Hey everybody, this is hopeless. I will be ignoring this thread now, with hopes that it will crash to the bottom of the list and go away. Please join me. It isn't worth anyone's keystrokes.
Something I discovered on Obama
- Thread starter lightedcontrols
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~sudsshane
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well..
"That one uses this website to sell a rare, highly coveted washing machine - you know, make a buck off of the members...or upwards of $3251.00 - the last price we were made aware of".
and what is wrong with this? As everyone knows, Mark's collection is beyond amazing. If somebody wants to pay $5000.00 for a machine, it is their business. He could have easily sold that machine on Craigslist or eBay instead of offering it here to other club members. I think it was very generous of him to do so.
"That one uses this website to sell a rare, highly coveted washing machine - you know, make a buck off of the members...or upwards of $3251.00 - the last price we were made aware of".
and what is wrong with this? As everyone knows, Mark's collection is beyond amazing. If somebody wants to pay $5000.00 for a machine, it is their business. He could have easily sold that machine on Craigslist or eBay instead of offering it here to other club members. I think it was very generous of him to do so.
lightedcontrols
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Hooverwheelaway
The machine (actually there were two) was someone elses that needed to sell it because had bills to pay, and trusted me enough to take care of it for him. Once again, you speak BEFORE you know all the facts. I listed it here so the general public would NOT be able to bid on it, and so that a member would get it and restore and love it. To be quite honest though, I'm NOT surprised you made the comment. But here adain, you DIDN't know any of the facts. All you had to do was ask. Mark
The machine (actually there were two) was someone elses that needed to sell it because had bills to pay, and trusted me enough to take care of it for him. Once again, you speak BEFORE you know all the facts. I listed it here so the general public would NOT be able to bid on it, and so that a member would get it and restore and love it. To be quite honest though, I'm NOT surprised you made the comment. But here adain, you DIDN't know any of the facts. All you had to do was ask. Mark
~sudsshane
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Well, Robert~
I know many many Hillary voters who will not vote Obama. myself included.
I am an American First, a Democrat second.
I know many many Hillary voters who will not vote Obama. myself included.
I am an American First, a Democrat second.
lightedcontrols
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Just read something interesting...
I'm sure you'll see it too sooner or later... Seems Ms Clinton may have had a change of heart! And Robert if you were in a MUSLIM country, you would be PUT TO DEATH. I'm going with the Republican woman.
I'm sure you'll see it too sooner or later... Seems Ms Clinton may have had a change of heart! And Robert if you were in a MUSLIM country, you would be PUT TO DEATH. I'm going with the Republican woman.
I am an American First, a Democrat second.
Well Shane I'm a gay American first, democrat is totally 2nd in my book as well.
And Robert if you were in a MUSLIM country, you would be PUT TO DEATH.
And if many of the hardcore Christians had their way I would at minimum be in jail, if not put to death.
To each his own, no one is going to change anyone's minds here, nor should we even try.
Well Shane I'm a gay American first, democrat is totally 2nd in my book as well.
And Robert if you were in a MUSLIM country, you would be PUT TO DEATH.
And if many of the hardcore Christians had their way I would at minimum be in jail, if not put to death.
To each his own, no one is going to change anyone's minds here, nor should we even try.
nmaineman36
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Wow this thread is a hornets nest thats for sure! Robert dahlink....just the 72 virgin boys?...Now you know there has to be at least one or two lying thru their teeth saying they are are a virgin. And besides they are so rare that breaking every one of them in would be a pain *ahem* in the ass so to speak. Now if they are loose as in like"chucking a hotdog down a hallway "loose then I might think twice.
Now I have said my piece and I am going to sashay on outta here for now....
Now I have said my piece and I am going to sashay on outta here for now....
~sudsshane
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To each his own, no one is going to change anyone's mind
Very True Robert..
Regardless of the outcome of this very polarizing election, many people here who have vehemently disagreed are friends.
I truly hope they can move beyond that. My hope is that we all will not lose sight of what is really important.
