pierreandreply4
Well-known member
my actual model is a 2004 generation 1 duet while the model link to the whirlpool ws is a 2013 model and on this idk as well must be the washer was made this way hard to say
So you think you're washing at 60 degrees?
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I could only find a preview for the testing norm - see link.
BTW: yes, as the test fabric is folded and loaded in a specific way into the washer. I've seen it myself and also got to mix the detergent that went in the wash.
http://webstore.iec.ch/preview/info_iec60456{ed5.0}en.pdf
BTW: yes, as the test fabric is folded and loaded in a specific way into the washer. I've seen it myself and also got to mix the detergent that went in the wash.
http://webstore.iec.ch/preview/info_iec60456{ed5.0}en.pdf
Thanks Logixx!
That's really interesting, and again, more and more pointing out how it's not even close to anything anyone would do in their home.
I wonder what will we find out till the end of this Book (I never thought a norm would have 137 pages
), if we ever find a complete version
Dex
That's really interesting, and again, more and more pointing out how it's not even close to anything anyone would do in their home.
I wonder what will we find out till the end of this Book (I never thought a norm would have 137 pages
), if we ever find a complete versionDex
hoover1100
Well-known member
Why cheat customers out of the wash they wish to use?
If you select a 60c cycle, you expect 60c water, no if's, no buts, same as for any other temperature.
If the manufacturer is going to offer "eco" cycles then fine, but if they only heat to say, 45c, then they should state that it is a 45c cycle so that there is no confusion!
Lets be honest though, the difference in engergy consumption between a 60c cycle in an older front loader, with short wash times and higher water levels, and a modern A++++++++++++ whatever machine on a 60c which takes 4 hours to wash with barely any water is absolute pittance so the whole idea of "eco" washing cycles is completely pointless!
Yes modern machines use less water, but energy consumption is pretty much the same, and if as in my case my water is not metered and I pay a set amount regardless of what I use, I really couldn't care less about how much (cold) water my machine uses!
But someone has to think of a way to keep people buying new machines, even if it is just confusing marketing.
Matt
If you select a 60c cycle, you expect 60c water, no if's, no buts, same as for any other temperature.
If the manufacturer is going to offer "eco" cycles then fine, but if they only heat to say, 45c, then they should state that it is a 45c cycle so that there is no confusion!
Lets be honest though, the difference in engergy consumption between a 60c cycle in an older front loader, with short wash times and higher water levels, and a modern A++++++++++++ whatever machine on a 60c which takes 4 hours to wash with barely any water is absolute pittance so the whole idea of "eco" washing cycles is completely pointless!
Yes modern machines use less water, but energy consumption is pretty much the same, and if as in my case my water is not metered and I pay a set amount regardless of what I use, I really couldn't care less about how much (cold) water my machine uses!
But someone has to think of a way to keep people buying new machines, even if it is just confusing marketing.
Matt
aldspinboy
Well-known member
So is 60 c about 140 f...or...?
Thanks.
Darren k
Thanks.
Darren k
Right.
"So german test with 8 manufacturers (Candy or Hoover must be 1 of them inthere)"
They tested a Candy EVO 1483DW-84. Looks like this one didn't have a regular Cotton cycle, but only the one for the energy label. It heated up to 54C. Among the five other washers without a regural Cotton cycle, it was only surpassed by a Miele top loaders that heated to 58C.
Alex
They tested a Candy EVO 1483DW-84. Looks like this one didn't have a regular Cotton cycle, but only the one for the energy label. It heated up to 54C. Among the five other washers without a regural Cotton cycle, it was only surpassed by a Miele top loaders that heated to 58C.
Alex
aldspinboy
Well-known member
Thanks Alexander ...Smile.
I am going to test my Bosch & Asko and see what comes out, as far as temps.
DK.
I am going to test my Bosch & Asko and see what comes out, as far as temps.
DK.
Hoover1100,
I completely agree with you, 60 should be 60. If they want to have something else, they can write like it was on older AEG's for example 40-60 MIX (a cycle that made same results as 60 on 40 deg actual washing), or something like that.
