Only pop corn in an Amana with the Amana cornpopper. It has metal in it to capture the power and provide heat for the corn. Most popcorn does not have enough moisture to capture the microwaves so you risk overheating the magnetron if you try to pop corn without the popper.
So, just how powerful is that Microwave??
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Tom,
I remember a service call I made with Jeff in the early 80's where a microwave was dead. Inspection upon dis-assembly showed a hole melted through the glass envelope on the magnetron. The hole was at a hot spot due to low cooling airflow being sheltered behind some support structure.
We noticed one of the old cone shaped plastic microwave popcorn poppers in the dish drainer. We asked about it and they said they had popped a couple batches then it just quit! Back then I don't think those poppers had anything to absorb energy in the base.
At least popping pre-packaged microwave popcorn is generally better for the oven since there is usually a fair amount of fat/oil in the package. The low fat products though surely don't provide an adequate load for the oven. Most ovens state minimum loading of 50ml water or the equivalent.
I remember a service call I made with Jeff in the early 80's where a microwave was dead. Inspection upon dis-assembly showed a hole melted through the glass envelope on the magnetron. The hole was at a hot spot due to low cooling airflow being sheltered behind some support structure.
We noticed one of the old cone shaped plastic microwave popcorn poppers in the dish drainer. We asked about it and they said they had popped a couple batches then it just quit! Back then I don't think those poppers had anything to absorb energy in the base.
At least popping pre-packaged microwave popcorn is generally better for the oven since there is usually a fair amount of fat/oil in the package. The low fat products though surely don't provide an adequate load for the oven. Most ovens state minimum loading of 50ml water or the equivalent.
philr
Well-known member
I did an experiment with two of my microwave ovens. I didn't calculate how powerful they were but I just wanted to see if there was a difference between both.
I heated two cups of water siultaneously in both my 1969 Amana RR-2 and my 1978 Frigidaire RCM-10 for 3 minutes. I didn't have identical plastic containers on hand so I used regular bowls which will certainly affect the result (as they did absorb quite a lot of heat from the water).
Phil, if you're able to calculate the approximate wattage from the quantities and temp rise shown, I'd like that! I'm a bit confused by your formula (I'm very poor in Maths!). Sorry I didn't think about switching the thermometer to metric values.
The pictures show the temperature readings at the beginning of the experiment and both microwave ovens set on 3 minutes and full power (not that I had much choice with the RR-2!).
The video shows the last 20 seconds of heating and the not very scientific results!
I heated two cups of water siultaneously in both my 1969 Amana RR-2 and my 1978 Frigidaire RCM-10 for 3 minutes. I didn't have identical plastic containers on hand so I used regular bowls which will certainly affect the result (as they did absorb quite a lot of heat from the water).
Phil, if you're able to calculate the approximate wattage from the quantities and temp rise shown, I'd like that! I'm a bit confused by your formula (I'm very poor in Maths!). Sorry I didn't think about switching the thermometer to metric values.
The pictures show the temperature readings at the beginning of the experiment and both microwave ovens set on 3 minutes and full power (not that I had much choice with the RR-2!).
The video shows the last 20 seconds of heating and the not very scientific results!
Phil,
I'd be glad to help with the math part.
Converting the 2 cups to metric gives us 500ml
The Temp rise is 43.7C for the RR2 and 48.6C for the RCM-10
Throwing those numbers into the formula and using 180 seconds for the run time we get (drumroll)
The Amana RR-2 is 508 watts and the Frigidaire RCM-10 is 565 watts.
Depending on the precision of the volume of water measurement, the accuracy of the infrared thermometer and thermal loss into the bowls these numbers may have a little variance. But they are surely in the ball park for what one would expect!
Thanks for playing along Phil! Next microwave experiment may involve a marshmallow, chocolate and graham crackers
I'd be glad to help with the math part.
Converting the 2 cups to metric gives us 500ml
The Temp rise is 43.7C for the RR2 and 48.6C for the RCM-10
Throwing those numbers into the formula and using 180 seconds for the run time we get (drumroll)
The Amana RR-2 is 508 watts and the Frigidaire RCM-10 is 565 watts.
Depending on the precision of the volume of water measurement, the accuracy of the infrared thermometer and thermal loss into the bowls these numbers may have a little variance. But they are surely in the ball park for what one would expect!