I have friends that support McCain, and friends that support Obama. The most important thing we can do is exercise our constitutional right to vote and let the chips fall where they may.
At the end of the day,after all votes are counted, we will all be here because of our love of appliances and vintage collectibles.
Now, on a VERY serious note... Robert, my dear. I just know you could never vote for someone who supports banning phosphates! Obama wants to ban phosphates! LOL! =)~
Very True Robert..
Regardless of the outcome of this very polarizing election, many people here who have vehemently disagreed are friends.
I truly hope they can move beyond that. My hope is that we all will not lose sight of what is really important.
I have friends that support McCain, and friends that support Obama. The most important thing we can do is exercise our constitutional right to vote and let the chips fall where they may.
At the end of the day,after all votes are counted, we will all be here because of our love of appliances and vintage collectibles.
Now, on a VERY serious note... Robert, my dear. I just know you could never vote for someone who supports banning phosphates! Obama wants to ban phosphates! LOL! =)~
If there ever was anything on this planet that really deserved to be labelled "Only in America" it's this tired old bullshit again. It's sickening
andrewinorlando
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Looks like the video was cut and paste together....would be iterested to hear what was cut out....
>I most certainly am going to base my vote on gay issues. My biggest concern is to protect my FAMILY and FRIENDS FIRST. While I do not believe that the democrats are going to do much better at protecting us than the republicans, I do believe we stand a slightly better chance under the democrats, ***click*** done.<
Robert, I've reached the same conclusion. Just a few months ago McCain had himself surgically attached to Joe Lieberman (pandering to America's major media and AIPAC). But now he needs to pander to the far right, so he picks a running mate he barely even knows and who wants abortion criminalized even in cases of rape and incest. Yikes.
en.wikipedia.org
Robert, I've reached the same conclusion. Just a few months ago McCain had himself surgically attached to Joe Lieberman (pandering to America's major media and AIPAC). But now he needs to pander to the far right, so he picks a running mate he barely even knows and who wants abortion criminalized even in cases of rape and incest. Yikes.
Sarah Palin - Wikipedia
I am very sad
Barack Obama is a member of record of the United Church of Christ.
As am I.
Race is one of the "elephant in the living room" topics that are generally not discussed in the United States, and it is about freaking time.
Religion is a topic that in my opinion is generally overdiscussed in the United States.
I am a gay man. I am a Christian (or try to be).
I am a Christian (or try to be). I am a gay man.
I wish I could say that I have not thought about leaving this place in the last few weeks, but that would be an enormous lie.
However, there are too many people here whom I love, and maybe some love me in return.
I try to always remember that this website is the moral equivalent of Robert's home, and I try to conduct myself accordingly.
I think I have no more to say on this particular topic here, but the email address in my profile is active, and I check it at least daily.
Lawrence/Maytagbear
Barack Obama is a member of record of the United Church of Christ.
As am I.
Race is one of the "elephant in the living room" topics that are generally not discussed in the United States, and it is about freaking time.
Religion is a topic that in my opinion is generally overdiscussed in the United States.
I am a gay man. I am a Christian (or try to be).
I am a Christian (or try to be). I am a gay man.
I wish I could say that I have not thought about leaving this place in the last few weeks, but that would be an enormous lie.
However, there are too many people here whom I love, and maybe some love me in return.
I try to always remember that this website is the moral equivalent of Robert's home, and I try to conduct myself accordingly.
I think I have no more to say on this particular topic here, but the email address in my profile is active, and I check it at least daily.
Lawrence/Maytagbear
~sudsshane
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- Joined
- Jan 14, 2007
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- 1,250
Hi Lawrence~
Your post has alot of truth to it. I, for one, am glad you are here. While your opinions may differ from others, you are never quick to attack or talk down to others. You are always pleasant and helpful.
We have a few members here who have a superiority complex.
Thankfully, I am not alone in my opinion.
Your post has alot of truth to it. I, for one, am glad you are here. While your opinions may differ from others, you are never quick to attack or talk down to others. You are always pleasant and helpful.
