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It's not just custom . . .

The reason many hospitals may not use the term "Doctor" for those who have a medical education but are not yet licensed is that it may be illegal to do so. In many states one may not use a professional designation subject to state licensure unless one is licensed. In the case of an intern, he has a doctorate but since medical licensure requires an internship that he has yet to complete he isn't legally a doctor.

While some of this may sound silly, it's important as there is no way for the state to verify that every school which grants doctorates is truly legitimate - a quick perusal of the net will bring forth plenty of "doctorates" in various professions, including medicine, which aren't worth the paper they're written on. The state can however control both the testing and experience required for licensure, and the eligibility to take the test in the first place. Thus, once a professional is licensed it can be seen that he's met at least the minimum standards for his license, and the use of a professional designation is a perk of that process.
 
I am associated with a teaching institution and am involved with residency programs as an administrator and paper pusher. Intern is their first year after medical school. After that, they are reffered to as resident. In the state of Texas, they may obtain a medical licence while they are in training for a residency program, but that's not usually allowed until after their first year (intern). They may moonlight with the medical license, but they are still restricted to 80 hours a week on average over 4 weeks whether that be while moonlighting or during their training time. Once they finish a residency, they are board-eligible to become board-certified in their specialty. So, once they receive their MD after medical, they are free to hang their shingle out and practice, they just may never sit for a board exam and become board-certified in any knd of specialty. Many people greet them as Doctor XXX once they start their residency training, I'm not one who usually does unless it's in a public forum such as a meeting.
 
ptcruiser51

for many, the parade has not only passed them by, it has runned them over.....twice....a little humor...

on another note..........
Don't think of yourself as old...think VINTAGE...we are what we collect....I was always attracted to older men, they had good looks, maturity, knowledge, experience, knew what they wanted, better than any "blow in their ear to give them a refill TWINK" out there!...but thats my opinion/experience!mine is actually 3 years senior to me...we didn't meet until I was 26, young in a way, but maturity for both on a higher level, who knew, it just happened...for those young ones who turn you down, they don't know what their missing, all they really wanted is a Sugar Daddy, as for the DRAMA, you don't need it or them...

and for a quick "power of prayer"...lets take a few seconds and send good thoughts out to Vern...he needs some good KARMA sent his way...thats why were here for everybody...
 
Sudsmaster

Don't worry hun, I wasn't offended in anyway by your joke, I just wasn't in that great of a mood. I all ready have many women as close friends, which is what keeps me from going completely insane lol. As for taking up the offers of being "just friends" with these guys, I have tried many times with no success. To me it's a way of them telling me that they don't want to really keep in touch with me at all, but don't want to be totally rude and come out and say that. So I end up getting the "lets be friends" speech when I honestly know, it won't even go that far. I can be friends with someone I've once dated and be totally ok with it. I did with one friend for a few years, but then we just drifted apart, as some friendships do. So I do appreciate your help and advice Sweety. As usual I just gotta try again, or just say fuck it all for now. I sometimes want to get to the point where if someone does show interest in me I just want to act like a total bitch and act like I'm not impressed. Something tells me I may have better luck since that seems to be the way these guys around here are. You know, play hard to get.
 
Thank you all!

And I do want to personally thank all of you for your kind words and support. You've given me some great advice and are starting to pick up my spirits. You have no idea how thankful and grateful I am for that. It's so heartwarming to know that there are some good, quality gay men out there that I can connect with, who have been through the same shit I've been going through for the past 12 years. My mom once told me that I'll meet many, many frogs before meeting "The One". My only question is, how the hell many more do I have to go through lol.
 
Well, here I am at near age 55 and a thankless and unproductive journey the last 8 years--nothing to show for it but rejection and hurt. Add to this, I live where no one wants to come and live unless you really like small town living. But I have to stay here for economic and retirment medical benefits reasons. Someone actually wants to stop on their way back to Dallas and take me out for dinner--a friend of a guy I used to work with. We will see. Otherwise, those around here are all twinks and under 30 (no THANK YOU) or they're already hitched, and the ones who aren't hitched, just wanna play around--again NO THANK YOU!!! What's a poor cute, adoreable middled aged bear to do.
 