Thanks for playing along Phil! Next microwave experiment may involve a marshmallow, chocolate and graham crackers
We have a new leader!
Here is a ~ 10 year old Panasonic inverter microwave that I just tested. This thing is hell for strong:
929 watts measured!!
It's the first appliance to wig out my Kill-A-Watt too drawing almost 19 amps(!!) from the wall. Well more then a 120v wall outlet, even a 20 amp, should endure with any duty cycle.
Here is a ~ 10 year old Panasonic inverter microwave that I just tested. This thing is hell for strong:
929 watts measured!!
It's the first appliance to wig out my Kill-A-Watt too drawing almost 19 amps(!!) from the wall. Well more then a 120v wall outlet, even a 20 amp, should endure with any duty cycle.
philr
Well-known member
Thanks Phil for the maths! That's about what I expected. I think the Amana is rated at 675 watts and the Frigidaire at 750.
I need to do the same experiment with plastic containers like you did to see if there's any difference!
I need to do the same experiment with plastic containers like you did to see if there's any difference!
Here is the test results of the Panasonic microwave I serviced a couple years ago. This is the one at Annette's parents house that had a catastrophic inverter failure (big cloud of vaporized transistor smoke!). This oven has the old style inverter design from roughly 15 years ago.
The inverter repair thread is here:
http://www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?43694
In any case this oven tested at 740 watts, not nearly as strong as the newer model I tested up thread. That oven has the new style inverter design. I have a feeling I will need to pull it apart next weekend and measure the B+ voltage to the magnetron. The older design was 3.6Kv into the tube, I wonder if the newer oven is higher, hmmm
The inverter repair thread is here:
http://www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?43694
In any case this oven tested at 740 watts, not nearly as strong as the newer model I tested up thread. That oven has the new style inverter design. I have a feeling I will need to pull it apart next weekend and measure the B+ voltage to the magnetron. The older design was 3.6Kv into the tube, I wonder if the newer oven is higher, hmmm
I have both a Panasonic Genius Inverter microwave, circa about 2006, and an earlier, circa 1999, Kenmore Elite microwave.
First, both ovens have a magnetron. You can't have a microwave without one. The difference is in the power transformer. Older designs us a heavy magnetic power transformer that can only output one power level, and achieves lower power settings by pulsing, or turning the power on and off. The inverter power transformer can output multiple power levels without having to pulse 100% power.
The Kenmore has both a rotating turntable and a big six inch stirrer on the side of the chamber.
Each one has its own good points and lesser points.
The Panasonic, I think, is better for low power, slow heating of foods. However it would be wrong to say that it doesn't pulse. I recall reading somewhere that the inverter really only has about three power levels: 100%, 60%, and 30%. The power levels in between that are achieved by pulsing the next higher level. It's a more gentle pulsing than the regular microwave, not a full off/on cycle, but detectable in a quiet room nonetheless. The turbo defrost function is interesting. Although the control panel says it's at 30% power, it seems to me that it's a lot higher than that, because setting the control for 30% for the same amount of time results in much more gentle heating that the turbo defrost can do. I often use the turbo defrost to heat up small amounts, such as a pizza slice. It works well for that.
A drawback to the Panasonic is that it seems to heat foods from the bottom. Quite often, such as when heating a frozen pre-cooked burger patty, I find it advantageous to heat for half the time, flip the patty over, and finish the heating. Same for burritos or chimichangas.
The Kenmore, which has a magnetic transformer, really excels at microwave popcorn. The automatic setting if very good, never results in burned kernels, and pops all but a few of them. I find it's also very good for reheating beverages. The Kenmore seems to heat more evenly than the Panasonic, without causing hot spots on the bottom of foods. Still, I find myself using the Panasonic more often because it's in a more convenient location and I find the Panasonic controls to be easier to use than the Kenmore (which has a silly rotary knob to make selections and set times). The Kenmore seems to have better build quality, and I prefer the look of its magnetron cover, which is a large translucent amber plastic dish behind which one can see the rotating wave stirrer. The Panasonic has the more typical funky and harder to clean gray mica based magnetron cover.