Optima,
What temperate would be if you selected Coloureds 60 E (right next to the 60 you talked about) ?
logixx,
What a coincidence, EVO 1483 DW-84 is exactly a 1400rpm Candy sister of the Hoover Which? tested. Interesting that the Haxisfan (owner of the machine) also said it was 55ish, and german test got 54, so I guess this deffinately prooves Which?'s mistake from 2 completely different sides, and now we know the exact temperature Candy is using on the Energy label cycle for sure. Thanks for the feedback
I did a Normal Cottons 60 today in my Candy (2010 model, old energy label, A+ rated) and the temperautre of the glass door at the end of the main wash (which was 15-20 minutes after heating) was 49c
Dex
I completely agree with you, 60 should be 60. If they want to have something else, they can write like it was on older AEG's for example 40-60 MIX (a cycle that made same results as 60 on 40 deg actual washing), or something like that.
Optima,
What temperate would be if you selected Coloureds 60 E (right next to the 60 you talked about) ?
logixx,
What a coincidence, EVO 1483 DW-84 is exactly a 1400rpm Candy sister of the Hoover Which? tested. Interesting that the Haxisfan (owner of the machine) also said it was 55ish, and german test got 54, so I guess this deffinately prooves Which?'s mistake from 2 completely different sides, and now we know the exact temperature Candy is using on the Energy label cycle for sure. Thanks for the feedback
I did a Normal Cottons 60 today in my Candy (2010 model, old energy label, A+ rated) and the temperautre of the glass door at the end of the main wash (which was 15-20 minutes after heating) was 49c
Dex
dj-gabriele
Well-known member
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- Messages
- 1,685
Yes modern machines use less water, but energy consumption i
Not at all!
My old Candy Alisé 16WD from 1985 uses a whopping 1,7 kWh of energy for the 110 minutes 60°C cycle, along 110 litres of water.
My modern Candy CMF125 uses 0,85 kWh and 39 litres of water for a 180 minutes wash.
Wash time is longer but energy use is much less and water is much much less without compromising rinse quality. And when energy is expensive and water is metered and expensive, trust me you'll notice the difference.
As for the norm, I'm sorry I can't post the complete text because my digital signature is watermarked on all the pages but I'll gladly show you folding instructions and some other amenities when I'll get back home from the holidays.
Not at all!
My old Candy Alisé 16WD from 1985 uses a whopping 1,7 kWh of energy for the 110 minutes 60°C cycle, along 110 litres of water.
My modern Candy CMF125 uses 0,85 kWh and 39 litres of water for a 180 minutes wash.
Wash time is longer but energy use is much less and water is much much less without compromising rinse quality. And when energy is expensive and water is metered and expensive, trust me you'll notice the difference.
As for the norm, I'm sorry I can't post the complete text because my digital signature is watermarked on all the pages but I'll gladly show you folding instructions and some other amenities when I'll get back home from the holidays.
haxisfan
Well-known member
Dex, I'm sure the 60 cycle in your Candy would be the same as what the German testers revealed. If you measured the temp of the glass, chances are that you're not going to have an accurate reading... beside, the temp would've dropped after 15 min as the machine ona standard cycle is likely to heat the wash water only once.
I too agree with almost everything which has been said here, however, as a further contribution, I'd say that I'm actually pleased that the machine gives me 50 odd degrees instead of 60 on that particular cycle, cos' at the end of the day, I see it as an addition, and should I want a real 60 degree cycle I only need to use the appropriate option. When I got the Dynamic, I despised the fact that it didn't have middling temperatures like my older washer, especially the 50 degree option. Besides... I just folded those towels I washed yesterday on that very cycle and they feel, look and smell so clean... I honestly couldn't complain
Now I'm wondering... would it be the case with all the other cycles? E.g. Cotton 40 only heats to 35 degrees and so forth? I have to test that!
I too agree with almost everything which has been said here, however, as a further contribution, I'd say that I'm actually pleased that the machine gives me 50 odd degrees instead of 60 on that particular cycle, cos' at the end of the day, I see it as an addition, and should I want a real 60 degree cycle I only need to use the appropriate option. When I got the Dynamic, I despised the fact that it didn't have middling temperatures like my older washer, especially the 50 degree option. Besides... I just folded those towels I washed yesterday on that very cycle and they feel, look and smell so clean... I honestly couldn't complain
Now I'm wondering... would it be the case with all the other cycles? E.g. Cotton 40 only heats to 35 degrees and so forth? I have to test that!
hoover1100
Well-known member
DJGabriele
Your old Candy must use a pretty high water level on the wash then! I don't know the figures for my Hoover Logic but the wash water level (i.e. the only water that's heated) is just to the rim of the drum, not much more than a modern machine really!