I still think there's a difference between casually telling a social acquaintance "I'm a doctor" and actually setting up a medical office without a license - or passing oneself off as a doctor to anyone in need of medical help - or passing oneself off as a doctor in a professional situation - when one hasn't jumped through all the hoops as yet.

"I'm a doctor" may just be a quick way of conveying "I got my MD from medical school, I'm in my first year of internship at XYZ Hospital, wanna go out for a date?". I agree it's not being totally forthright but OTOH I don't think it passes into the sphere of professional malfeasance.

There's a lot of bending of the rules in reality - at least as far as engineering goes. I know a number of companies that advertise themselves as Engineering this or that, without a single engineer on staff - and in one case, without a single employee or owner with a college degree. In the IT world, people are given various "engineering" certificates - like Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer - also without an engineering degree. My understanding is that this is not legal and that one must be a licensed engineer to use that title. But maybe the wording that goes before the "engineer" part is what lets it squeak by the state boards.

Question: Is an intern an MD?
 
Appnut

just say F--k them....and go on a WASH-IN BEAR cruise

BEARS of a feather.....cruise together..I always say

Foghorn Leghorn's advice "just keep your feathers numbered....in case you lose a few"...lol

Vern...keep in mind, their time will come,and when that happens, just tell them "I may be fat, but your ugly, and I can always lose weight....some humor to brighten your night, no offense intended....have a good night...XOXOXOXOXO
 
Most volunteer stuff around here is over run with Southern Baptists, I've tried. I also can't drive at night, limits my options.
 
Target and Wall-mart is not Bloomingdale's or Burdine&#3

I have to agree. If you don't like what is offered "for sale" you are shopping in the wrong stores.

And as I have said countless times, before one criticizes the quality and content of other meat, one should ensure their own freezer is properly well-stocked.
In English: we all have to make sure we ourselves are the kind of person we would date or we can not complain about others out there; or why we are alone.

Everyone is EXACLTY where they want to be in life (this is figurative and has nothing to do with location) or they would change it.

Frustration tends to become anger espeically in those that have evolved into a system of "learned helplessness". You can't change others, but you can learn to raise your own vibration and attract to you others of similar or higher vibration. Happiness is only a (one) thought away; change your thoughts and you change your life.

As a gay person it is difficult to not only overcome the prejudices of our religions, our families and our social insititutins but our own self-loathing. EVERY aspect of society pulls gay coules apart and fosters hetero couples.

Just as always, we have to be twice as good to get half the respect. The good part is we can do that blindfoled and with one hands tied behind our backs.

And remember Miss Toggle's words.. living well is the BEST revenge.

:-)
 
Here Too!

Even in "lovely" Springfield, MO. There are sooo may gays here with their arrogant and conceited attitudes that it's just better to stay in and do nothing.
 
It was best in my 20's & 30's to go out and have a good time. Don't worry about it. You will know Him or Her, when you meet them.... and you WILL meet them. It makes no difference if it's a bar or a charity auction. We once had a thread, where did you meet your sig. other. and it was about 1/2 & 1/2.. We were in our 30's met in a bar and now we are getting offers from AARP for car insurance, time goes really fast :-)
 
"Gawd I hope that makes it clear"

Yes, master! It makes it very clear. Thank you so much for "correcting" me. I KNEW HOW IT WAS INTENDED!
 
Delmer,

For your edification, the proper way to have begun that sentence would have been:

"My master, I have disloyal thoughts. May I tell you that you might punish me for them?"

Sheesh, no wonder the kid's not getting any...

Lighten up, would'ja? I sure as hell didn't mean it the way you took it.
 
