toploader55
Well-known member
Kenwhirl is hiding something...
Something is going on ...
- Thread starter toploader55
- Start date
toploader55
Well-known member
He's a little out of control
Kenwirl, What are you so upset about ?????
Kenwirl, What are you so upset about ?????
toploader55
Well-known member
OMG it's the KDS18
That Coldspot gave to me.
That Coldspot gave to me.
toploader55
Well-known member
This is...
One of my "Dream Machines".
One of my "Dream Machines".
toploader55
Well-known member
Even the Neighbors heard about it
The Deers, aren't they sweet to visit ?
The Deers, aren't they sweet to visit ?
hoover1060
Well-known member
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2005
- Messages
- 3,309
beautiful machine!
Always nice to hear of dreams coming true too!
Always nice to hear of dreams coming true too!
toploader55
Well-known member
This Machine ...
Runs like it has back in 1986. The sound of alot of water splashing,timer advancing,solenoid clicking, it's a dream come true. Did my sort of semi Bob Loa tonight, and she went though Normal Wah like a dream.
Runs like it has back in 1986. The sound of alot of water splashing,timer advancing,solenoid clicking, it's a dream come true. Did my sort of semi Bob Loa tonight, and she went though Normal Wah like a dream.
toploader55
Well-known member
Loading
Top Rack, Bottom Rack, doesn't matter
Top Rack, Bottom Rack, doesn't matter
toploader55
Well-known member
I just love this machine.
The power and fantastic designs of the 80's
The power and fantastic designs of the 80's
toploader55
Well-known member
Just love this machine.
Can't beat these Old Gems...Superba.The only name for the Machine.
Can't beat these Old Gems...Superba.The only name for the Machine.
Beautiful! No wonder the KenWhirl is jealous, LOL.
Your machine heats the water before the wash cycle begins, right? I always liked that about pre-Whirlpool KitchenAids. A nice steam bath to soften those crusty pots/pans.
Your machine heats the water before the wash cycle begins, right? I always liked that about pre-Whirlpool KitchenAids. A nice steam bath to soften those crusty pots/pans.
Eugene, no the 18 series dind't do any water heating unless the Sani cycle was used, then the final rinse was heated to 180 degrees. The 19 series was the first KA that paused and heated water--the pre-wash and final rinse, I do believe.
toploader55
Well-known member
I had a ...
Energy Saver IV...Way sort of different animal. But this one is similar.This one makes more sense. Yes Soak and Scrub is the "Steam Bath"
Energy Saver IV...Way sort of different animal. But this one is similar.This one makes more sense. Yes Soak and Scrub is the "Steam Bath"
And Eddie, congratulations. I loveed the picture of the exicted neighbors and the deer coming to visit too!!
toploader55
Well-known member
Thanks appnut.
This machine stops at the final rinse on the Normal Wash and heats water till 150. Sani heats to 180. As far as I could tell listening to it go through the cycles.
This machine stops at the final rinse on the Normal Wash and heats water till 150. Sani heats to 180. As far as I could tell listening to it go through the cycles.
Brent-Aucoin
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2004
- Messages
- 887
Exciting!
Great for you!
You will love this dishwasher! In the normal wash, you will always be shocked at how fast it is, including drying.
The Pot's and Pans cycle is super! Best I have ever used on any dishwasher!
I have one built in that I love, and I have several 18's as back ups since parts are getting so hard to find, and costly!
Eugene, the KDS-18 Heating Element runs at half wattage through the entire cycle, unless you pick "short wash" or push in the "Energy Saver" "Heat Off" button.
Glad you are having so much fun with your new toy. Now you have THREE DISHWASHERS IN YOUR KITCHEN, LIKE SOMEONE ELSE I KNOW HERE IN THE CLUB!!!
Brent
Great for you!
You will love this dishwasher! In the normal wash, you will always be shocked at how fast it is, including drying.
The Pot's and Pans cycle is super! Best I have ever used on any dishwasher!
