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just say F--k them....and go on a WASH-IN BEAR cruise

BEARS of a feather.....cruise together..I always say

Foghorn Leghorn's advice "just keep your feathers numbered....in case you lose a few"...lol

Vern...keep in mind, their time will come,and when that happens, just tell them "I may be fat, but your ugly, and I can always lose weight....some humor to brighten your night, no offense intended....have a good night...XOXOXOXOXO
 
Target and Wall-mart is not Bloomingdale's or Burdine&#3

I have to agree. If you don't like what is offered "for sale" you are shopping in the wrong stores.

And as I have said countless times, before one criticizes the quality and content of other meat, one should ensure their own freezer is properly well-stocked.
In English: we all have to make sure we ourselves are the kind of person we would date or we can not complain about others out there; or why we are alone.

Everyone is EXACLTY where they want to be in life (this is figurative and has nothing to do with location) or they would change it.

Frustration tends to become anger espeically in those that have evolved into a system of "learned helplessness". You can't change others, but you can learn to raise your own vibration and attract to you others of similar or higher vibration. Happiness is only a (one) thought away; change your thoughts and you change your life.

As a gay person it is difficult to not only overcome the prejudices of our religions, our families and our social insititutins but our own self-loathing. EVERY aspect of society pulls gay coules apart and fosters hetero couples.

Just as always, we have to be twice as good to get half the respect. The good part is we can do that blindfoled and with one hands tied behind our backs.

And remember Miss Toggle's words.. living well is the BEST revenge.

:-)
 
Here Too!

Even in "lovely" Springfield, MO. There are sooo may gays here with their arrogant and conceited attitudes that it's just better to stay in and do nothing.
 
It was best in my 20's & 30's to go out and have a good time. Don't worry about it. You will know Him or Her, when you meet them.... and you WILL meet them. It makes no difference if it's a bar or a charity auction. We once had a thread, where did you meet your sig. other. and it was about 1/2 & 1/2.. We were in our 30's met in a bar and now we are getting offers from AARP for car insurance, time goes really fast :-)
 
"Gawd I hope that makes it clear"

Yes, master! It makes it very clear. Thank you so much for "correcting" me. I KNEW HOW IT WAS INTENDED!
 
Delmer,

For your edification, the proper way to have begun that sentence would have been:

"My master, I have disloyal thoughts. May I tell you that you might punish me for them?"

Sheesh, no wonder the kid's not getting any...

Lighten up, would'ja? I sure as hell didn't mean it the way you took it.
 
Another perspective. Cindrella and Cider -Fella are a myth a

Oh Miss (pronounced) "myth", is this seat taken?

Here in NYC, 40% +/- of the 'mos are estimated to be HIV positive. For convenience's sake let's say 50%. It's even greater if you want "flavor".

So if I'm sitting in a -ag bar in Manhattan between two contenders and I'm the one that's (*cough*) "clean and pure" what does that statistically make the persons I'm next to? One of them is statistitcally/techinally probably a bad bet.

If I were single, there is no way I'd have any interest in marketing myself at this point. I'm embracing my newly--arrived trolldom and look forward to learning how to knit.. LOL

For your viewing pleasure.... an old man chasing and working young kitty. The words are "Come to grandpa baby". Has music, beware at work!

 
Ah, Steve

I get your point. It's true - because of the stigma and the attacks from the christianists, an enormous number of HIV+ men keep it secret or (see the horrible situation in the minority community don't even know).
There is a solution, tho': Safe sex -
Which begins with the assumption that every man you take to bed is HIV+ until:
1) He proves he isn't
2) He's given you reason to trust him.

Not that there's anything wrong with HIV- folks having sex with HIV+. Absolutely not and if anybody even tries to start a flame war over that one I'm un-velvetting the claws. Just, you have to take reasonable precautions.

And no, safe sex is not the end of the world - I have two dear friends, one positive one negative who are married and have been together for a very long time.
 
Chiming in a little late here but I met my partner of nearly 24 years in a bar. We weren't bar people but had both been dragged out that night by friends. So it CAN happen.