Another perspective. Cindrella and Cider -Fella are a myth a

Oh Miss (pronounced) "myth", is this seat taken?

Here in NYC, 40% +/- of the 'mos are estimated to be HIV positive. For convenience's sake let's say 50%. It's even greater if you want "flavor".

So if I'm sitting in a -ag bar in Manhattan between two contenders and I'm the one that's (*cough*) "clean and pure" what does that statistically make the persons I'm next to? One of them is statistitcally/techinally probably a bad bet.

If I were single, there is no way I'd have any interest in marketing myself at this point. I'm embracing my newly--arrived trolldom and look forward to learning how to knit.. LOL

For your viewing pleasure.... an old man chasing and working young kitty. The words are "Come to grandpa baby". Has music, beware at work!

 
Ah, Steve

I get your point. It's true - because of the stigma and the attacks from the christianists, an enormous number of HIV+ men keep it secret or (see the horrible situation in the minority community don't even know).
There is a solution, tho': Safe sex -
Which begins with the assumption that every man you take to bed is HIV+ until:
1) He proves he isn't
2) He's given you reason to trust him.

Not that there's anything wrong with HIV- folks having sex with HIV+. Absolutely not and if anybody even tries to start a flame war over that one I'm un-velvetting the claws. Just, you have to take reasonable precautions.

And no, safe sex is not the end of the world - I have two dear friends, one positive one negative who are married and have been together for a very long time.
 
Chiming in a little late here but I met my partner of nearly 24 years in a bar. We weren't bar people but had both been dragged out that night by friends. So it CAN happen.

Vern, I didn't see anything above that indicates what sort of man you find attractive. If it's younger guys, then yes, you are absolutely in trouble and I have no advice to offer. You're approaching 30. If you're looking for men your own age or older, things are going to start improving for you.

It also depends on physical characteristics. If you're attracted to looks-obsessed in-shape gym rats, again you're asking for trouble. Regular guys who are comfortable with who they are will likely offer more relationship potential. I feel fortunate to be into the bear and daddy types. No nonsense men who aren't out to impress anyone. What you see is what you get.

I would not want to be young (under 30), single and looking in the gay men's scene today. Too many in that age bracket are preoccupied with the shallowness of perfection and vanity (making a cross with my two index fingers).

As I posted about a month or so ago, my partner and I recently went on an RSVP cruise where about 1/4 of the ship was booked by a bear group. It was the best vacation I can ever remember. So many down to earth men, so much time; it was awesome. There is more to sexual attraction than physical appearances. Clicking on an intellectual level is often a precursor to exploring the physical side of a potential relationship. Spending a week on a boat with 1,200 other men offers a lot of opportunity to at least re-assure yourself that there are good people out there in our sub culture. I recommend it for anyone who can manage.

Vern, I was a little older than you are when I found my partner. There is still time. It will happen when you least expect it. And it could even happen for you right there in Fresno. I have to disagree with Jeff about SLO. I went to school there. Those dudes are so far into the closet that you'd exhaust yourself just working at getting the barricades removed. But if you feel like buzzing over to SLO to check out the scene there, don't just check out the bar (I think there's only one). All of those super clean pick-ups you see driving around on the local streets likely offer more potential.

Ralph
 
Ralph, how long ago did you go to school in SLO? My partner and I just moved from there last year. The fact that there's no specific gay "scene" is exactly what we loved about it.. Gay people (students mainly) simply blend in with everyone else, they're not ghetto-ized as in SF, L.A. etc.

But I do agree with one thing: the area around SLO (and central CA in general) might as well be Kansas.. closet cases, phobes and fake Christians reign supreme.
 
Ralph

I'll be 31 this November, and am looking for guys my age maybe a little older, cause I know trying to find anyone younger is absolutely pointless. What scares me is, believe it or not, the last guy that pulled this crap on me is 35. Yeah scary. Plus people have always told me I seem to identify with guys older than myself anyway, and I was very mentally mature for my age when I was in my 20's. So I basically know what I would like, it's just a matter of me finding him or him finding me.
 