I have one built in that I love, and I have several 18's as back ups since parts are getting so hard to find, and costly!
Eugene, the KDS-18 Heating Element runs at half wattage through the entire cycle, unless you pick "short wash" or push in the "Energy Saver" "Heat Off" button.
Glad you are having so much fun with your new toy. Now you have THREE DISHWASHERS IN YOUR KITCHEN, LIKE SOMEONE ELSE I KNOW HERE IN THE CLUB!!!
Brent
70series
Well-known member
My grandmother had that Kitchenaid, and my mother had almost exactly that Kenmore model, but had to leave it behind when the house was sold.
Have a good one,
James
Have a good one,
James
toploader55
Well-known member
You know...
With the upper rack being able to tilt, and move up and down, who needs a tall tub ? Last nights load came out absolutely flawless. Sparkling clean and very dry. With that Flow thru drying heater and fan even the plastics were 99% dry. What a thrill to see some of the light weight plastics flipped over from so much water pressure.
Today I start tearing down the KD2-P. The drain valve should be here on Monday.
With the upper rack being able to tilt, and move up and down, who needs a tall tub ? Last nights load came out absolutely flawless. Sparkling clean and very dry. With that Flow thru drying heater and fan even the plastics were 99% dry. What a thrill to see some of the light weight plastics flipped over from so much water pressure.
Today I start tearing down the KD2-P. The drain valve should be here on Monday.
stevet
Well-known member
What Dreams are made of for sure!
Nice to see the pictures of the machine we spoke so much about, Ed. Looks like it was always a part of your kitchen!
I think you could have fit a few more things in the machine, though especially if you flipped the flex-o-dividers down in the top rack! It would be cool to see if your Kenwhirl would have held as much or if it had some extra room left over with the same load.
Sometimes my WP DU950 takes all the 18 has in it with some room to spare. But it does take nearly 2x as long to wash the dishes and doesn't dry them anywhere near as well as my 18 or any other KA I happen to be using!
BTW, that model does not have a target temp for the final rinse EXCEPT for the final rinse in SANI Cycle so it may not always hit 150 when it runs any other cycle. It would be more a result in your incoming hot water temperature and has nothing to do with the machine at all. But 150 isn't so bad.
As you and I discussed before, I use the Sani Cycle on mine because my water cools down so much as it runs thru the slab of my house especially at during the cooler months!
I know you will enjoy the 18 as much as any of us do and use it in good health!
Nice to see the pictures of the machine we spoke so much about, Ed. Looks like it was always a part of your kitchen!
I think you could have fit a few more things in the machine, though especially if you flipped the flex-o-dividers down in the top rack! It would be cool to see if your Kenwhirl would have held as much or if it had some extra room left over with the same load.
Sometimes my WP DU950 takes all the 18 has in it with some room to spare. But it does take nearly 2x as long to wash the dishes and doesn't dry them anywhere near as well as my 18 or any other KA I happen to be using!
BTW, that model does not have a target temp for the final rinse EXCEPT for the final rinse in SANI Cycle so it may not always hit 150 when it runs any other cycle. It would be more a result in your incoming hot water temperature and has nothing to do with the machine at all. But 150 isn't so bad.
As you and I discussed before, I use the Sani Cycle on mine because my water cools down so much as it runs thru the slab of my house especially at during the cooler months!
I know you will enjoy the 18 as much as any of us do and use it in good health!
Eddie
Good Luck with your new machine.
I love my '22' series in my kitchen. It is my daily driver.
Good Luck with your new machine.
I love my '22' series in my kitchen. It is my daily driver.