Vern, I didn't see anything above that indicates what sort of man you find attractive. If it's younger guys, then yes, you are absolutely in trouble and I have no advice to offer. You're approaching 30. If you're looking for men your own age or older, things are going to start improving for you.

It also depends on physical characteristics. If you're attracted to looks-obsessed in-shape gym rats, again you're asking for trouble. Regular guys who are comfortable with who they are will likely offer more relationship potential. I feel fortunate to be into the bear and daddy types. No nonsense men who aren't out to impress anyone. What you see is what you get.

I would not want to be young (under 30), single and looking in the gay men's scene today. Too many in that age bracket are preoccupied with the shallowness of perfection and vanity (making a cross with my two index fingers).

As I posted about a month or so ago, my partner and I recently went on an RSVP cruise where about 1/4 of the ship was booked by a bear group. It was the best vacation I can ever remember. So many down to earth men, so much time; it was awesome. There is more to sexual attraction than physical appearances. Clicking on an intellectual level is often a precursor to exploring the physical side of a potential relationship. Spending a week on a boat with 1,200 other men offers a lot of opportunity to at least re-assure yourself that there are good people out there in our sub culture. I recommend it for anyone who can manage.

Vern, I was a little older than you are when I found my partner. There is still time. It will happen when you least expect it. And it could even happen for you right there in Fresno. I have to disagree with Jeff about SLO. I went to school there. Those dudes are so far into the closet that you'd exhaust yourself just working at getting the barricades removed. But if you feel like buzzing over to SLO to check out the scene there, don't just check out the bar (I think there's only one). All of those super clean pick-ups you see driving around on the local streets likely offer more potential.

Ralph
 
Ralph, how long ago did you go to school in SLO? My partner and I just moved from there last year. The fact that there's no specific gay "scene" is exactly what we loved about it.. Gay people (students mainly) simply blend in with everyone else, they're not ghetto-ized as in SF, L.A. etc.

But I do agree with one thing: the area around SLO (and central CA in general) might as well be Kansas.. closet cases, phobes and fake Christians reign supreme.
 
Ralph

I'll be 31 this November, and am looking for guys my age maybe a little older, cause I know trying to find anyone younger is absolutely pointless. What scares me is, believe it or not, the last guy that pulled this crap on me is 35. Yeah scary. Plus people have always told me I seem to identify with guys older than myself anyway, and I was very mentally mature for my age when I was in my 20's. So I basically know what I would like, it's just a matter of me finding him or him finding me.
 
One third of the world is crazy....

So in laymans term thats ONE out of every THREE persons in the world is a little nuts....

So if your sitting in a bar with a guy on each side, look at them closely, they look OK, YOU'RE IT!

just a little humor to get you guys to smile!

the guy I dated before my hubby was a state trooper, super nice guy, just didn't want a relationship at that time, and was hung up on the younger crowd, six months after the breakup, he called and wanted a second chance, he was tired of the flaky, airhead, pay-my-way, spend-money-on-me-or-get-lost-attitude, he liked that I was independant, had a real job, could pay for his dinner or vice-versa, and could have intelligent conversations with, TOO LATE...I was into a great relationship, and unfortunately told him he had his chance six months ago, I showed him what I was about, he wasn't done playing yet...his loss......I never wanted someone to support me...nor did I want to support anybody, never wanted a sugar daddy, wanted someone to share my life with, unconditional love, for better or worse, sickness and health, etc....we're not married, no ring, and it doesn't matter to us...thats just material things....and were content with that...20 years is comming up this July...and I glad to "Have this dance for the rest of my life"...but thats me!

We have a neighbor 35, dating a 20yo, for 2 weeks, this kid wants a ring already, told him this kid is a gold digger, get rid of him and save your money for a relationship with someone that matters and cares for you, you'll buy the ring for the person when you're ready to, if thats what matters to you, if they demand it, pull over and kick them out, show some respect for yourself, and they should to you also! Love is not bought, the best things in life are free! Give it time, you will find the right one, when you're not looking!
 