One third of the world is crazy....

So in laymans term thats ONE out of every THREE persons in the world is a little nuts....

So if your sitting in a bar with a guy on each side, look at them closely, they look OK, YOU'RE IT!

just a little humor to get you guys to smile!

the guy I dated before my hubby was a state trooper, super nice guy, just didn't want a relationship at that time, and was hung up on the younger crowd, six months after the breakup, he called and wanted a second chance, he was tired of the flaky, airhead, pay-my-way, spend-money-on-me-or-get-lost-attitude, he liked that I was independant, had a real job, could pay for his dinner or vice-versa, and could have intelligent conversations with, TOO LATE...I was into a great relationship, and unfortunately told him he had his chance six months ago, I showed him what I was about, he wasn't done playing yet...his loss......I never wanted someone to support me...nor did I want to support anybody, never wanted a sugar daddy, wanted someone to share my life with, unconditional love, for better or worse, sickness and health, etc....we're not married, no ring, and it doesn't matter to us...thats just material things....and were content with that...20 years is comming up this July...and I glad to "Have this dance for the rest of my life"...but thats me!

We have a neighbor 35, dating a 20yo, for 2 weeks, this kid wants a ring already, told him this kid is a gold digger, get rid of him and save your money for a relationship with someone that matters and cares for you, you'll buy the ring for the person when you're ready to, if thats what matters to you, if they demand it, pull over and kick them out, show some respect for yourself, and they should to you also! Love is not bought, the best things in life are free! Give it time, you will find the right one, when you're not looking!
 
20 year old

Martin, What is that 35 yr. old thinking? I have a guy at my Circle-K named Tyler. He's 24 and HOT!!! I'm 19 years older than him. That kinda grosses me out. I had a cigg. break with him yesterday and I told him "you know, I'm probably older than your dad, he said, you are, he's 39, but you are WAY younger looking and that's a good thing". I said, you watch Martha too, he said, who the hell dosen't, and plus, he's not into appliances so that's a BAD thing....Bill in Az.....
 
There are so many guys here who are in their late 30 and early 40's who try to go out with guys in their early 20's. How sad lol. And hey, howcome our webmaster Robert doesn't chat on here much? Is he that busy? I was looking through old chat archives and noticed he used to chat quite a bit.
 
Some things are pretty constant

1)Guys you meet in pick-up bars are there to get laid or lay you.
It's like poker - you're a winner or a loser.
Period.

The odds of finding Mr. Right in a group of guys who spend their time in a bar aren't too high to begin with. I've seen more real relationships (and, here in Europe, two marriages grow out of guys who tricked in the Sauna than real relationship from pick up bars).

2)Internet dating is fine for good sex and the occasional scary experience. It may be getting better (can't get worse) but right now, the only thing I've ever seen it really work for is the non-vanilla flavor interest groups. There it's wonderful.

3)The same rules apply to m-m relationships as to any other: If you're 50 and you're cruising for a 22 year old, you and he are going to get hurt singly or together. Get real. If you don't have anything going on upstairs, you're just his dad's older brother. If you do have something going on, he's just your brother's youngest kid fresh out of college. There's very little to bind you outside of bed and that is not enough.

Besides, who in their right minds wants to deal with the whole "finding myself" nonsense, the whole "I can still party-hardy like a sixteen year old" nonsense and, let's face it, if we wanted to raise kids, even in the 1980's ways were to have been found...

The difference between a guy in his late 20's and a 40 year old or even 50 year old is much less than between a guy who is 22 and a guy who is 27.