We have a few members here who have a superiority complex.
Thankfully, I am not alone in my opinion.
~sudsshane
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2007
- Messages
- 1,250
and again~
you have proved my point Rick! tyvm
you have proved my point Rick! tyvm
Well, I'll second that!
Lawrence, while I don't know you personally, you summed up my thoughts. We are quick to place our personal wants and desires over exercising the ability to speak to others kindly even if we disagree. It's pretty easy to display kindness when you are in agreement...
I think what was intended as a lighthearted piece of information was interpreted as an attack, some decided to take it as a personal attack.
Those of you here who know Mark will also know that he is a kind, generous, and caring individual who has helped many people in this club.
I have voted for people in either party during the past, but consider my political preferences a private matter.
We really should be friends here. This website is a beautiful place. It has made many of us happy, and has built positive relationships. I think that's worth more at the end of the day than political views or turning a small web clip into a point of contention.
For those of you who commented without anger or disdain, you are to be applauded.
Joe
Lawrence, while I don't know you personally, you summed up my thoughts. We are quick to place our personal wants and desires over exercising the ability to speak to others kindly even if we disagree. It's pretty easy to display kindness when you are in agreement...
I think what was intended as a lighthearted piece of information was interpreted as an attack, some decided to take it as a personal attack.
Those of you here who know Mark will also know that he is a kind, generous, and caring individual who has helped many people in this club.
I have voted for people in either party during the past, but consider my political preferences a private matter.
We really should be friends here. This website is a beautiful place. It has made many of us happy, and has built positive relationships. I think that's worth more at the end of the day than political views or turning a small web clip into a point of contention.
For those of you who commented without anger or disdain, you are to be applauded.
Joe
danemodsandy
Well-known member
I'd Like to Offer a Thought:
You know, this is supposed to be the election that is about "change". Whatever party you belong to, you are expecting - or at least hoping - for something different than we've gotten the last eight years. Well, something has become very clear to me this last week: We're not going to get it. Doesn't matter if we end up with President Obama or President McCain, we're not going to get change.
Why? Because of highly polarized, partisan politics. No matter what Obama does, the Republicans will scream their heads off, point fingers, try to marshal detrimental facts and dig up dirt. And no matter what McCain does, the Democrats will scream their heads off, point fingers, try to marshal detrimental facts and dig up dirt. And that leaves even the best President basically powerless, because genuine change at the Federal level takes a Congress united behind him. Or her.
And why will that be? Well, it's always hard to answer that old question about "Which came first, the chicken or the egg?" but my opinion is that this country is locked into its present downward spiral because partisan, polarized politics are just the way it is nowadays. These politics have Washington tied in knots; very little that benefits We the People is getting done. It's not easy to figure out if politicians behave this way because We the People demand it (or tolerate it), or if We the People have been trained by politicians to accept this new, lower standard of behavior from public officials. What is for certain is that politicians are doing it because it's somehow acceptable nowadays. That wasn't the case in days gone by; politics has always been a dirty game, but today's naked, raw polarization and partisanship are different from yesterday's mud-slinging.
Now, what does this have to do with my opinion that we're not going to get change? Well, we already know that politicians don't change unless there is a clear mandate from voters, and not always then. And this time, in spite of all the lapel buttons, the banners, the Websites and the blogging, there is not a mandate for change. When politicians running in this election put their fingers to the wind, to see which way it's blowing, it's easy to see that their partisanship and polarization are still highly acceptable to voters, because every blog, every Comments section for political news articles - every public forum of every kind - is filled with comments that denounce the other party in terms that would not have been acceptable in any print medium when I was growing up.
Even when profanity is eschewed, the attacks on The Other Guy are always couched in the most personal and vicious terms possible. Almost never does one read a comment from a Dem saying "McCain has a point," and almost never does one read words from a Repub saying, "Well, if Obama gets elected, it isn't the end of the world."