20 year old

Martin, What is that 35 yr. old thinking? I have a guy at my Circle-K named Tyler. He's 24 and HOT!!! I'm 19 years older than him. That kinda grosses me out. I had a cigg. break with him yesterday and I told him "you know, I'm probably older than your dad, he said, you are, he's 39, but you are WAY younger looking and that's a good thing". I said, you watch Martha too, he said, who the hell dosen't, and plus, he's not into appliances so that's a BAD thing....Bill in Az.....
 
There are so many guys here who are in their late 30 and early 40's who try to go out with guys in their early 20's. How sad lol. And hey, howcome our webmaster Robert doesn't chat on here much? Is he that busy? I was looking through old chat archives and noticed he used to chat quite a bit.
 
Some things are pretty constant

1)Guys you meet in pick-up bars are there to get laid or lay you.
It's like poker - you're a winner or a loser.
Period.

The odds of finding Mr. Right in a group of guys who spend their time in a bar aren't too high to begin with. I've seen more real relationships (and, here in Europe, two marriages grow out of guys who tricked in the Sauna than real relationship from pick up bars).

2)Internet dating is fine for good sex and the occasional scary experience. It may be getting better (can't get worse) but right now, the only thing I've ever seen it really work for is the non-vanilla flavor interest groups. There it's wonderful.

3)The same rules apply to m-m relationships as to any other: If you're 50 and you're cruising for a 22 year old, you and he are going to get hurt singly or together. Get real. If you don't have anything going on upstairs, you're just his dad's older brother. If you do have something going on, he's just your brother's youngest kid fresh out of college. There's very little to bind you outside of bed and that is not enough.

Besides, who in their right minds wants to deal with the whole "finding myself" nonsense, the whole "I can still party-hardy like a sixteen year old" nonsense and, let's face it, if we wanted to raise kids, even in the 1980's ways were to have been found...

The difference between a guy in his late 20's and a 40 year old or even 50 year old is much less than between a guy who is 22 and a guy who is 27.

A real relationship is based on friendship and partnership. It's about his putting up with your red-nex relations and you not murdering his idiot friends. It's about looking for a thumper (in PANK!) cause you genuinely want him to be happy and that's what he wants, not about going to Las Vegas at the weekend when he hates smoking, drinking and thinks gambling is a sin but you can play two tables Black Jack at the same time...
It's about building a sex life with him and not with Rowan Keeting or Gareth David Lloyd (not that any of us would mind lending either or better both some comfort). It's about being there in the times when you really want to be somewhere else. It's about being there when he needs you but doesn't want you.

The wonderful times and the happiness flow as a result of his knowing and your knowing the other will be around during those times when it's not going to be about two hot orgasms in 10 minutes or the keys to a brand new restored Goat or Mopar Hemi-Hemi anything...
 
Keven, I couldn't use as wide a brush when painting labels on relationship types. I was 18 when I met my first long-term lover, and he was 31. Even today I still consider it to be the most fulfilling relationship I've ever had -- intellectually, emotionally and especially sexually. He was exactly who I'd been looking for (call it a daddy complex, or maybe older brother complex), it was the best five years of sex I've ever had. And from what he told me, he got his ultimate fantasy too (mentoring an inexperienced, nubile college kid). All I can say is, it worked out extremely well in our case. No one got hurt.

But with that said, growing up in L.A. I knew plenty of couples who did get hurt: kids breaking the hearts of their sugar daddies etc.

But it all boils down to what two people are looking for.
 
Jeff,

Jeff,
I'm not saying it can't work. I'm not talking about the guy in his mid 30's who is capable of loving someone 20 or 50, I'm talking about the guy who only wants a much younger lover. We all know these poor guys whose "man of his life du jour" is 20 years younger and we all know how, in 99.99999% of these cases it ends.

That'S not broad brushing it, that's reality.

It's not a broad brush to acknowledge the basic fact that men who are only interested in younger guys are not looking for rounded, life-long partnerships. Nothing wrong with wanting to have sex with a cute young thing. Everything wrong with expecting that he's going to want to build his life with a guy who's 20 or more years older. Sure, it happens. But when it does, it is invariably because two men have found each other who both are capable of being happy with someone regardless of their age, not because of their age.

Does that make sense?
 

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