A real relationship is based on friendship and partnership. It's about his putting up with your red-nex relations and you not murdering his idiot friends. It's about looking for a thumper (in PANK!) cause you genuinely want him to be happy and that's what he wants, not about going to Las Vegas at the weekend when he hates smoking, drinking and thinks gambling is a sin but you can play two tables Black Jack at the same time...
It's about building a sex life with him and not with Rowan Keeting or Gareth David Lloyd (not that any of us would mind lending either or better both some comfort). It's about being there in the times when you really want to be somewhere else. It's about being there when he needs you but doesn't want you.

The wonderful times and the happiness flow as a result of his knowing and your knowing the other will be around during those times when it's not going to be about two hot orgasms in 10 minutes or the keys to a brand new restored Goat or Mopar Hemi-Hemi anything...
 
Keven, I couldn't use as wide a brush when painting labels on relationship types. I was 18 when I met my first long-term lover, and he was 31. Even today I still consider it to be the most fulfilling relationship I've ever had -- intellectually, emotionally and especially sexually. He was exactly who I'd been looking for (call it a daddy complex, or maybe older brother complex), it was the best five years of sex I've ever had. And from what he told me, he got his ultimate fantasy too (mentoring an inexperienced, nubile college kid). All I can say is, it worked out extremely well in our case. No one got hurt.

But with that said, growing up in L.A. I knew plenty of couples who did get hurt: kids breaking the hearts of their sugar daddies etc.

But it all boils down to what two people are looking for.
 
Jeff,

Jeff,
I'm not saying it can't work. I'm not talking about the guy in his mid 30's who is capable of loving someone 20 or 50, I'm talking about the guy who only wants a much younger lover. We all know these poor guys whose "man of his life du jour" is 20 years younger and we all know how, in 99.99999% of these cases it ends.

That'S not broad brushing it, that's reality.

It's not a broad brush to acknowledge the basic fact that men who are only interested in younger guys are not looking for rounded, life-long partnerships. Nothing wrong with wanting to have sex with a cute young thing. Everything wrong with expecting that he's going to want to build his life with a guy who's 20 or more years older. Sure, it happens. But when it does, it is invariably because two men have found each other who both are capable of being happy with someone regardless of their age, not because of their age.

Does that make sense?
 
I have to chime in here...The advise has been great and the reality is that it is difficult to be "out there" as you age. I hear very similar complaints and struggles from our straight friends who due to various circumstances are in their late 30's to 50's and single.

NOW - I for one have ALWAYS liked older men. At 20 I dated someone who was 40 and enjoyed it very much. Yes, I got a couple of dinners out of it that I couldn't have afforded at the time, but a great amount of time was spend watching movies at his place, going to yard sales, visiting friends, and cooking. I enjoyed our conversations and time together. The sex was good and plentiful. In the end I did get hurt as he was still connected to his ex...This wasn't a complete secret and the difference between 20 and 37 is that I had the energy/willingness to over-look/deny and continue forward. I would likely be MUCH more cautious now, but wouldn't have traded that experience for anything.

My second relationship was with a guy who was 18 years my senior. We dated for two years and would say many of the same things as I did above. The man was much more affluent as he was a doctor so I did end up having travel experiences that I could not provide myself at the time. I did not know at the time we first start dating what he did for a living. What attracted me to him was his laugh. He had a greatest booming, genuine laugh and he laughed a lot. This relationship also ended with me being hurt mostly because at the time I did not realize that someone could be an addict to something other than drugs or alcohol.

I would never trade these life experiences for anything. I was hurt both times, but these experiences helped shape the person that I am in very positive ways. OK, there are/were a few negative effects, but I have worked to minimize those.

My current partner is 8 years my senior. We are definitely well suited for each other and we both brought our fair share of grounding and stability to the relationship as well as some bagage. Though imperfect, we have built a really great life together.

I have dated others - I didn't find hubby on my third try. Some were more near my age, but I never felt a connection. So I just went with what I liked once I stopped caring that "friends" thought I had a daddy complex. Hubby is/was the youngest guy for whom I have "felt" that connection.
 

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