Yes I would be more concerned if my water was metered (and many people here do have metered water), or if I lived somewhere where water shortages and drought were a problem, but mine isn't and we have massive surplusses of water where I live, so I don't concern myself with water usage lol.
Even if the difference were considerable, I'd probably still use the old machine because I can't be doing with these 2-3 hours wash times, 60-90 mins is more than long enough in an old machine and (in my case) doesn't make a difference to energy costs.
Matt
Your old Candy must use a pretty high water level on the wash then! I don't know the figures for my Hoover Logic but the wash water level (i.e. the only water that's heated) is just to the rim of the drum, not much more than a modern machine really!
Yes I would be more concerned if my water was metered (and many people here do have metered water), or if I lived somewhere where water shortages and drought were a problem, but mine isn't and we have massive surplusses of water where I live, so I don't concern myself with water usage lol.
Even if the difference were considerable, I'd probably still use the old machine because I can't be doing with these 2-3 hours wash times, 60-90 mins is more than long enough in an old machine and (in my case) doesn't make a difference to energy costs.
Matt
pierreandreply4
Well-known member
lest water in washer or not we should not be prevented to us
i would say that even if i use on occasion warm water or hot water even do most of the time i use cold water i would say energy rating or not we should not be prevented ,the temp we need eather those temps are warm 40 degrees 60 hot or 30 cool or cold
depending on washer model when needed we should have the option to chose what tem we need its sad to see that most washer maker decided to dumb down water temp its like when they decided that all washers should be all cold rinse.
i would say that even if i use on occasion warm water or hot water even do most of the time i use cold water i would say energy rating or not we should not be prevented ,the temp we need eather those temps are warm 40 degrees 60 hot or 30 cool or cold
depending on washer model when needed we should have the option to chose what tem we need its sad to see that most washer maker decided to dumb down water temp its like when they decided that all washers should be all cold rinse.
hotpoint95622
Well-known member
My two pence worth..
I’m afraid manufactures are short changing on temperature to gain the eco ratings it’s all to easy with modern electronic control boards to program the CPU and drop the achieved temperature either by the programming its self or by the hardware by which I mean the thermistor which measures the temperature and it’s associated circuits..
This all started way back with the first all electronic machines and some like the examples that can be seen with my Hotpoint 95622, the motor control board also hosts the thermistor control circuit this in turn controls the timer hold solenoid, this machine is billed as low energy thus dropping the temperature by approximately 10c on a normal wash, selecting the super wash option brings it up to the higher temperature and all this is above board because the temperatures are not shown on the program guide on the machines consol, so what I’m trying to get at is for the most the temperatures are not stated on most modern machines…
If you look at our vintage machines like my Hotpoint 1851/03 and 18680 and Gary’s Hoover A3190 which all use mechanical timers and bi-metal thermostats is much harder to alter, only quirky differences in the stats change things a bit, some exceptions to this are timed heating used mostly for 50c programs which can differ because of factors like hard water deposits or the timer slowing with age and so on.
Unfortunately this is a debate that could go on and on and on….
Apologies if this isn’t very well compiled it’s due to toooo much of the red stuff
…
I’m afraid manufactures are short changing on temperature to gain the eco ratings it’s all to easy with modern electronic control boards to program the CPU and drop the achieved temperature either by the programming its self or by the hardware by which I mean the thermistor which measures the temperature and it’s associated circuits..
This all started way back with the first all electronic machines and some like the examples that can be seen with my Hotpoint 95622, the motor control board also hosts the thermistor control circuit this in turn controls the timer hold solenoid, this machine is billed as low energy thus dropping the temperature by approximately 10c on a normal wash, selecting the super wash option brings it up to the higher temperature and all this is above board because the temperatures are not shown on the program guide on the machines consol, so what I’m trying to get at is for the most the temperatures are not stated on most modern machines…
If you look at our vintage machines like my Hotpoint 1851/03 and 18680 and Gary’s Hoover A3190 which all use mechanical timers and bi-metal thermostats is much harder to alter, only quirky differences in the stats change things a bit, some exceptions to this are timed heating used mostly for 50c programs which can differ because of factors like hard water deposits or the timer slowing with age and so on.
Unfortunately this is a debate that could go on and on and on….