What this tells politicians is that it's okay for them to rip each other to shreds, make the most vicious accusations, dig up all the dirt they possibly can on each other - and do absolutely nothing that benefits you and me. I think it's obvious to everyone here that enormous misdeeds have been committed behind this smokescreen of mud-slinging, and that this country is in serious trouble because voters have bought into the partisan lies of people who wanted to rule this country, not govern it.
Which, if I'm not mistaken, means that we - you, me, all of us - are responsible for the mess this country is in. We have listened to stories of teen pregnancy instead of demanding a commitment on healthcare. We have listened to Limbaugh and Boortz and Hannity and Colmes and Al Franken instead of demanding that Congress clean up both its act and that of the White House. And we've done all that blogging, all that commenting, all that posting.
The problem, as I see it, is We the People. We have all the tools available to demand - and get - real, effective change, and we're squandering them right and left on venom and regurgitations of the latest sensational news stories and punditry we've heard. I myself have done it, most of us have done it. We're sick and tired of what we've been put through since the dawning of the new millennium, and we're hurting so bad we've forgotten both our good manners and our problem-solving skills.
The worst of all this is that even if Obama, the supposed agent of change, gets elected by a landslide, partisanship and polarization will continue, because those things are still okay, no matter who's in the White House. Even with the last eight years as the clearest possible example of how much those things get in the way of doing the people's business, a lot of us are so used to slinging mud we can't remember what it feels like after a bath any more.
It's very convenient - and to a large extent legitimate - to blame the present administration for many of the things that are going on in this country. But this country is us. It's you. It's me. It's three hundred million freaking people. If those three hundred million came to a consensus that honest and competent governance is what we should have, then honest and competent governance is what we would have. But since no one can agree on anything any more, those who would pillage this nation for their own ends are free to do as they please.
As I've said, I've been guilty of some of this too, so when I propose my solution, I'm examining my own part in this, and hopefully not just telling others what I think they should do. What we seem to need in this country is a laying-down of arms and a restoration of civility. Only when our discussions involve our ears and minds and hearts, instead of just our mouths and our typing fingers, will we be able to reach the consensus we need - one so powerful, so incapable of being ignored, that no politician would dare fail to heed it.
We the People need the People's business done. Anything we allow to get between us and an unmistakable call for politicians to stop their polarizing and partisan tactics will not only keep our business from being done, it will fuel their efforts to take America away from us. Every time we stoop to their level, we're telling them that pillaging this nation is okay.
Ben Franklin said it first, and said it best: "We had better hang together, or we will all hang separately."
I'm off my soapbox now.
You know, this is supposed to be the election that is about "change". Whatever party you belong to, you are expecting - or at least hoping - for something different than we've gotten the last eight years. Well, something has become very clear to me this last week: We're not going to get it. Doesn't matter if we end up with President Obama or President McCain, we're not going to get change.
Why? Because of highly polarized, partisan politics. No matter what Obama does, the Republicans will scream their heads off, point fingers, try to marshal detrimental facts and dig up dirt. And no matter what McCain does, the Democrats will scream their heads off, point fingers, try to marshal detrimental facts and dig up dirt. And that leaves even the best President basically powerless, because genuine change at the Federal level takes a Congress united behind him. Or her.
And why will that be? Well, it's always hard to answer that old question about "Which came first, the chicken or the egg?" but my opinion is that this country is locked into its present downward spiral because partisan, polarized politics are just the way it is nowadays. These politics have Washington tied in knots; very little that benefits We the People is getting done. It's not easy to figure out if politicians behave this way because We the People demand it (or tolerate it), or if We the People have been trained by politicians to accept this new, lower standard of behavior from public officials. What is for certain is that politicians are doing it because it's somehow acceptable nowadays. That wasn't the case in days gone by; politics has always been a dirty game, but today's naked, raw polarization and partisanship are different from yesterday's mud-slinging.
Now, what does this have to do with my opinion that we're not going to get change? Well, we already know that politicians don't change unless there is a clear mandate from voters, and not always then. And this time, in spite of all the lapel buttons, the banners, the Websites and the blogging, there is not a mandate for change. When politicians running in this election put their fingers to the wind, to see which way it's blowing, it's easy to see that their partisanship and polarization are still highly acceptable to voters, because every blog, every Comments section for political news articles - every public forum of every kind - is filled with comments that denounce the other party in terms that would not have been acceptable in any print medium when I was growing up.