Even more surprising is that it is late 1970s technology. I bought mine in 1977. On Normal Wash, the timer stops at the increment in the 3rd rinse where the SANI rinse would heat. In that increment, both heaters are turned on for 1400 watts of water heating, but there is no hold, it is only the timer clicking into and out of the increment where, if SANI rinse were selected, the timer motor would be de-energized until the thermostat would close at the SANI rinse temperature, which, I believe is closer to 155F. It is not a sterilizing rinse and does not carry National Sanitation Foundation credentialing. When CR tested this machine, they noted that only items on the lower rack came close to the 155 temperature. It's rather moot if you use chlorinated dishwashing compound and have water at or above 140F. During wash, one 700 watt heater in the sheath is energized. In the KA front loading machines from the 15 to the 18 series, only the Superba had the water heating element. This is why only the 18 Superba could offer the Soak 'n Scrub cycle where it alternated circulating and heating the water. The supplemental water heating during the main wash is a nice feature since the hot water sits cooling in the pipes during the 7 minute prewash. The cooled water that fills the main wash gets a bit of help from this little bit of heating, but if you take the temperature of the water during each drain, you will see how low the water temps actually run, even when the machine is supplied with water over 140F. I'm surprised because I heavily insulated the tank and then insulated the dishwasher's under counter home with Fiberglass panels on 3 sides. I usually run the SANI rinse cycle to improve the drying of plastics. The water heating usually adds between 5 and 8 minutes to the cycle.
Tom, is that SANI rinse at 155 in the later machines after the 18 series? The sani temp thermostat in the 18 is 180 and I've checked the water in the machine and it's pretty close to 180 when it kicks back into circulation. When that 180'ish water hits the cooler dishes, it would certainly cool off quickly, but I guess that's better than a final rinse of far less with cooler water in the lines coming in for that final rinse. You are lucky that that you have hotter water at the sink, with my Whirlpool water heater (blech!) and the long run from the tank to the tap in the kitchen, the water cools considerably depsite insulated pipes. The sani cycle hold time for my 18 was more like 15-20 minutes to reach the 180 cutoff. I wish the water was circulating during the sani-heating phase, but that would probably add about an hour to the cycle time at 180 degrees and the lower wattage heater.
A friend of mine ran an assisted living facility for a small number of people, we replaced a beat-to-within an inch of it's life KDS-17 with a Maytag in the kitchen. Back when they put in the KA, that was the only machine that was acceptable by the board of health for that application and met sanitation qualifications. Now there are many to choose from, Maytag just happened to be the least expensive. When his grandfathered exemptions were taken away by the state in the old house he ran the facility in and he closed the home, we moved that nearly new Maytag to his house.
A friend of mine ran an assisted living facility for a small number of people, we replaced a beat-to-within an inch of it's life KDS-17 with a Maytag in the kitchen. Back when they put in the KA, that was the only machine that was acceptable by the board of health for that application and met sanitation qualifications. Now there are many to choose from, Maytag just happened to be the least expensive. When his grandfathered exemptions were taken away by the state in the old house he ran the facility in and he closed the home, we moved that nearly new Maytag to his house.
KitchenAid!
Hi Tom,
I am surprised at the drop in temperature in the 18 series. I also thought in the 18 that the sani rinse was supposed to heat to 180. Is that false advertising? I can't figure out why they changed the 19 series so drastically. They should have just made the main wash heat to 140. They never did get rid of that first water fill heating in the rest of the models. Doesn't make sense. In the ISE models they had the best system. It would always heat the main wash to 140 unless you used energy saver wash. I don't know why KA didn't do the same thing.
Peter
Hi Tom,
I am surprised at the drop in temperature in the 18 series. I also thought in the 18 that the sani rinse was supposed to heat to 180. Is that false advertising? I can't figure out why they changed the 19 series so drastically. They should have just made the main wash heat to 140. They never did get rid of that first water fill heating in the rest of the models. Doesn't make sense. In the ISE models they had the best system. It would always heat the main wash to 140 unless you used energy saver wash. I don't know why KA didn't do the same thing.
Peter
KitchenAid Series!