Apologies if this isn’t very well compiled it’s due to toooo much of the red stuff
…dj-gabriele
Well-known member
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- Jun 24, 2007
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- 1,685
use a pretty high water level on the wash
Not really you see the water only when it fills and starts heating, as soon as the load saturates there's no visible water, it's a two water level machine 19/14 depending if the 3/5 kg button was depressed or not. So it was really efficient for the time, I'm sure I read that a contemporary Hoover used as much as 160 litres per wash! And held 4,5 kg only instead of 5.
On standard wash it's 19 litres plus 4 rinses plus cooldown with pureg so a total of 6 water fills, since the load is not spun at the end of the wash you save those 4 litres to the nominal 110 instead of 114 (19*6) and gosh, it's so accurate I metered how much water it used
But the real consumption starts when the machine starts drying, exactly a litre every 100 seconds! For the two 80 minutes drying cycles needed for the 5 kg of laundry it takes some other 100 litres of water! :O
Not really you see the water only when it fills and starts heating, as soon as the load saturates there's no visible water, it's a two water level machine 19/14 depending if the 3/5 kg button was depressed or not. So it was really efficient for the time, I'm sure I read that a contemporary Hoover used as much as 160 litres per wash! And held 4,5 kg only instead of 5.
On standard wash it's 19 litres plus 4 rinses plus cooldown with pureg so a total of 6 water fills, since the load is not spun at the end of the wash you save those 4 litres to the nominal 110 instead of 114 (19*6) and gosh, it's so accurate I metered how much water it used
But the real consumption starts when the machine starts drying, exactly a litre every 100 seconds! For the two 80 minutes drying cycles needed for the 5 kg of laundry it takes some other 100 litres of water! :O
hoover1100
Well-known member
Hoover water consumption
It's 134litres in total, but the wash I assume is only 14 litres, as from having a look around it's 120 cold plus 14 hot as far as I'm aware this is the same for all Hoover automatics from at least the 70s to the early 90s.
It does a cooldown and 3 rinses, the wash load is rated at 5kg but like with most machines old and new it would be a struggle to cram exactly 5kg in, so 4-4.5 is probably more realistic (it will hold a summer weight double duvet with room to spare though!)
I have always been shocked by the amount of water water condensing dryers use to dry!
I was going to mention the "low energy programmes" of the mid 80s Hotpoints, ofcourse someone like us would read the manual and know to select super wash, but the average housewife would probably have never even glanced at it and was completely unaware that the wash was carried out at a lower temperature than expected.
Matt
It's 134litres in total, but the wash I assume is only 14 litres, as from having a look around it's 120 cold plus 14 hot as far as I'm aware this is the same for all Hoover automatics from at least the 70s to the early 90s.
It does a cooldown and 3 rinses, the wash load is rated at 5kg but like with most machines old and new it would be a struggle to cram exactly 5kg in, so 4-4.5 is probably more realistic (it will hold a summer weight double duvet with room to spare though!)
I have always been shocked by the amount of water water condensing dryers use to dry!
I was going to mention the "low energy programmes" of the mid 80s Hotpoints, ofcourse someone like us would read the manual and know to select super wash, but the average housewife would probably have never even glanced at it and was completely unaware that the wash was carried out at a lower temperature than expected.
Matt
dj-gabriele
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amount of water water condensing dryers use to dry!
On the Candy a total cycle would take a whopping 6,1 kWh! Just as much a current Candy uses for a 8 kg load, washed and dried... and the water my old machine used to dry now is total consumption!
Sure technology went on the good path, at least for the drying part of combination machines!
BTW, there's a little video of when I was trying the machine! As you can see there's not much water showing even in the cool down.
Oh, I do really love it, childhood memories and on top of that it DOES wash well! And stuff dried in there are so fluffy and soft!
On the Candy a total cycle would take a whopping 6,1 kWh! Just as much a current Candy uses for a 8 kg load, washed and dried... and the water my old machine used to dry now is total consumption!
Sure technology went on the good path, at least for the drying part of combination machines!
BTW, there's a little video of when I was trying the machine! As you can see there's not much water showing even in the cool down.
Oh, I do really love it, childhood memories and on top of that it DOES wash well! And stuff dried in there are so fluffy and soft!
glenfieldmathk1
Well-known member
HE7L492 - my new Hotpoint washer
I notice choosing Superwash, or Time save options it heats to 60C on prog3 (Cottons standard 60), however not pressing options it heats up less (around 50ish), even if the temp dial is on 60. adjusting the temp ie higher or lower, does give an actual temp though. Plus you've got prog 2 (whites) & 6 (Anti-allergy) which heat and hold at temp chosen - Whites for an hours, and anti-allergy for 30mins. while prog 10 (Fast wash 60) heats to selected temp and doesn't hold.
