Sodium Percarbonate --kosher???

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mattl

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I'm out of oxygen bleach, and I refuse to buy oxi-clean as it's mostly filler so was looking for "pure" oxygen bleach.  Since it's sodium percarbonate I thought I'd look for that.  A number of them came up saying they are Kosher.  Why?

 

Anyone have a good cheap source? I used to use Clorox oxi-magic as it was mostly s-p with some sodium carbonate added, but none of my local stores carry it.
 
For your purposes it doesn't really matter

Just find the cheapest pure sodium carbonate.

Amazon.com, The Chemistry Store, eBay and other sources online are good places to start. Shipping may be issue due to weight, but still may work out cheaper than the little boxes purchased locally at retail.

 
"Parve" "Kasrut" "Kosher"

If it is used for any canning, food prep, preserving, or in cooking, that may be why.
What makes Kosher salt parve is it is blessed by a Rabbi. Apart from animals that are not kosher for orthodox consumption like pork, if the food is blessed, it is kosher.
I learned this from being in the food industry. For Orthodox kosher cooking, dairy and meats are also not cooked in the same cookware, or even together. This is why many kosher kitchens have two refrigerators, two stoves and two ovens.
 
It takes a lot more than blessing the animal to make it proper.

There are health standards, there is the method of slaughter,animals must be segregated and cannot see or hear other animals dying so as not to terrify them, only certain parts may be used. The animal cannot be shekked on Shabbos, etc. Even after slaughter, the organs must be inspected for disease, certain large nerves must be removed, as much blood as possible must be allowed to drain away. It's more complicated that one thinks.

It is possible that the chemicals you mentioned are manufactured in a factory where other things not kosher are manufactured. Also, possibly the management cannot guarantee the factory is shut-down on Shabbos or major Holidays, overall cleanliness, etc.

As for "dual kitchens" it has become quite the jaded luxury to have both meat and dairy kitchens. However, in the old country nobody had those luxuries and everybody kept everything completely proper.
The alter kockers of the old Lower East Side Tenements had a sink with a cold water faucet if you were lucky and a two burner gas stove. A lot of things simply got sent to a local bakery to have baked, or the Shabbos Cholent kept warm on the bakery's community blech.
 
I have a basic understanding of kosher, I'm just wondering why this product would ever need to be considered kosher.  I can't fathom using it in food prep, even as a leavening agent.
 
Any product used in kosher food preparation or the cleaning of the preparation equipment needs to have the production overseen, but not liturgically blessed, by a qualified mashgiach, a rabbi with special training in kashrut. Just as with STPP, there can be kosher food grade and non-food grade categories. While I do not mind that the STPP that I use for the laundry comes from China and is therefore probably not pure, the STPP that I use as a dentifrice is food grade and is probably a product of mines here in the USA. I don't believe that my washers can get cancer, but I am not willing to trust my body to non-food grade STPP even for the two minutes two or three times a day when I brush my teeth.
 
This would be an interesting topic unto itself. I don't know much about it either other than what websites I've read from different sources and there seems to be so many variants and discussions . Anyone Jewish here care to start one,, a non-political one, just about how you go about your lives, how strict do you adhere on the Sabbath etc etc.
 
Thank you very much for your interest

Books have been written on this and present as many viewpoints as there are authors. I think there is some book called Judaism for dummies, part of the for dummies series which might be a place to start. Herman Wouk's This is my God is a small, but rich book I first read in the 1970s. Essential Judaism by George Robinsom is bigger and richer, but you can pick and choose topics that interest you. Milton Steinberg's Basic Judaism, a book about the Jewish religion--its ideals, beliefs and practices--written for both Jews and non-Jews, is another of the thinner books and decades old.  My sister and I both have copies of a book she bought titled From the ten commandments to chicken soup by Michael Shapiro so that we could look at the same text while discussing it. It has an index in front so you can look up words and terms that make up short chapters divided up into Religion, History and Civilization. These are just the books most readily visible as I look from the computer to the book shelf. There are uncountable others, but a personal account turns too easily into a life story and I am not up to that.

 

All of these titles can be found for pennies on Amazon plus $3.99 for shipping. I will be happy to answer questions as best as I can. Google can help with questions, also, but the one question I urge you not to ask is "What do Jews believe?" because Judaism is not a religion of fixed dogma and is more a religion of action than of belief.  The study of Judaism is a process of questioning instead of learning what to believe. There is the joke about where you have two Jews you will have three opinions which is really true and is compounded by the "on the one hand you have, but then on the other hand you have" discussion style. Jews are called The People of the Book and while it originally meant the Torah, it can mean much more now.  Tiny Israel has a publishing rate many times that of all of its Muslim neighbors combined and that does not even begin to factor in the publishing of Jewish communities all over the world.

 

Happy reading and researching. I am here to help if you need it.
 