Hi Greg,
The 19 series heated the first and last rinse to 150 also running the heater at 700 watts during the main wash. All were sani cycles. The 20 series heated the first rinse to 150 and only the last rinse if you selected the sani cycle. But in the 20 series the sani cycle was supposed to be 165 in the last rinse. By the 22 series they changed the first water fill to heat to 140.
Peter
Hi Greg,
The 19 series heated the first and last rinse to 150 also running the heater at 700 watts during the main wash. All were sani cycles. The 20 series heated the first rinse to 150 and only the last rinse if you selected the sani cycle. But in the 20 series the sani cycle was supposed to be 165 in the last rinse. By the 22 series they changed the first water fill to heat to 140.
Peter
Oh, oh, isnt' Kenwhirl more upset now that the "other" KA is there?
toploader55
Well-known member
Yes, he's up set
Kenwhirl has been set in the back ground. He hasn't been used in two weeks. KDS (which will get a name later,) has been the daily driver. Can't get enough of that machine. KD2 which has just been restored is parked right next to KDS and has just completed her 3 rd water test and is fabulous.Flow thru Drying fan just humming away. NO LEAKS. !!!!!!!!
I don't know what the distinction is between the genders but it's a gut feeling. KD2 is Kaydee, Mobile Maid is Maidee, Kenwhirl is a guy, And KDS I guess just has to be named Superba as she is.That's just how I feel.
Kenwhirl has been set in the back ground. He hasn't been used in two weeks. KDS (which will get a name later,) has been the daily driver. Can't get enough of that machine. KD2 which has just been restored is parked right next to KDS and has just completed her 3 rd water test and is fabulous.Flow thru Drying fan just humming away. NO LEAKS. !!!!!!!!
I don't know what the distinction is between the genders but it's a gut feeling. KD2 is Kaydee, Mobile Maid is Maidee, Kenwhirl is a guy, And KDS I guess just has to be named Superba as she is.That's just how I feel.
sudsmaster
Well-known member
Just picked up a black KDS-18 tonight. Well-used, but still functional (according to the seller). Hey, it cost me as much in gas to go get her as the selling price ;-). It did come with an owner's manual.
There's a bit of rust around one of the mounts for the sump heater. Don't think it leaks, just yet, but I'm thinking it may need some preventative treatment to try to keep it from getting worse. Wonder if JB Weld would hold at 180F...? Worst case it will be a parts donor for a fresher unit. It is a looker from the outside, though, the black, chrome, stainless, and faux burl wood grain look great.
There's a bit of rust around one of the mounts for the sump heater. Don't think it leaks, just yet, but I'm thinking it may need some preventative treatment to try to keep it from getting worse. Wonder if JB Weld would hold at 180F...? Worst case it will be a parts donor for a fresher unit. It is a looker from the outside, though, the black, chrome, stainless, and faux burl wood grain look great.
KDS18
Rich,
Best of luck with the KDS18. Is it possible to scan down the user manual?
Peter
Rich,
Best of luck with the KDS18. Is it possible to scan down the user manual?
Peter
The rust around the heater mounts is just surface staining. You don't have to worry about it going through the tank. KA used the Tri-Dura porcelain and underneath the white layer is a dark blue that is actually much more durable; sort of like the old Maytag tubs where the white layer of porcelain would rub off in the area opposide the high fins on the Gyrator, but the dark blue porcelain underneath lasted and lasted.
Greg, I should have been clearer. It does heat the water to around 180, but it does not heat the dishes to much more than 155-165 in the lower rack. It's plenty hot to deform cheap plastic in the top rack, but my Rubbermaid 1 quart sippy bottles have survived years of washing in the lower rack. I was very pleasantly surprised that they also survive the dry cycle in the Kenmore with just the heating element under the bottom rack. The first couple of times I used it, I only left the dry heat on for a few minutes then pushed the Power Miser button. As they kept coming out OK, I kept increasing the length of time the heating element was on until I found that they survive the whole heated dry cycle.