On the Hotpoint it does mention in the manuals that the temp will be less than that stated on cottons (prog 3) at 60, and cottons (Prog 4) at 40. I notice however Hoover don't specify this, or at least I haven't seen it anywhere.
I notice choosing Superwash, or Time save options it heats to 60C on prog3 (Cottons standard 60), however not pressing options it heats up less (around 50ish), even if the temp dial is on 60. adjusting the temp ie higher or lower, does give an actual temp though. Plus you've got prog 2 (whites) & 6 (Anti-allergy) which heat and hold at temp chosen - Whites for an hours, and anti-allergy for 30mins. while prog 10 (Fast wash 60) heats to selected temp and doesn't hold.
On the Hotpoint it does mention in the manuals that the temp will be less than that stated on cottons (prog 3) at 60, and cottons (Prog 4) at 40. I notice however Hoover don't specify this, or at least I haven't seen it anywhere.
capecodlaundry
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How about Manufacturers have INTEGRITY and GOVERNMENT stay o
The main point of all design SHOULD be to CLEAN the clothes not lie to consumers about temperatures, and other specifications. All of these companies should be litigated for producing defective misleading products. There is plenty of energy around we just need to use IT!
It is always very interesting how every company has sustainability or GREEN mission statements yet they produce products that fail AS SOON AS THE WARRANTY IS EXPIRED and their product ends up in the recycle. HOw about they build something to LAST, stop using cheap plastic parts, and provide replacement parts and service that is NOT more expensive than purchasing a "NEW" machine.
Refrigerators lasting barely 5 years, washers mabye 2 or 3 completely absurd!
Our grandmothers washer lasted for 10 or more years the refrigerator at least 20 years and that was with 1950's technology! TOday nothing even comes close a very sad story indeed!
Likewise the consolidation in the industry where 6 or 7 BRAND NAMES are all made by WhirlPoor or WCI does NOTHING TO PROMOTE COMPETITION and development of better long lasting products. Like the US BELL SYSTEM monopoly these should be divested and sold to completely INDEPENDENT owners free to make OUTSTANDING QUALITY PRODUCTS and SERVICE!
The main point of all design SHOULD be to CLEAN the clothes not lie to consumers about temperatures, and other specifications. All of these companies should be litigated for producing defective misleading products. There is plenty of energy around we just need to use IT!
It is always very interesting how every company has sustainability or GREEN mission statements yet they produce products that fail AS SOON AS THE WARRANTY IS EXPIRED and their product ends up in the recycle. HOw about they build something to LAST, stop using cheap plastic parts, and provide replacement parts and service that is NOT more expensive than purchasing a "NEW" machine.
Refrigerators lasting barely 5 years, washers mabye 2 or 3 completely absurd!
Our grandmothers washer lasted for 10 or more years the refrigerator at least 20 years and that was with 1950's technology! TOday nothing even comes close a very sad story indeed!
Likewise the consolidation in the industry where 6 or 7 BRAND NAMES are all made by WhirlPoor or WCI does NOTHING TO PROMOTE COMPETITION and development of better long lasting products. Like the US BELL SYSTEM monopoly these should be divested and sold to completely INDEPENDENT owners free to make OUTSTANDING QUALITY PRODUCTS and SERVICE!
pierreandreply4
Well-known member
well look at the picture in my avatar that was my grandmother inglis whirlpool dryer lsted her 40 years without a single repair she had an old inglis liberator washer the push to start kind of model with brush fliter witxh she replace in 1988 i was 14 at the time lasted her a longtime as well, credit to the original poster of the pic but i think eather the washer is a top load or front load they should put in the qualaty of there vintage counterpart while making sure they are energy star qualified.
capecodlaundry
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Humm I'd say a top load
Definitely looks like my grandmothers top load Whirlpool I think as well. Unless they had a load door in the drumn that is like those used on Raffle tickets or Bingo NIghts when they pick out the winning NUMBERS or TICKET!
Definitely looks like my grandmothers top load Whirlpool I think as well. Unless they had a load door in the drumn that is like those used on Raffle tickets or Bingo NIghts when they pick out the winning NUMBERS or TICKET!
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