Even when profanity is eschewed, the attacks on The Other Guy are always couched in the most personal and vicious terms possible. Almost never does one read a comment from a Dem saying "McCain has a point," and almost never does one read words from a Repub saying, "Well, if Obama gets elected, it isn't the end of the world."
What this tells politicians is that it's okay for them to rip each other to shreds, make the most vicious accusations, dig up all the dirt they possibly can on each other - and do absolutely nothing that benefits you and me. I think it's obvious to everyone here that enormous misdeeds have been committed behind this smokescreen of mud-slinging, and that this country is in serious trouble because voters have bought into the partisan lies of people who wanted to rule this country, not govern it.
Which, if I'm not mistaken, means that we - you, me, all of us - are responsible for the mess this country is in. We have listened to stories of teen pregnancy instead of demanding a commitment on healthcare. We have listened to Limbaugh and Boortz and Hannity and Colmes and Al Franken instead of demanding that Congress clean up both its act and that of the White House. And we've done all that blogging, all that commenting, all that posting.
The problem, as I see it, is We the People. We have all the tools available to demand - and get - real, effective change, and we're squandering them right and left on venom and regurgitations of the latest sensational news stories and punditry we've heard. I myself have done it, most of us have done it. We're sick and tired of what we've been put through since the dawning of the new millennium, and we're hurting so bad we've forgotten both our good manners and our problem-solving skills.
The worst of all this is that even if Obama, the supposed agent of change, gets elected by a landslide, partisanship and polarization will continue, because those things are still okay, no matter who's in the White House. Even with the last eight years as the clearest possible example of how much those things get in the way of doing the people's business, a lot of us are so used to slinging mud we can't remember what it feels like after a bath any more.
It's very convenient - and to a large extent legitimate - to blame the present administration for many of the things that are going on in this country. But this country is us. It's you. It's me. It's three hundred million freaking people. If those three hundred million came to a consensus that honest and competent governance is what we should have, then honest and competent governance is what we would have. But since no one can agree on anything any more, those who would pillage this nation for their own ends are free to do as they please.
As I've said, I've been guilty of some of this too, so when I propose my solution, I'm examining my own part in this, and hopefully not just telling others what I think they should do. What we seem to need in this country is a laying-down of arms and a restoration of civility. Only when our discussions involve our ears and minds and hearts, instead of just our mouths and our typing fingers, will we be able to reach the consensus we need - one so powerful, so incapable of being ignored, that no politician would dare fail to heed it.
We the People need the People's business done. Anything we allow to get between us and an unmistakable call for politicians to stop their polarizing and partisan tactics will not only keep our business from being done, it will fuel their efforts to take America away from us. Every time we stoop to their level, we're telling them that pillaging this nation is okay.
Ben Franklin said it first, and said it best: "We had better hang together, or we will all hang separately."
I'm off my soapbox now.
Five words:
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE
Lawrence, Sandy
Your thoughts and ideas are one of the best things about this site.
I value your opinions and pray your continued patience with my perspectives.
There is a parable about the sheep and the wolves. Seems the sheep woke up one morning and decided that wolves were to become vegetarians. The suggestion passed unanimously.
I have no idea what the wolves thought of it, every messenger sent to inform them of their change of diet has, 'till now, failed to return.
And that is the problem with the christianists. They deny our humanity. They would gladly torture and kill us just to satisfy their sick, twisted concept of religion. As long as they were but a minority, we could put up with them.
Unfortunately, they have completely taken over the republican party. A vote for the republicans today is the same as a vote for the Nazis in the early 1930s. The only difference is the very, very slim protection of the US Constitution. And that is being torn to pieces by the republicans.
What to do? Good question. As long as my political opponents deny my human and civil rights, it is going to be hard to find common ground. Personally, when I see how people are attacked on this site by the, a-hem, let us say 'right wing', then I feel no desire to let down my guard.