First, both ovens have a magnetron. You can't have a microwave without one. The difference is in the power transformer. Older designs us a heavy magnetic power transformer that can only output one power level, and achieves lower power settings by pulsing, or turning the power on and off. The inverter power transformer can output multiple power levels without having to pulse 100% power.
The Kenmore has both a rotating turntable and a big six inch stirrer on the side of the chamber.
Each one has its own good points and lesser points.
The Panasonic, I think, is better for low power, slow heating of foods. However it would be wrong to say that it doesn't pulse. I recall reading somewhere that the inverter really only has about three power levels: 100%, 60%, and 30%. The power levels in between that are achieved by pulsing the next higher level. It's a more gentle pulsing than the regular microwave, not a full off/on cycle, but detectable in a quiet room nonetheless. The turbo defrost function is interesting. Although the control panel says it's at 30% power, it seems to me that it's a lot higher than that, because setting the control for 30% for the same amount of time results in much more gentle heating that the turbo defrost can do. I often use the turbo defrost to heat up small amounts, such as a pizza slice. It works well for that.
A drawback to the Panasonic is that it seems to heat foods from the bottom. Quite often, such as when heating a frozen pre-cooked burger patty, I find it advantageous to heat for half the time, flip the patty over, and finish the heating. Same for burritos or chimichangas.
The Kenmore, which has a magnetic transformer, really excels at microwave popcorn. The automatic setting if very good, never results in burned kernels, and pops all but a few of them. I find it's also very good for reheating beverages. The Kenmore seems to heat more evenly than the Panasonic, without causing hot spots on the bottom of foods. Still, I find myself using the Panasonic more often because it's in a more convenient location and I find the Panasonic controls to be easier to use than the Kenmore (which has a silly rotary knob to make selections and set times). The Kenmore seems to have better build quality, and I prefer the look of its magnetron cover, which is a large translucent amber plastic dish behind which one can see the rotating wave stirrer. The Panasonic has the more typical funky and harder to clean gray mica based magnetron cover.
Rich,
Indeed there are a lot of variables when it comes down to "cookability" of the appliance. Cooking performance goes far beyond just how the power level is adjusted, duty-cycle vs variable RF output. Cavity size and layout, stirrer or turntable (or both?) make a bigger difference in the way the oven actually performs when used to cook food.
In this testing I am only looking at ultimate RF power, not considering distribution at all. When heating liquids nearly 100% of the RF will end up absorbed into the water eventually after bouncing around a bit. Stirring the water before taking the final temperature measurement averages any hot spots that might exist in the container.
I will be curious to see if the two Panasonic microwaves I tested have the same magenetron model. If the tube is the same then it all comes down the B+ voltage that they hit the tube with.
The Panasonic inverter is a semi-continuously variable output voltage design, there are some Hams out there that are experimenting with using them to generate HV for tube radio transmitters. For grins I may have to do some measured testing to see how the power varies. If nothing else it would be interesting to see a curve of generated RF from the magnetron vs B+ voltage. I'm not sure how linear the transfer curve is. This could be calculated from the device performance curves but its fun to see if theory aligns with practice too.
Now I just wish I had a spectrum analyzer that would go to 2.5Ghz, mine stops at 1.2G
Indeed there are a lot of variables when it comes down to "cookability" of the appliance. Cooking performance goes far beyond just how the power level is adjusted, duty-cycle vs variable RF output. Cavity size and layout, stirrer or turntable (or both?) make a bigger difference in the way the oven actually performs when used to cook food.
In this testing I am only looking at ultimate RF power, not considering distribution at all. When heating liquids nearly 100% of the RF will end up absorbed into the water eventually after bouncing around a bit. Stirring the water before taking the final temperature measurement averages any hot spots that might exist in the container.
I will be curious to see if the two Panasonic microwaves I tested have the same magenetron model. If the tube is the same then it all comes down the B+ voltage that they hit the tube with.
The Panasonic inverter is a semi-continuously variable output voltage design, there are some Hams out there that are experimenting with using them to generate HV for tube radio transmitters. For grins I may have to do some measured testing to see how the power varies. If nothing else it would be interesting to see a curve of generated RF from the magnetron vs B+ voltage. I'm not sure how linear the transfer curve is. This could be calculated from the device performance curves but its fun to see if theory aligns with practice too.
Now I just wish I had a spectrum analyzer that would go to 2.5Ghz, mine stops at 1.2G
