"Smart car"...

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cfz2882

Well-known member
Joined
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...there was one of these little French-made cars at a local car lot last year: just wondering if I missed out by not looking at it :) These have a 3cyl,1L engine transverse at the back driving the wheels through a "semi-automatic"transaxle.Anyone here drive one of these? I like the interior design and air con is even avalible. these remind me a little of original Fiat 500.I am in a "hick" area,so could have drunkards trying to pick the car up or diesel "brodozer" drivers trying to smoke me if i was driving one of these cars :)
 
It is "cute" though :)- and turbocharged-when i first saw the engine compartment om one I thought the coolant radiator was beside the engine-turned out that was the intercooler with a fan mounted.The 450 model has a Mercedes designed engine while the 451,2008 up has 3cyl Mitsubishi as mentioned by foraloysius.
 
Smart cars in the US

My former partner smuggled, one of the original Mercedes engine, smart cars in the US when they first came out.

It ran really well got over 50 miles per gallon easily had a lot of power with a small turbo engine, it finally developed some sort of engine problem around 70 or 80,000 miles he never fixed it it’s still in the garage,

He got one of the second smart cars with the Mitsubishi engine that he still has. It only gets in the high 30s for gasoline mileage but has been pretty trouble free.

These cars made a lot of sense. They saved a lot of space and resources. We always took it when we had to go downtown because you could Parkette anywhere are you always could find a parking space .

John.
 
Smart Cars were popular in the Bay Area a while back, but now I rarely see them.  Weren't they originally planned to be marketed as "Swatch" cars?
 


Smart Cars were popular in the Bay Area a while back, but now I rarely see them.

 

That's been my same experience. Their numbers in my area were dwindling 5 years ago.

 
Louis, thanks for the interesting information.  I don't blame Swatch for bailing out of the endeavor since MB insisted on an ICE instead of a hybrid or electric, which would have been the smart thing to do.  At least MB stopped short of outfitting the Smart with a tiny BlueTEC diesel. 

 

I like the look of  your car.  With a Mitsubishi ICE, I imagine the Smart put a well deserved dent in Fiat 500 sales. 
 
Can't believe this car is 25+ years old and still being made. Unfortunately, they haven't been made available in the U.S. for the last couple of years but they are made, and in electric as an option.
 
There was a CDI model (in the 450 series), a turbodiesel that was rather popular with commuters. I believe those diesel engines were more reliable than the petrol ones.

The third generation (453) is not longer available with a petrol engine, only electric. In theory the range is 160 kilometers, but in reality much lower ofcourse. Not enough for me when I visit family or for a trip to Groningen where I used to live.

I considered trading my second generation (series 451) in for one of the last models with petrol engine. But the third generation had a Renault motor instead of a Mitsubishi. And I liked the design better of the 451 series. So if I ever need a new car, it will not be a Smart again.

The electric Smarts have become very expensive. There are cheaper options available with a longer range. Smart is definitely not an economy car anymore.

Right now the new Smart #1 is being introduced. A new model line, more like a European sized SUV. All electric.
 
You see them from time to time. They are a very EU thing.

They make a ton of sense in our huge citys. You might want a car to move shopping, or just yourself, easily.
But they were relativley cheap in basically all regards - purchase, insurance, fuel, upkeep - and incredibly agile in a city.
Our citys don't have the luck/misfortune of huge parking areas mandated for every building, so if you live central and do much of your traveling by public transport, these can be a life saver.
Have seen people just parking them 90° if cars were paralel parked along a street since these are almost cube like ish.

Worst thing I heard about them was that the transmission could be incredibly anoying. A family friend got one as a temporary loaner while their car was in service and compared it to a new driver driving manual.
Never was in one - but can imagine. Those transmissions they use in these ultra compacts are often just manuals with mechatronic shifting - so there is only so much you can do.

Unfourtunately, they really don't make these anymore.

Probably, the smallest cars on the market now are the VW up!, Renault Twingo, Toyota Aygo or Fiat 500.
Except for the Aygo these should all come fully electric if desired aswell.

Buying one of these new Smart One's just isn't justifiable in any way - you can get a Tesla Model 3 for that money and get much more car for it.
Or an VW ID3.
 
Yes, the first series was only 2,50 meter long so you could park them cross. The later series are 2,70 meter, so just a bit too long for many situations.

A lot of the European compacts are disappearing from the market. The Up! is not longer being made, Volkswagen is just selling what they still have in stock. Just like it's sibling the Smart forfour, the Renault Twingo is only available now in an electric version. Because the engine came from Renault, they could have chosen to still bring a petrol version on the market. The range of the Renault is rather limited too, so not an option for longer distances, even in the Netherlands.

The last Smart version had a DSG like transmission, which gives a smoother ride, but is also more prone to repairs. I prefer the older version because of that has the single sequential system. It's has a bit of a learning curve (never push the throttle down fully when you start) but when you can adjust to the system, it's almost just as comfortable as a regular automatic. The VW Up! has the same system just like some older Opel Corsa models.

Compact petrol cars will probably keep coming from Asian countries for a while. Peugeot and Citroen decided not to participate in a new compact so Toyota came out on their own with one, the Aygo X. I'm looking forward to the introduction of the Volkswagen ID2, Volkswagens Polo sized electric car.
 