Ultimately, of course, things will have to change. Enough Eisenhower republicans (the last honorable, competent republican president) have lost their voice in their party.
It may be enough for the intelligent independents, the leftists, the democrats and those republicans like Susan Eisnehower to band together in the common cause of forcing the christianists back into their holes.
America has been split between puritanical and liberal visions since the sixteen century. It is time for the christianists to lay down their arms and accept that even if they torture and kill all of us, they will never stop people from possessing free-will.
Gosh, now that's a truly biblical concept. Doesn't stand a chance.
Your thoughts and ideas are one of the best things about this site.
I value your opinions and pray your continued patience with my perspectives.
There is a parable about the sheep and the wolves. Seems the sheep woke up one morning and decided that wolves were to become vegetarians. The suggestion passed unanimously.
I have no idea what the wolves thought of it, every messenger sent to inform them of their change of diet has, 'till now, failed to return.
And that is the problem with the christianists. They deny our humanity. They would gladly torture and kill us just to satisfy their sick, twisted concept of religion. As long as they were but a minority, we could put up with them.
Unfortunately, they have completely taken over the republican party. A vote for the republicans today is the same as a vote for the Nazis in the early 1930s. The only difference is the very, very slim protection of the US Constitution. And that is being torn to pieces by the republicans.
What to do? Good question. As long as my political opponents deny my human and civil rights, it is going to be hard to find common ground. Personally, when I see how people are attacked on this site by the, a-hem, let us say 'right wing', then I feel no desire to let down my guard.
Ultimately, of course, things will have to change. Enough Eisenhower republicans (the last honorable, competent republican president) have lost their voice in their party.
It may be enough for the intelligent independents, the leftists, the democrats and those republicans like Susan Eisnehower to band together in the common cause of forcing the christianists back into their holes.
America has been split between puritanical and liberal visions since the sixteen century. It is time for the christianists to lay down their arms and accept that even if they torture and kill all of us, they will never stop people from possessing free-will.
Gosh, now that's a truly biblical concept. Doesn't stand a chance.
Unfortunately, Danemodsandy has a very good point!
I think there's a lot of truth to his last post. From the rumors now going around, John McCain's choice of Sarah Palin as his running mate came only after some members of the Republican Party refused to accept his first choice, Sen. Lieberman, because Lieberman wasn't Republican enough. This is exactly the sort of "us vs. them" thinking in high places that has prevented this nation from addressing its' problems in a thoughtful, cohesive, and productive manner. The ulitmate irony is that a McCain-Lieberman ticket would likely have a much great chance of winning throughout the nation than McCain and Palin, but a small sector of the Republican party would rather gamble on losing the election than accept any compromise in their party's view. The Democrats aren't much better, although their platform is personally more palatable to me due to their inclusion of gay rights.
Maybe the best way to prepare for this election is to re-read both "Alice In Wonderland" and "1984", because things aren't what them seem to be (a real choice), and not much change will happen (although we'll be told incessantly that yes, govenment will change and actually make a positive difference).
I think there's a lot of truth to his last post. From the rumors now going around, John McCain's choice of Sarah Palin as his running mate came only after some members of the Republican Party refused to accept his first choice, Sen. Lieberman, because Lieberman wasn't Republican enough. This is exactly the sort of "us vs. them" thinking in high places that has prevented this nation from addressing its' problems in a thoughtful, cohesive, and productive manner. The ulitmate irony is that a McCain-Lieberman ticket would likely have a much great chance of winning throughout the nation than McCain and Palin, but a small sector of the Republican party would rather gamble on losing the election than accept any compromise in their party's view. The Democrats aren't much better, although their platform is personally more palatable to me due to their inclusion of gay rights.
Maybe the best way to prepare for this election is to re-read both "Alice In Wonderland" and "1984", because things aren't what them seem to be (a real choice), and not much change will happen (although we'll be told incessantly that yes, govenment will change and actually make a positive difference).