For the water temperatures, I have one of those instant read thermometers and I bleed the hot water lines before each fill up to the main wash with the 18 to make sure that the water is at least 140F. I'm usually washing something or cleaning the counters or stove so I make use of the water. The pipes are insulated. If nothing else, I run the water into a container and use it for other things so it's not wasted.
I was amazed at the heat loss in the hot water standing in the pipes in houses in Florida where the pipes go through the concrete slab. Unless the hot water line is purged before each fill, the dishwasher fills with only mildly warm water and in some cases, that's with those special plastic pipes.
Since the Kenmore Ultra Wash has the high temp wash option, I sometimes start it with only warm water if I have items in it with starchy food soils. Then I bleed the water line until it's 140F for the main wash and let it heat. It adds a good bit of time to the cycle to heat the wash as it scrubs along, but it sure cleans well.
Yesterday, in John's shop, I saw an older TOL Maytag with ss tub and door with the integrated controls and that big handle that swoops out in an arc. The tank had a leak that Jason fixed and the frame is whacked, but if the customer who sent it in is in any mood to get rid of it, I will take the door and buy a ss tub Maytag and use that door on it. It still has the Quick Wash cycle which has mostly disappeared on the models I see in the stores. Somehow I think I will eventually get my hands on a machine like that if not that one.
Greg, I should have been clearer. It does heat the water to around 180, but it does not heat the dishes to much more than 155-165 in the lower rack. It's plenty hot to deform cheap plastic in the top rack, but my Rubbermaid 1 quart sippy bottles have survived years of washing in the lower rack. I was very pleasantly surprised that they also survive the dry cycle in the Kenmore with just the heating element under the bottom rack. The first couple of times I used it, I only left the dry heat on for a few minutes then pushed the Power Miser button. As they kept coming out OK, I kept increasing the length of time the heating element was on until I found that they survive the whole heated dry cycle.
For the water temperatures, I have one of those instant read thermometers and I bleed the hot water lines before each fill up to the main wash with the 18 to make sure that the water is at least 140F. I'm usually washing something or cleaning the counters or stove so I make use of the water. The pipes are insulated. If nothing else, I run the water into a container and use it for other things so it's not wasted.
I was amazed at the heat loss in the hot water standing in the pipes in houses in Florida where the pipes go through the concrete slab. Unless the hot water line is purged before each fill, the dishwasher fills with only mildly warm water and in some cases, that's with those special plastic pipes.
Since the Kenmore Ultra Wash has the high temp wash option, I sometimes start it with only warm water if I have items in it with starchy food soils. Then I bleed the water line until it's 140F for the main wash and let it heat. It adds a good bit of time to the cycle to heat the wash as it scrubs along, but it sure cleans well.
Yesterday, in John's shop, I saw an older TOL Maytag with ss tub and door with the integrated controls and that big handle that swoops out in an arc. The tank had a leak that Jason fixed and the frame is whacked, but if the customer who sent it in is in any mood to get rid of it, I will take the door and buy a ss tub Maytag and use that door on it. It still has the Quick Wash cycle which has mostly disappeared on the models I see in the stores. Somehow I think I will eventually get my hands on a machine like that if not that one.
sudsmaster
Well-known member
Tom,
Thanks. It's surface rust on the rear mount. The front mount is a bit worse, I see some rust bubbling there. I'll try to snap a few photos when I get home tonight to illustrate the situation. Overall, the dishwasher is very attractive, but shows signs of wear. Chrome thinned out on handle, for example. Couple of lower rack prongs are broken off, nothing major. Upper rack in very good shape.
Pete,
I'll see what I can do with a scan. Might take a few days.
Thanks. It's surface rust on the rear mount. The front mount is a bit worse, I see some rust bubbling there. I'll try to snap a few photos when I get home tonight to illustrate the situation. Overall, the dishwasher is very attractive, but shows signs of wear. Chrome thinned out on handle, for example. Couple of lower rack prongs are broken off, nothing major. Upper rack in very good shape.
Pete,
I'll see what I can do with a scan. Might take a few days.
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