was one out there, one of us would have found it by now. Jon keep typing LOL.

So tonight I used 1/2 Cup of Foca in the Super Unimatic with MUCH BETTER RESULTS! Thanks guys for your advice, I could probably even get away with using less. My goal here is for heaping suds in the wash and NO suds during the rinse and 1/2 cup seemed to have achieved this goal. They did look nice and clean after the cycle was completed. Of course I took pictures of my wash. This picture though is my favorite, it illustrates why I like to have suds in the Super Unimatic during wash…. The rest of the pictures are in the link below. By the way, I’m going to bring this machine to the Omaha wash in, so anyone who is at the VCCC convention will get to see it in action.

http://automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/00ShowCollectionGETD.cgi?dir=/COLLECTIONS/_HALF_CUP_OF_FOCA

 

[hoover1060]

after a few minutes of agitation

not an abundance of suds....

 

[sudsmaster]

Robert,

I'm torn between fascination and disgust at all that dog hair floating on the suds... black labrador? LOL.

Anyway, that reminds me of another reason you've told us a solid tub is better: during the drain/spin, the lint (dog hair etc) flows up and over the top of the solid wash basket, not through the load as may happen with a perforated tub. The result may be less lint left on the fabrics and more lint down the drain. Some machines add an "overflow rinse" where excess rinse water is added during rinse agitation so it can help flush suds and lint out before the drain/spin action is started. Nowadays, I suppose, such a feature would be abhorred by conservationists where every drop of water must be accounted for. But I gather it worked rather well for rinsing!

 

[westyslantfront]

Hi Robert. Some machines are ok when I use Viva such as the
Norgetag and the '79 center dial Maytag because they do not
have as vigorous agitation as the Kenmores or 1-18.
And Viva sure does clean. I once did a load in Tide powder,
then re-washed in Viva which got out the dirt that
Tide did not.

Ross

 

[jetcone]

Hey Bobby

Where do you buy FOCA in Boston???

Jon

 

[gyrafoam]

I use the green scoop from the box of Fab powder. Makes no difference to me whether I use Viva (for whites), Paloma (for towels), or Ariel (for colors), A heaping scoop for a full load----a level scoop if I plan on adding Clorox. Of course, certain machines are off-limits to the Mexican stuff. Any Whirly/'Kenmo,or the 1-18. I agree that the Viva seems to make more suds then the others. I've managed to lock up the '69 SQ and the Maytag A612. However, the '64 Highlander seems totally immune. Go figya.

 

[Unimatic1140]

Great Pictures Jeff, is that all the suds you got in the Maytag? I suppose there would be a little more with Viva?

Anyway, that reminds me of another reason you've told us a solid tub is better: during the drain/spin, the lint (dog hair etc) flows up and over the top of the solid wash basket, not through the load as may happen with a perforated tub. The result may be less lint left on the fabrics and more lint down the drain. Some machines add an "overflow rinse" where excess rinse water is added during rinse agitation so it can help flush suds and lint out before the drain/spin action is started. Nowadays, I suppose, such a feature would be abhorred by conservationists where every drop of water must be accounted for. But I gather it worked rather well for rinsing!

That is exactly true Rich, but adding a 15 gallon a minute recirculation to the wash cycle is like a Solid Basket on steroids while only adding 2 extra gallons of water to the system to keep the pump a full pressure. That is why by the end of the 20 minute wash and soak all the dog hair (yes she's a black lab) is stuck in the outer tub suds layer. Solid Basket GE Filter-Flo's are the same way, except you need to clean the filter. But it's the best way to remove dog hair, lint and other schmootz.

 

[hoover1060]

dumb question here...

do I want more suds than that?

I want to know where you guys buy the Foca and other stuff too!

 

[Unimatic1140]

do I want more suds than that?

I don't think so Jeff, which the exception of Geoff's Maytag, the others I have seen do not produce that high of a suds level. It probably has to do with the long slow stroke of the agitator.

I bought those Mexican detergents here at a local Mexican grocery.