Things may be different in other countries. Germany usually gets the most variety in cars I think. On the Dutch Volkswagen website it says that the up! is no longer manufactured. On the German website you can only configure the electric version. The Twingo is only available in electric in France as it is in the Netherlands. Perhaps they are building the petrol version of the Twingo still in small amounts for some countries.

https://www.volkswagen.nl/modellen/up?voorkeur=prive

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most of the ones i see for sale in the US look to be 451s with a few '05 and later 450s i'd prefer a 450 because it is more completely European,but the Mitsubishi engine in 451s does look like a good engine with chain drive DOHC though it does have a phaser on the exhaust cam, and those can be suspect on some engine designs...With the rear engine the exhaust system is short :) If another Smart appears close to me i will look at it.
 
Honda needs to bring back the CRX-HF in its original form. A mid 80's CRX with a carburetor gets better fuel mileage than some hybrids with the newest technology in a smaller package.
 
Back when Honda had the energy

I want my 1994 Honda Civic CX back.
It was so cute and peppy as most light cars are. Easy to clean, easy to garage, uses very little gasoline, cheap to insure, reliable, drove so smooth. Covered all the important stuff.
I think I paid upwards of $12,000 for it new and it had 5 miles on the odometer.
I certainly wouldn't pay much more than that today for a vehicle.
Got 40-46 MPG.

Now days, Honda has nothing. They are literally dying on the vine. No originality, no creativity, no cars that are electric. I'm surprised both with Honda and Toyota. I expected better. The only car that Honda makes that I'd consider is the Fit/Jazz, but apparently that isn't sold in the U.S. at the moment. Very strange.

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I remember those CRX models.  A big husky (I'm being nice with that term) guy I was acquainted with drove one of those.  It must have been comfortable even though as my dad used to say about small/sports cars, "You don't drive that car; you wear it."

 

In certain color schemes, myself and others thought the CRX resembled a tennis/running shoe.
 
"tennis/running shoe." LOL

The 1990 Ford Festiva is a better descriptor for that and equally cute.

My Aunt and Uncle around 1989, after their three kids were gone, and five years after paying off their mortgage 17 years early, saw what a scam it was to be driving their old clunkers, a 1979 Granada and 1978 Ford F-150 truck, as commuter cars.

They ditched them both and got a pair of 1989(ish) Ford Festivas, a blue and a red one. She commuted 10 miles into town for her job at the hospital and he commuted about 20 miles in the opposite direction for his job. Both having been in their jobs for at least 20 years at that point were in peak earning years so they really socked away $$$$ for retirement at that point.

Everyone always thought it was cute and their kids called the pair of cars pregnant tennis shoes.

Ford is another good example of a car maker that is now just garbage.
They recently had to be bailed out in order to stay competitive in the new electric car world. Disgrace.

In all fairness though, Ford didn't build the Festiva, nor the Fiesta before it. The Festiva was made by Kia, which is in better condition now than Ford.

bradfordwhite-2023062820223704947_1.jpg
 
Had a neighbor with a blue mid 80's Honda CRX she drove 80-ish miles round trip into SF everyday. It had 270K miles on it when she moved in early 1999. I remember after the '89 earthquake, she was complaining about the commute almost doubling until the roads and bridges were fixed. Never did ask her details of her longer route but now I'm curious, lol. I just looked her up and she's 84 years old living in a retirement community. Holy shit, time flies by!

 

 
It ain't perfect

But for a city car... Yeah, don't see the issue:

https://www.adac.de/rund-ums-fahrzeug/autokatalog/crashtest/details/474/smart-fortwo/

It's the same way a guy I went on a few dates with once (he was paramedic) swore that old Audi A6's were the safest cars cause he never pulled a dead body from one.
If you have an opinion, it's just that, an opinion.

Yeah, physics don't change. Engineering does though.
There is a very specific reason why it isn't uncommon to total newer cars even in collisions as low as 50kMh / 30MPH inner city nowadays.
The frames of modern cars are specifically designed to compress in certain areas and not others under very specific loads.
Everything about a car now is exactly calculated to spread energy dissipation throughout structures so that your body only experiences prespecified loads.

If your car is totalled, but you walk away unharmed, I think the value proposition of that is obvious.

I certainly feel perfectly safe in Polo, even on the highway.

Fuel efficiency. Yeah the Smart wasn't terribly efficient that is true.

My Polo gets something like 40MPG in daily driving.
My mum gets about the same in her Fabia - which has the newer revision of basically the same motor.

At some point, you won't get much more efficient regardless of size.
 
My wife has a Mercedes W169 A class 180.

At first I was a bit sceptical about it, but have grown to really like it. It is surprisingly spacious inside, yet very easy to park or drive around town. It is relatively light on fuel and got more than enough oomph to get going on the highways.
I have also seen the Euro NCAP crash test on them and it really did good.

We are a family of 5 and we all fit (for the time being) rather comfortably. I have driven it rather hard and it behaved with much aplomb.

Given the state of economies all over the world and the fuel prices everywhere I can't say that we will be going back to a big fuel guzzler anytime soon.
 
Alas, those pesky facts are an inconvenient thing...

"we don't hear "stories" about people dropping dead and the car being pulled from the market."

just what is your data base for that statement?

Here's the inconvenient truth:

https://www.nber.org/digest/nov11/v...by a 1,000,thousand increase in fatality risk.

Now go watch the PBS "Frontline" episode from last week all about car and semi trailer collisions.

There's a very good reason that CR recommends not driving a car with a weight under 3200 lbs.

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