I would guess that the coated version of the chemical is where the problem lies.  The word ‘coating’ covers a lot of ground, and organic sources of any type would naturally raise a lot of questions regarding kashrut.  From a quick glance at available brands, it looks like the uncoated varieties are the only ones marked kosher.

 

The two most helpful books I ever read about keeping kosher (and about Jewish life in general) were Hayim Donin’s To Be a Jew and To Pray as a Jew.  I’m not sure how helpful they would be to someone who knows literally nothing about Jewish life and religion, but with the Internet and all that, I imagine it would be easy to clarify unfamiliar terms or concepts.  For a non-Jew, parts of it are absolutely eye-opening. 

 

Most people know the simple rules like ‘no cheeseburgers’ and ‘no shrimp cocktail’, but those are so simplistic that they actually distort the real meaning of the laws.  Keeping kosher is an integral part of Jewish life and culture, not just a bunch of menu suggestions.
 
IIRC coated sodium percarbonate is a bit more shelf stable than the uncoated variety. The coating is designed to help product resist moisture I believe which is a good thing. SPC will cake, clump and form a rock hard mass if lest exposed to moisture too long. Have purchased/seen at estate sales boxes of vintage "oxygen bleach" that were SPC based that were basically bricks or packages full of lumps.
 
STPP is a common food additive. I'm not sure about sodium percarbonate, though. But who knows, the food industry adds all sorts of bizarre things to processed foods.

For laundry purposes, though, I doubt even the most devout Hassidim would care if a detergent component was Kosher or not, as long as it's not on the list of the "unclean". Am I wrong?
 
They would look for kosher certification on any processed product brought into the home because, don't forget, dish cloths and towels are washed in the washer in which the various cleaning agents have been used. Cleaners for glass, floors and walls have to have kosher certification because the cleaning cloths will go into the same washer and some of the cleaners will be used on surfaces that will come into contact with food or dishes. It is a long chain with many links, none of which are unimportant if you are that devoted to your religion.
 
Correct me if I’m wrong here.  I’m basing this on what I’ve heard and read in the past. 

 

Since laundry soap is inedible, it shouldn’t be a problem for kashrut, even if it includes treif ingredients. However, for things like tablecloths and cloth napkins and dishtowels, the residual presence of soap made with treif animals is unacceptable to many people. Kosher detergent isn’t required, but for these people, it is apparently desirable.  This may have been more of an issue a few decades ago, when soap was routinely made with animal fat.  That’s not really the case any more. 

 

The concern about animal fat in soap led me to think that the coatings on the sodium percarbonate were the problem.  Those may or may not be made with animal products, and it really doesn’t matter.  But since some people want kosher detergent, it’s easy to give them what they want with a hechsher for the pure chemical—which is obviously kosher.

 

This question is really fascinating to me, and after spending way too much time looking up answers on line, I can’t say that there was a lot of information.
 
Well, I know that devout Hindus will not wear leather shoes or garments made from cattle skin, but do Muslims, similar in their dietary restrictions to Jews, require Halal laundry detergents?

I confess to being a bit astonished at the lengths to which religious observance can go, but then in our our land, I understand that it was forbidden in the more religious communities to drag a chair across the floor on Sunday, because it would make imaginary furrows in the imaginary dirt floor, which was too similar to plowing a field which in turn would be the sin of working on a Sunday.

Some of these observances make scientific sense, of a sort, to me. For example, regarding swine as unclean and unfit for human consumption. This was probably in part due to the trichinosis they probably carried in more primitive days, which has a quite deleterious effect on human health if the meat is not cooked thoroughly (I understand modern pig farm sanitation has greatly reduced, although not eliminated, that problem).

Similarly, the near deification of cows means that the provider of milk for the family will not be slaughtered for food itself.

The rest I accept as matters of faith, and as such, cannot be proved or disproved.
 
So Tom and any others that want to chime in.. Do you not turn on anything electrical on the Sabbath incl flipping a light switch, rely on timer to do it.. in that doing so creates a spark. I see they have fridges with Sabbath mode.. if you don't have one of those do you avoid opening the fridge door because of the light turning on or it causing the compressor to start?

Somewhere in my reading up I saw something about how a wire would be strung around a neighborhood block and it had something to do with that allowing certain or all forbidden things on the Sabbath to be done?
 
The delineation of a neighborhood with a "string" or "wire" is called an Eruv, and within the area the strictures are relaxed somewhat on the Sabbath. The main difference I'm aware of (I lived within an eruv when I lived in Dunwoody, Georgia) was that the Jewish families could use baby strollers on Saturday. Don't have much more first-hand knowledge than that (am sure there are some similar established here in Oak Park/Southfield/West Bloomfield)...heaven knows they shifted the route of I-696 to accommodated an Orthodox neighborhood in Oak Park.
 

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